Stuck plug on old control box.

[24fan4life]

I have a local garage upgrading a few things on my HMMWV, and everything is almost done. The only problem is he can't get the top plug off from the old control box. He said it felt like it broke free, but it's just spinning, and not coming up. The old box was acting up once in a while, so I bought a new smart control box for it.

Any ideas?

 

[TOBASH]

When the box is working, you should not mess with it.

Now you need to replace the box, the glow plug temperature sensor and possibly the plug.

Drop the old box, cut the wires, and see if you can save the plug.

 

[Milcommoguy]

It's going to be one of those days.....How can that be?? Spinning the right part ? Shown by red pen.

Righty tighty - lefty loosey with a little pulling up and make the sound AUHG.

Is this a New York Thing? CAMO

 

[papakb]

It never hurts to put a dollop of anti-oxidant grease on the face of the connector and the threads. It will keep it from oxidizing and helps exclude moisture from the pins. We used to use Dow Corning DC-4 on all of our connectors onboard ship and it's used throughout the aircraft industry.

 

[24fan4life]

If you did not read correctly, the old box was acting up once in a while, as in it was getting ready to crap out. I already have a new box and controller on hand, so I don't have to get anything except a new plug. The new box and controller are a matching set. The garage mechanic was spinning the correct part. The plug is corroded to the box receptacle. He got the plug torn down to be able to see it needs replaced though.

The next thing is, can I get just the plug from one of the sites, or do I need the whole engine harness?

Thank you for papakb for taking my situation seriously, and the new plug will get the proper grease before installation.

 

[papakb]

That plug is an industry standard amphenol connector. The part number is stamped into the side of it It should look something like this: MS3106-24-11s where the MS3106 is the connector style, the 24 is the size of the body and the 11s is the pin layout and tells you it's a female connector.

Eriks has them: https://www.eriksmilitarysurplus.com/coforhmprcob.html

 

[24fan4life]

Thank you very much.

 

[NDT]

That connector is no simple task to solder on. If your mechanic is not skilled as an electronics tech, don’t bother buying just the connector.

 

[Milcommoguy]

I have a local garage upgrading a few things on my HMMWV, and everything is almost done. The only problem is he can't get the top plug off from the old control box. He said it felt like it broke free, but it's just spinning, and not coming up. The old box was acting up once in a while, so I bought a new smart control box for it.

Any ideas?

I read exactly the words you wrote. That left ME with the image someone couldn't remove it. Sometimes the simplest thing turn into the biggest problem. Just trying to help.

So now i got... Truck is near by. You don"t work on you truck. It's almost done, like cooked, put a fork in it. Has only one problem. Mechanic's feels free, yet broke, spinning and can't get up. Old box acts up now and then. Money burning a hole in the pocket, ran out and snagged a new one.

Now it makes perfect sense, scents, cents to me, CAMO

Another Paul Harvey moment..........

 

[TOBASH]

Ultimately, YOU need to know your rig. Leaving it to a mechanic is bad.

Simple corrosion might have been your problem.

If you have a keyed ignition, that is also a problem and can cause starting issues.

A pre-lifter fuel pump can cause issues.

Pulling apart a plug is not hard and a little WD-40 soak might help. Maybe even a tap from a small rubber hammer.

Milcommguy is trying to point out your errors. You bought a thousand dollar part and you're not sure you even needed it.

 

[24fan4life]

The mechanic worked on HMMWV's when he was in the service. He just didn't know if the plug or harness was available, and didn't want to screw it up. Once he saw the corrosion was the problem, he let me know as soon as he found out, and luckily there was one decent person who let me know where the part number would be located, and also posted a link.

I know most of the vehicle, and what I don't know I read about or ask first. The box was the problem. It was drawing amperage when it's off, on cold starts sometimes it doesn't cycle the glow plugs, flashing codes, etc.. I've done my homework way before I even bought the new box, and it's one of the older boxes that had all of these kinds of problems. I'm sure the corrosion problem didn't help either.

I'm glad I took it to the shop that I did, when I got it inspected to get it registered here in NY. The mechanic saw it, and said it took him back to working on them, and would be glad to work on it anytime. That's the reason I'm having a mechanic working on it. On top of that my work schedule doesn't give me much time to complete everything that needed done, nor do I have a garage to work out of, and I didn't want to have it torn down for who knows how long it would have taken me to complete it.

I have done work on it before. Oil/filter change, inspected other fluids, checked ph and specific gravity of the coolant system, hub inspection, gear lube change, made and installed the supplemental ground harness, replaced a failed steering pump cooler, bled the steering/brake system (what a hassle that was), and a few other things. Most of these things I looked up on here, or asked for help with.

Making comments about where I'm from, having to do with possibly trying to spin the wrong part, or the wrong direction, and creating a commentary on what I posted is in no way helping. Neither was assuming I was replacing a good working part. Milcommguy didn't even talk about the box possibly not being bad. That was you.

Tell me what would have happened if I left the corrosion go? I'm sure it wouldn't have fixed itself, now would it? If I didn't even try to have it replaced, how would I even know if there was a corrosion problem? The corrosion inside the plug wasn't even visible until he started tearing into the plug to see if he could get some penetrating oil into it. Until then we thought it was just the threads being corroded. I'm sure the corrosion has been there long enough to eat away at the pins. What then, tear the old box down to replace the receptacle? I wish the box was good, and I didn't have to replace it. I'd have that money in my pocket still, but I bought what was needed, and not just thrown at a problem that I didn't look into first.

I asked for help, because I couldn't find anything on here about the problem he was having. Not to have Heckle and Jeckle throwing their 2¢ in, because they thought they knew what was wrong.

 

[24fan4life]

That connector is no simple task to solder on. If your mechanic is not skilled as an electronics tech, don’t bother buying just the connector.

Thank you for your concern on the difficulty on soldering the plug in. The mechanic has already inspected the plug setup, and said it would be a lot easier for him to install a new plug than having to install the whole harness, and didn't want me wasting money on a whole new harness.

 

[TOBASH]

I know most of the vehicle, and what I don't know I read about or ask first. The box was the problem. It was drawing amperage when it's off, on cold starts sometimes it doesn't cycle the glow plugs, flashing codes, etc.. I've done my homework way before I even bought the new box, and it's one of the older boxes that had all of these kinds of problems. I'm sure the corrosion problem didn't help either.

Long response that is kinda saying nothing.

You "know the vehicle" yet you are saying an older PCB was flashing codes and sometimes didn't cycle the plugs, and you never considered the corrosion itself was interfering with glow plug cycling. You never considered corrosion elsewhere screwing up the system while the box was potentially OK... Hmmmmm.

Just quoting your response.

I bypassed my PCB entirely. I did so with the help of milcommguy, because Cam O. is a great guy who is knowledgeable.

My ignition system is now robust and easy to maintain, ALL BECAUSE OF milcommguy.

You might not like his response, but he was on point.

Vitriol like what you put out does not give anyone incentive to show you little tricks that can save thousands.

Corrosion is an easy fix, and you didn't need to trash and replace your plug. I think you might have worked on your rig, but you will still have a problem after the PCB to EESS change, because ultimately you and the mechanic might not understand as much as you think. Case in point... As you're Hellbent on replacing the plug... It is faster and easier and more effective to contact a site sponsor and purchase an old working pre-wired plug from Eastern Surplus or 86HUMV than buy a new plug with new leads and solder it all up.

Better to accept criticism and tread softly prior to deriding others who might know and might have seen more. Ultimately THERE IS ALWAYS someone who knows more about something, so remain humble.

IMHO.

 

[Crapgame]

What is so difficult about soldering PCB Amphenol cannon plug? I have the harness side of an M1114 engine harness I need to replace the cannon plug.

 

[TOBASH]

What is so difficult about soldering PCB Amphenol cannon plug? I have the harness side of an M1114 engine harness I need to replace the cannon plug.

Hi Crapgame. Love the Kelly's Heros reference. Been meaning to tell you.

Easier/faster/cheaper to take a used plug with factory pre-crimped leads already attached to long sections of wire. Then just solder wire to wire without needing to crimp leads to wires and embed the leads in the rubber of the new plug. IMHO.

These are used vehicles. Why buy a new plug when it is a low wear item that should last forever, (unless you happen to live in Southern New York)?

In Brooklyn and Staten Island and Queens, (and probably the rest of the USA) the plugs don't seem to have issues, and my friends and I seem to be able to maintain them without replacing them. Maybe it's the fluoride in our water, or perhaps it's because we have better bagels. Mostly I bet it's because we also regularly read TM's and service our own rigs.

This guy has electrical issues, and rather than finding them and fixing them he placed an auxiliary ground kit. He placed a Band-Aide over the real problem without fixing the real issue. Then when that didn't fix the issue he spent a gob of $ on a new EESS due to his mechanic's whim. The OP states he has corrosion but never cleaned it out to determine if that alone was the problem. He and his mechanic have not proven the fault is not elsewhere in the system.

I just received an amusing PM from a friend and member who has elected to stay out of this fray. His feeling is that the OP will spend more $ in mechanic fees than had he just replaced a section of harness with a good one. I absolutely agree... K.I.S.S.

K.I.S.S. - Read the TM, know your vehicle, listen to members on this forum, find the ground issues, don't rely on an aux ground cable system, and don't replace $#!t unless it needs replacing.

This guy kicked a wasps' nest and now all Hell has broken loose. Needs new plug and wires, when he isn't even sure that was the issue.

Then he got upset for being called out on his faults. So now I'm being critical of his actions when there are better and cheaper used and functional alternatives.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

The connectors on the box is very crappy aluminum and strips out super easy.
if the threads get buggered up at all on the initial install, it will only get worse.
The plug is steel, the box connector is aluminum, so they weld themselves together via corrosion,

 

[Milcommoguy]

Not going to turn this into a piss match with any SS, new or old. I responded to your five sentence post # 1 " Stuck plug on old control box" biased on what was stated. Not knowing anyone experience and sometimes question my own, the statements made is all I have to go off of.

"Asking for ideas"... Well that's what I provided to remove the connector. Lately, there has been more sales with new SS that are looking for 'Needs Help" with this or that. This is to be expected. Good "ol boys" with 'ol toys" That's the hobby of a green car club. Doing it a long long time here.

Now if you have been around awhile... I will poke a little fun at some of the posts, but not hurt anyone's feeling. More of a shop banter back and forth, add a little fun to the dropping of wrenches, banging of head, and ATF in the face. NOT funny.

OK... there's MY "sideways" apology to the SS gang. Get over it and no throwing of wenches.

Later on it was indicated "corroded" That one word changes the whole picture PAINTED.... in my little mine.

My response would have been more appropriate...Disconnect the batteries, get a bigger hammer, one that runs on air. (see funny) Dig deeper to see what up.

That connector has power ALL the time and water (salt water especially) will eat away at it quickly. While ?? water proof, poor maintenance will result in this problem, no matter how much one goops it up. Bet a donut the box inside look just like the connector.

If there is some wacky action, thing-a-ma bob, what the heck or how the heck does this work,... Say so ! with a little more detailed info,. Maybe a picture, proper description AND a 1000 plus years of experience will come forth. No need to buy, read or look in the TM's.

I am SURE the SS brotherhood, guy's and gal's are here to help and get one up and running or to present a better understanding what's under the hood.

I get it. These trucks didn't come with a bumper to bumper warranty, unlimited millage, service center around the corner and most all cases "NO license plate" opps

The details are in the presentation or it becomes a guessing game, and lately "it's game on", CAMO

 

[NDT]

What is so difficult about soldering PCB Amphenol cannon plug? I have the harness side of an M1114 engine harness I need to replace the cannon plug.

Well first of all you are supposed to remove the pins from the connector body before you solder them using a special tool that nobody has. Then you must properly prep the end of the wire such that there is absolutely no corrosion of any type on all the strands or the solder won't take. Then you have to flux and pre tin the wire and shape it so it fits inside the pin cavity. Then using a very high power soldering iron, you have to heat the pin and wire and add more flux and solder such that there is a little solder swimming pool and the solder wicks up the pin and wire strands, being careful not to overheat the wire and damage the insulation. Oh then repeat 8 more times. Then lube up the pins and press them back in the correct holes in the body. it's a huge pain especially with the heavy gauge wire. if you end up with a cold solder joint, then intermittent no-starts etc will haunt you forever.

The pins are not crimped on. I don't agree that using a used pigtail and splicing it on an in place harness is a good idea. That is not good practice.

 

[TOBASH]

NDT, you're a great guy, but you and I will need to agree to disagree that a used serviceable pigtail is a bad idea if this plug is farked.

Sorry brother but there is no down side to splicing wires correctly with high temperature solder or crimp on terminals that are then soldered and screwed together and waterproofed. Several decades of restoration work here with solid results for 3 decades.

Heck, you could even attach with high amperage watertight connectors or with high temperature solder and shrinkable spaghetti to keep the water out.

The system only needs to accept 150 AMPs for the glow plugs.

FYI, same amperage and wire sizes inside a PCB/EESS. I just rewired the internals of my bypassed PCB and I have a solid unit with no issues. 8 ga. wires with crimped on and then soldered copper fittings held to the solenoids and other wires with screws.

These are thirty year old vehicles with old parts that won't always be available, and just like on the antique cars I have restored, chasing your tail to get unobtanium parts or tools gets old real fast. Re-using old plugs with hidden properly executed splices is sometimes all you got.

EDIT - This is becoming a debate so I'm gonna step away. Good luck to the OP

 

[Crapgame]

Well first of all you are supposed to remove the pins from the connector body before you solder them using a special tool that nobody has. Then you must properly prep the end of the wire such that there is absolutely no corrosion of any type on all the strands or the solder won't take. Then you have to flux and pre tin the wire and shape it so it fits inside the pin cavity. Then using a very high power soldering iron, you have to heat the pin and wire and add more flux and solder such that there is a little solder swimming pool and the solder wicks up the pin and wire strands, being careful not to overheat the wire and damage the insulation. Oh then repeat 8 more times. Then lube up the pins and press them back in the correct holes in the body. it's a huge pain especially with the heavy gauge wire. if you end up with a cold solder joint, then intermittent no-starts etc will haunt you forever.

The pins are not crimped on. I don't agree that using a used pigtail and splicing it on an in place harness is a good idea. That is not good practice.

The connector housing itself on mine is what got damaged, all but 2 of the pins are still soldered to the harness., brand new plug came with the pins pre-set in the rubber spacer. And, one of our local M998 owners in a local base contractor who builds cannon plugs during the week. But his health issues took a dive deeper than mine for the time being, possibly a hip replacement, so I didn't want to bother him with it, I'd rather he spend his time healing up, I know the challenges I deal with on a daily basis with mine, often having to pay the invalid tax as opposed to idiot tax. He actually bought the very HMMWV he used in Afghanistan from GP. I guess he processed it for return shipping to CONUS, was told it was being DRMOed so he kept an eye out for it, snagged it at auction, wants to give it to his son when he's old enough. One of the most interesting ownerships I've seen so far.

My 6.5l GEP-T isn't even an immediate priority, likely a winter project since I no longer have my Pop to go visit during Christmas. I at least have everything on hand to do it, except for the Amphenol tool to push the pins in and out of the rubber bushing spacer. Priority right now is 30x30 metal building and the poured slab with cast edge for the kit., first two storm systems of the season already coming, I can park only one GMV or the Toyota FJ in my garage. Then I have some equipment I no longer can use so am working a horse-trade of the equipment for the 6.5l NA to GEP-T swap by a ALARNG wrench, all the 4L80E swap bits I scrounged I'll offer up with the 1994 M1097A1 when I sell it, maybe along with the 6.5l NA short block.