Syn gear oil in a 3053A

[ken]

I know what your thinking, we've hashed this out a million times. After doing a search of old posts i didn't come to the conclusion i was looking for.
What i'm wondering is, who is using synthetic gear oil in thier tranny? And for how long? About how many miles? Any trouble? Likes/ dislikes? What brand are you using?
I've used GL-5 in mine since about 1999. I haven't had any thouble. But now i'm thinking of switiching to Mobile 1. Any advise?

 

[jwaller]

make sure it has the rating for safe with yellow metal and your fine. if you read all those old posts then you know the one I'm talking about but I cant seem to remember it right now. MT1 I think.

 

[CGarbee]

You are correct about the MT1 rating being the additional bit to ensure that it is yellow metal safe...
GL5/MT1 is good...

 

[JDToumanian]

I'm using Chevron DELO ESI 80w-90 in the axles and transfer case, it is rated GL-4/5 MT-1 and MIL-PRF-2105E.

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/nafl/trucking/content/prodspecs.shtm

An MT-1 rating means that the oil will not cause corrosion of yellow metal, but if the oil has extreme-pressure additives the synchros will have to work harder to slow down the gears to allow engagement. So for the transmission I went with Red Line Synthetic's MT-90. It's an 85w90 oil specifically designed for synchronized manual transmissions.

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/6.pdf

I've got around 1,000 miles on the oil so far, and the transmission shifts very smoothly and is not noisy. We'll see... Some guys reported their transmissions failing after switching to synthetics, but I don't see how the two are connected. FWIW, I think the DELO (or any other brand rated GL-4/5 MT-1 and MIL-PRF-2105E) would have been fine to use in the transmission as well... maybe even better for the gears and bearings (preventing the problem of 2nd gear welding itself to the shaft?) thanks to it's extreme-pressure additives - At the expense of the synchros, which may experience increased wear due to having to fight those same extreme-pressure additives. I think for the transmission, any oil you choose will be a compromise one way or another.



Regards,
Jon

 

[clinto]

... Some guys reported their transmissions failing after switching to synthetics, but I don't see how the two are connected.

I have no idea if this is applicable to big truck transmissions, but I know for a fact the Chrysler A833 4speed can't take synthetics-

I built a 23 spline for my Road Runner, filled it up full of redline and in less than a thousand miles, what I poured out of it looked like pure brass. Literally.

What I was told by two Chrysler Engineers (retired) was that the design on the A833 synchro is such that the super thin synthetics can not drain out from behind the blocking ring.........and it is so thin that it doesn't all get forced out during the shift, thus causing the brass blocking ring to not do it's job.

I hope I am explaining this correctly, as it was about 10 or 11 years ago and my memory might be leaving out a key phrase...

Mopar Action Magazine has written about this and advised readers not to use the synthetics, I am sure you can google this.

I rebuilt the transmission with all new everything (from a parts tranny with busted mounting ears), filled it up with old school dinosaur oil and proceeded to put a good 100K miles of full throttle upshifting, clutch dumping madness on it and it still doesn't grind. Fluid is clean.

Just my

 

[devilman96]

Something you may want to consider in swapping oils is doing testing. Pull a sample of your current oils and do a base line tests to get an idea of the metals and so on... Change your fluids and then do another test at say 300-500 miles and then again at 1000 (which will take a while I know). This will eliminate ANY guess work to your questions and tell if it is helping, not working, or having little effect for the added cost of the product.

I am running Shell Spirax S 85-140 which is a full synthetic and meets GL5, MT-1 and Mil PRF-2105E. I have commercial petroleum accounts so I didn't select this fluid from a Napa or auto store, I specifically went to my vendors looking for a synthetic product that would meet and exceed the needs and requirements of the truck from front to back. It was a careful process and took a week or so of phone calls, data sheet reviews and discussions comparing products, weights, grades, specs, etc.

Part of my reason for swapping oils was longevity... and part of it was due to synthetics ability to repel water. A true synthetic will not mix with water like dyno based oils do. Not that I plan on floating my truck through a river but in a forwarding situation I have piece of mind with water contamination. I know I can take on a good amount of water and not risk loosing the oil's lubrication properties.

I will be doing my own testing here over the next 6 months for oil sampling but its always a good idea to get a few others involved so there is a broader base line and data to draw from. Test kits are available from Napa under filter part number 4077 and are in the 14-20 dollar range.

 

[No.2Diesel]

Yo clinto,

I run 50 weight in my A833 overdrive daily driver Vailiant and my bro runs 10W40 in his BB stroker Charger A833. He also has an OD A833 in his Fury that runs 50 weight. My deuce tranny runs 85W90 as well as t-case and axles.

 

[ken]

D-MAN. You hit the nail on the head!. My main concern was for water. I've had a brass ring (from a broken 3053a) sitting in a bowl of mobile 1 for 6 months now. It doesen't appear to have changed it a bit. Oil is still clear and the ring doesen't seem affected. I've had to ford deep water a few times and water allways seems to get in something. The humidity is very high here also and condensation will turn the oil milkey if the truck sits too long. If i drive it alot this isn't a problem. I'm tring to come up with a oil that would tolerate some mositure. It will be one less problem to deal with during the next hurricane/tropical strom. I use boat trailor wheelbearing grease in everything. It doesen't wash out when the truck goes swimming. Thanks for your help!

 

[silence]

I don't know a lot about oil other than most older trannys shift easier with GL-4. I do however see what is going on in many NP 205 transfer cases. Cases with synthetic oil are coming in with extream bearing wear. 3/8 inch end play in the front output shaft has become quite common but only in the boxes using synthetic.

 

[JDToumanian]

This is an old thread! ....My post above referenced a transmission that is, sadly, no longer among the living. The replacement has been filled with Chevron DELO Synthetic Transmission Fluid SAE 50, which is in line with Spicer recommendations rather than military. So far, so good. I do notice cooler temps....

 

[silence]

The thread may be dated but there are any number of people out there who don't do any research. They just hear talk that this or that synthetic is the best to use. They get to the parts store and see the $35 a quart price tag and decide to buy something else.

(EXAMPLE)
Man buys a $600 used New Venture 5 speed. Does not want to pay $75 for gear lube. He reads the information on the bottle of cheaper oil that says the specs are compatible. 6 months later the transmission is junk and he does not have a clue as to what he did.

You mentioned Chevron. Chevron has a reputation for driving the big spicers a half million miles with no problem. That oil, as good as it is, will void the warranty for some new venture transmissions.

It’s been a few years since I've seen any new data from Spicer. Through out the 80s Spicer was still recommending motor oil for the older gearboxes. Not just because of the yellow metals but something to do with engineering. Most information available now from automakers and petroleum producers does not apply to anything more than 10 to 20 years old.

 

[m16ty]

Y'all can play with whatever oil you like in the deuce trans. Myself, I'm going to stick with what's been run in these trans for the last 50 years. GL-1.

 

[FormerNewMVGuy]

The thread may be dated but there are any number of people out there who don't do any research. They just hear talk that this or that synthetic is the best to use. They get to the parts store and see the $35 a quart price tag and decide to buy something else.

(EXAMPLE)
Man buys a $600 used New Venture 5 speed. Does not want to pay $75 for gear lube. He reads the information on the bottle of cheaper oil that says the specs are compatible. 6 months later the transmission is junk and he does not have a clue as to what he did.

You mentioned Chevron. Chevron has a reputation for driving the big spicers a half million miles with no problem. That oil, as good as it is, will void the warranty for some new venture transmissions.

It’s been a few years since I've seen any new data from Spicer. Through out the 80s Spicer was still recommending motor oil for the older gearboxes. Not just because of the yellow metals but something to do with engineering. Most information available now from automakers and petroleum producers does not apply to anything more than 10 to 20 years old.

Yeah, my new venture only get s" castrol syntorq Lt"
in it, no matter what the cost!