T-1A Jayhawk - "TTTS" (Mitsubishi/Beech/Raytheon/Hawker)

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

This thread is dedicated to the T-1A Jayhawk. Originally designed to fulfill the USAF's RFQ (Request For Proposals) for the TTTS (Tanker Transport Training System) concept of a cost-efficient way to train pilots for HEAVY aircraft. The idea was to use an aircraft with flight ops costs as low as $1000/flight-hour instead of an actual C-5 or KC-10 with ops costs upwards of $50,000/flight-hour (late-1970's cost estimates).

Share here your photos, stories, experiences, links and other resources.

Here's the first of several WIKI links for your education and enjoyment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raytheon_T-1_Jayhawk

To augment your historical background on this aircraft, you can also look at these links relating to the plane's genetics....

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_MU-300_Diamond

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_400

More on Mitsubishi's executive aircraft project(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_MU-2

And where would we be without the obligatory PICTURES . . .

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Very personally, I am particularly fond of this aircraft. From the summer of 1979 until Mitsubishi transferred production to Beech in 1986 I was on the avionics and electrical engineering design team that helped earn this aircraft (and other versions by Mitsubishi) it's Type Certification. I dedicated 7 years of my engineering career to seeing this plane fly - and prove itself for the TTTS project. However, Congress would not authorize the USAF to purchase the plane since it was branded MITSUBISHI ! After all, Mitsubishi had built the ZERO's that bombed Pearl Harbor - how politically incorrect would that be?!?!?
So, a plan was hatched to transfer the design and production to Beech (later becoming Raytheon, then Hawker). Within months of re-branding the EXACT SAME PLANE, congress excitedly authorized the deal. Little did the politicians realize that the airframes were still being built in Nagoya, Japan, crated and shipped to Beech Aircraft in Witchita, Kansas (instead of going to Mitsubishi Aircraft International (a US Company) in San Angelo, Texas) for final assembly, avionics installations and completion.

I was invited to follow the project to Kansas, but their offer was not favorable. Hence, I bid farewell to this awesome aircraft but still follow her closely. In fact, they can be seen almost daily above San Angelo as they use our Municipal Airport as one of their training waypoints. Often they land here for lunch, fly over in multi-plane formations, and even do some HOT approaches. Gotta luv that training!!!
Our house sits directly under the normal glide-slope, and with her very unique engine sound (a somewhat high pitch, but not quite a whistle) I often dash outside and look up with a bit of pride, privileged to have been a part of her history.

 

[AZDeuce]

Glad you still get to enjoy "your baby." Man politicians are dense.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

This video was shot 2017-06-02 from our front yard. We are right at 7 miles from the threshold of the runway as they approach from the north. We often watch the landing gear being deployed on planes this size and larger.

Listen closely near the end of this short video and you'll hear that unique high tone of the engines... not quite a whistle.

FAA nearly halted final certification just before all the T's were crossed and I's dotted when they realized that nothing had been submitted for their review and approval regarding noise suppression insulation in the engine nacelles.
Well, Mitsubishi is a DIVERSE company with many specialties and technologies available within its many subsidiaries. With the help of their radio/audio engineers, they had designed nacelles that STRUCTURALLY suppress the engine noise. Little accordian-like spacers acting like high-frequency springs absorb the audible vibrations within the nacelles before they can be pulsed through and out of the outer nacelle skin. Thereby eliminating both the need for and the added weight of sound suppressing insulation, baffling or any vibration deadening by the addition of lead swatches inside the skin or other means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGwfnDT839Q&feature=youtu.be

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

They also come in BATTLESHIP GRAY....

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[adamsrib]

moved comments to USAFSS-ColdWarrior's thread

 

[adamsrib]

This thread is dedicated to the T-1A Jayhawk. Originally designed to fulfill the USAF's RFQ (Request For Proposals) for the TTTS (Tanker Transport Training System) concept of a cost-efficient way to train pilots for HEAVY aircraft. The idea was to use an aircraft with flight ops costs as low as $1000/flight-hour instead of an actual C-5 or KC-10 with ops costs upwards of $50,000/flight-hour (late-1970's cost estimates).

Share here your photos, stories, experiences, links and other resources.

Here's the first of several WIKI links for your education and enjoyment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raytheon_T-1_Jayhawk

To augment your historical background on this aircraft, you can also look at these links relating to the plane's genetics....

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_MU-300_Diamond

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_400

More on Mitsubishi's executive aircraft project(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_MU-2

And where would we be without the obligatory PICTURES . . .

View attachment 692221 . View attachment 692222

View attachment 692223 . View attachment 692224

View attachment 692225 . View attachment 692226

View attachment 692227 . View attachment 692228

View attachment 692229 . View attachment 692230

Very personally, I am particularly fond of this aircraft. From the summer of 1979 until Mitsubishi transferred production to Beech in 1986 I was on the avionics and electrical engineering design team that helped earn this aircraft (and other versions by Mitsubishi) it's Type Certification. I dedicated 7 years of my engineering career to seeing this plane fly - and prove itself for the TTTS project. However, Congress would not authorize the USAF to purchase the plane since it was branded MITSUBISHI ! After all, Mitsubishi had built the ZERO's that bombed Pearl Harbor - how politically incorrect would that be?!?!?
So, a plan was hatched to transfer the design and production to Beech (later becoming Raytheon, then Hawker). Within months of re-branding the EXACT SAME PLANE, congress excitedly authorized the deal. Little did the politicians realize that the airframes were still being built in Nagoya, Japan, crated and shipped to Beech Aircraft in Witchita, Kansas (instead of going to Mitsubishi Aircraft International (a US Company) in San Angelo, Texas) for final assembly, avionics installations and completion.

I was invited to follow the project to Kansas, but their offer was not favorable. Hence, I bid farewell to this awesome aircraft but still follow her closely. In fact, they can be seen almost daily above San Angelo as they use our Municipal Airport as one of their training waypoints. Often they land here for lunch, fly over in multi-plane formations, and even do some HOT approaches. Gotta luv that training!!!
Our house sits directly under the normal glide-slope, and with her very unique engine sound (a somewhat high pitch, but not quite a whistle) I often dash outside and look up with a bit of pride, privileged to have been a part of her history.

Loved your story. Not sure what brought me to the site today, but just thinking of my time on the project for the RFP response to the AirForce in 1989 and 1990, I had some good times at McDonald Douglas and worked hard with the proposals team to win the bid. I was the Sr. Principal Negotiator for McDonnel Douglas' RFP response to the AirForce for the TTTS program (soon thereafter Boeing), on the purchase of the TTTS program ... I was quite surprised to see this forum here. I left the program right after the AirForce awarded the program to Boeing, as it was going to be moved to St Louis, and I was in Long Beach. Not a fun move, so I left and went on to other stuff. It was a very interesting proposal effort, as the bid came to the "systems" division, the smallest segment of McDonnel Douglas. And, they had zero manufacturing input, with only 3% of the bid being accomplished by McDD, and the balance being purchased making McDD a Program Manager only...in essence. I loved what the gent said in the beginning of this thread that Congress rushed to approve the aircraft choice once it was transitioned to Beech. Everyone on the team snickered about that.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Loved your story. Not sure what brought me to the site today, but just thinking of my time on the project for the RFP response to the AirForce in 1989 and 1990, I had some good times at McDonald Douglas and worked hard with the proposals team to win the bid. I was the Sr. Principal Negotiator for McDonnel Douglas' RFP response to the AirForce for the TTTS program (soon thereafter Boeing), on the purchase of the TTTS program ... I was quite surprised to see this forum here. I left the program right after the AirForce awarded the program to Boeing, as it was going to be moved to St Louis, and I was in Long Beach. Not a fun move, so I left and went on to other stuff. It was a very interesting proposal effort, as the bid came to the "systems" division, the smallest segment of McDonnel Douglas. And, they had zero manufacturing input, with only 3% of the bid being accomplished by McDD, and the balance being purchased making McDD a Program Manager only...in essence. I loved what the gent said in the beginning of this thread that Congress rushed to approve the aircraft choice once it was transitioned to Beech. Everyone on the team snickered about that.

Welcome Aboard

Find a bunk, stow your gear, and prepare to get underway

As Chaplain here, your username surely caught my attention. A Biblical reference I suppose?

Thank you for chiming in on this thread. Yup. That's my story to the best of my aging recollection anyway. It's nice to hear your perspective as another player in "the game".

What I shared originally here was the short version of a very long and interwoven web of details, strategies, participants and decisions. Those events were very interesting to observe in real-time.

The Pentagon had for years tossed around ideas on how reduce training costs for the heavy aircraft. I hired on with MAI here in San Angelo at about the same time the first two flying prototypes of this plane arrived. In retrospect, i realize that very few of the American employees were aware of the military potentials being pursued for the MU-300. (Many Japanese workers where TDY here for the transfer of knowledge and to determine what design changes would be incorporated in Nagoya and which could be part of the final assembly here in the USA.)
Only because of my avionics and electrical design work did I start asking questions about odd circuits "going nowhere" but to an unused connector, or the presence of in-line connections which I later learned were for envisioned TTTS needs.
It also was odd to find in customer purchase contracts provisions resembling a "rebate program" for participation in flight data collection and occasional in-flight monitoring (by black boxes and/or human observation) which encouraged owners to help accumulate the massive flight test hours that the Pentagon would eventually require for Program consideration. Essentially, every airplane sold, if participating in the data collection, would be part of the test program leading toward the end goal. Basically, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (Japan) was well into the game before the game was ever announced.

Again, welcome aboard!

 

[M813rc]

My farm lies directly under an Air Force low-level navigation route, and I have the top of a hill, so I get the trainers out of Randolph AFB regularly coming over my place at around 200' (low enough that I can read their numbers, smell the exhaust and sometimes get waved at by the T-6 pilots). The T-6s push that 200' sometimes and come in a little lower!
Most times the aircraft come in pairs, and always going fast. The T-6s can sneak up on me, they are quiet until pretty close in, but the T-1s I can usually hear for a good 20-30 seconds before they arrive because of that very high pitched whine the engines make.
Others besides the Randolph trainers use the route, one aircraft that did not sneak up on me, but made a big impression was a C-130 that came blasting overhead. I've only seen two of those so far out here.
The Canadians also use the route occasionally, I've seen some of their T-6s (they call them Harvards) and one Challenger in Canadian markings.

The USAF don't come over every day, but I get Blackhawks, Apaches, and Chinooks from Ft Hood on a daily basis.

Cheers

 

[adamsrib]

Loved your story. Not sure what brought me to the site today, but just thinking of my time on the project for the RFP response to the AirForce in 1989 and 1990, I had some good times at McDonald Douglas and worked hard with the proposals team to win the bid. I was the Sr. Principal Negotiator for McDonnel Douglas' RFP response to the AirForce for the TTTS program (soon thereafter Boeing), on the purchase of the TTTS program ... I was quite surprised to see this forum here. I left the program right after the AirForce awarded the program to Boeing, as it was going to be moved to St Louis, and I was in Long Beach. Not a fun move, so I left and went on to other stuff. It was a very interesting proposal effort, as the bid came to the "systems" division, the smallest segment of McDonnel Douglas. And, they had zero manufacturing input, with only 3% of the bid being accomplished by McDD, and the balance being purchased making McDD a Program Manager only...in essence. I loved what the gent said in the beginning of this thread that Congress rushed to approve the aircraft choice once it was transitioned to Beech. Everyone on the team snickered about that.

Ha! It is a biblical reference...my late husband's email address was animateddirt...

It is amusing that at the same time this fray with buying the Mitsubishi aircraft engines for the TTTS trainers was happening, Lockheed in Burbank was selling P3's to Japan, and they had to have Congress' approval to do so, also using the same Mitsubishi engine and had not a single issue selling a fighter trainer (pre TTTS) to have those contracts.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

My farm lies directly under an Air Force low-level navigation route, and I have the top of a hill, so I get the trainers out of Randolph AFB regularly coming over my place at around 200' (low enough that I can read their numbers, smell the exhaust and sometimes get waved at by the T-6 pilots). The T-6s push that 200' sometimes and come in a little lower!
Most times the aircraft come in pairs, and always going fast. The T-6s can sneak up on me, they are quiet until pretty close in, but the T-1s I can usually hear for a good 20-30 seconds before they arrive because of that very high pitched whine the engines make.
Others besides the Randolph trainers use the route, one aircraft that did not sneak up on me, but made a big impression was a C-130 that came blasting overhead. I've only seen two of those so far out here.
The Canadians also use the route occasionally, I've seen some of their T-6s (they call them Harvards) and one Challenger in Canadian markings.

The USAF don't come over every day, but I get Blackhawks, Apaches, and Chinooks from Ft Hood on a daily basis.

Cheers

Thanks, Rory.
Sounds like a great place to kick back and plane-watch in a lawnchair.
With that corridor so low to your dirt do you have drone restrictions there?

Designing and building the MU-300's (predecessor of the T-1) was a high point in my career(s). Met many good people, some celebrities, and some very high "dingy-taries" too.

One sweet memory was when the USAF Thunderbirds came to town. The evening before their airshow performance brought foul weather and a high risk of damaging hail. By mid afternoon both the turboprop MU-2 and the Jet MU-300 productions hangars were somewhat rearranged to shelter the F-16's in their Thunderbird colors. Their support aircraft evacuated for the night. As was common, I was working some overtime and needed to go out into the hangar to eyeball a cockpit for a design I was assigned. I was somewhat shocked to be greeted at the bay door by a well armed Air Force Security Policemen who declared that I could not enter the hangar bay. No problem here. I just decided that this would be a good evening to go home earlier than planned.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Ha! It is a biblical reference...my late husband's email address was animateddirt...

It is amusing that at the same time this fray with buying the Mitsubishi aircraft engines for the TTTS trainers was happening, Lockheed in Burbank was selling P3's to Japan, and they had to have Congress' approval to do so, also using the same Mitsubishi engine and had not a single issue selling a fighter trainer (pre TTTS) to have those contracts.

I love hearing how usernames are chosen. Thanks for sharing that.

After WWII there were restrictions placed on Japan regarding many products inbound, outbound, and of their own production and use. Their military was limited to SELF DEFENSE capabilities ONLY.

My first exposure to Mitsubishi airplanes predated my employment with them. While in the USAF I became somewhat familiar the the JSDF (Japanese Self Defense Forces) search and rescue versions of the turboprop MU-2 (with a sliding side door for dropping sea survival equipment) and ther MU-2C gunship.... Yup, that rascal had side gunner positions and a pair of 13mm nose mounted guns for coastal patrol and protection.
When I learned that the civil versions were built in San Angelo and I would be settling here (first wife was from the area), I fired off a resume. Upon discharge from active duty I moved here with my young family without a job, but with only the promise of an INTERVIEW with MAI (Mitsubishi Aircraft International). I guess they liked me - LOL. They hired me practically on the spot, put me immediately to work on both the MU-2 and MU-300 as needed, and I stayed with them until they closed the doors here in '86 even as more experienced folks were furloughed as production wound down.

On another note....

It was fun to watch the Japanese employees gather around a recently received sea container carrying a new airframe. (one MU-2 turboprop per container, or three containers could bring us two airframes with one caring a pair of wing-sets and the other two the separate fuselage sections.) The employees TDY from Japan would anxiously await the opening of the fuselage door.... then one of them would start passing out "CARE PACKAGES" from home that their families has sent to them. This was before the age of Homeland Security and such. Customs inspections were not then what they are now.


Oh, so many memories.

 

[M813rc]

Sounds like a great place to kick back and plane-watch in a lawnchair.
With that corridor so low to your dirt do you have drone restrictions there?

It is, though you may get skunked! The Air Force only come through during certain phases of their training syllabus, and at unpredictable times. A friend into photography got buzzed out here one day, was very excited and came back with all his gear. We hung around for several hours, but the only aviation assets he got pictures of had feathers. As he was leaving, all his gear packed up and him driving out the gate, two pairs of T-6s came blasting over!
The Air Force tend to be busy for a few days at a time, then it might be a week or ten days before I see any more activity from them.
The Army fly pretty much every day, mostly Blackhawks, but a lot of Apaches and a few Chinooks.

Unknown on drone restrictions, I've actually never checked and I don't fly any.
I'll have to check to see if it is a restricted airspace corridor, or just regulated through NOTAMs. I do get a fair amount of GA activity higher up

Cheers