tatra 813 new owner

[duncan]

Nice find on the tool. They're the single most valuable pliers in my collection. Made by Knipex. Theres a bunch of differrent sizes, but I mostly use the smaller one since it fits in small places and still allows me to grip very strong. The big ones are great too but once you get up to that size there often is a better way to deal with the problem.

The jaws do indeed always stay parallel. Also with this construction, you dont close the jaws directly, but through a leverage. This allows you to put massive force on it with ease. With the parallel jaws, I often use it to straighten/flatten things that got bend or dented.

 

[duncan]

Found this on the all knowing web. It may or may not apply, no picture to go with the instructions.

Got the original sizes of those? The automatic resizing on the forum makes them very hard to read even in full screen view.

I found some more manual pages on the heater too. It says to hold the glower button for 20 seconds, then to put the heater in position 2 while keeping the glower activated until the "characteristic sound" is heared. Love that phrasing.

When its running you can set it to position 1 (low) or 2 (full). If you want it on 3 (high) then you have to disconnect the thermal protection first.

 

[cranetruck]

I have to add that tool to my wish list.

If the conversion factor is correct, 12,000 Kcal/Hr is equivalent to about 48,000 BTU/Hr.
The personnel heaters in the MVs here are usually rated 15,000 to 30,000 BTU/Hr, so that one will toast you for sure.
I don't have any better copies of the printed pages, but should be readable.

Be careful about the accumulation of fuel in the combustion chamber if it doesn't start right away. Funny about the "characteristic" sound specification, especially for a first timer.
My heaters take about 45 seconds to a minute to fire and the characteristic sound is that of a large fluttering flame with the sound of a typical vacuum cleaner added on.
From your images, it looks like the heater can be taken apart, so what's holding you up?

 

[duncan]

Hmmm, 45 seconds... didnt try that long since I didnt know what it'd do. I did check the glower, it works a charm. That BTU calculation is correct. Dont forget it has a 4 door cab and v12 to heat, in russian winters.

The hot air distribution system is a work of art. There are hollow sections in the cab where the hot air flows through, and you can engage and disengage different sections. The heater is located in under the rear bench.

From there its ducted over the cab floor on the left and right side of the engine doghouse. Those channels have removable covers that allow the air to heat the cylinders and engine, basicly heating the inside of the entire doghouse.
Then it comes past some vents that you can open to get extra heat inside the cab for the crew itself. Next up in line you can enable airflow to the window blowers.

Lastly theres a channel to the battery compartment, and one to the air filter compartment. So you can have the air filters take in warm air, if needed. For the batteries theres an additional tray with heater blocks you can slide into special slots under the compartment.

If all that is not enough, theres a section in my manual on de-icing the engine with a blowtorch. Theres something completely weird about a manual saying "take from the drivers equipment the blowtorch, and use it to remove the ice from the engine". It's in the section labelled "starting with temperatures below -40" or something along those figures. Makes me smile every time.

 

[cranetruck]

Interesting how similarly problems are solved in different places. The blow torch approach is used in extreme cold weather on the M973 (Swedish BV206). A circulation tank is hooked up to the engine cooling system and a hand held blow torch is used to heat the coolant, which circulates by convection.
An air cooled engine is different, of course.
The duct works is extensive on my 8x8 also (see image), one main branch runs across the engine hatch cover to the defrosters and two separate ducts run along the sides to the driver and co-driver spaces.
There are two heaters, one for the cab as described and one to preheat the engine coolant and crankcase oil. It is just visible to the left of the co-driver's seat. The oil is heated by the exhaust from that heater. The coolant also heats the battery compartment.

A note, when you get this far, let the cab warm up before letting the hot air from the heater hit the windshield. The 250°F air will crack the cold glass.

The shut-down of the heater is important also. It is an automatic sequence on my heaters and burns all excess fuel within the combustion chamber with the fuel supply turned off. It takes about two minutes. There may be a similar procedure on yours also. Just be aware of fuel accumulating within the heater from false starts and improper shut-downs.

 

[tm america]

ok this has to be one of the longest running posts .it has went from a to b to c and back to a again .its great to have somewhere to get your thoughts out but it would be easier to get into if it were broken down into separate posts about certain things.and cranetruck always amazes me with the info you come up with

 

[tatra813]

Got the original sizes of those? The automatic resizing on the forum makes them very hard to read even in full screen view.

I found some more manual pages on the heater too. It says to hold the glower button for 20 seconds, then to put the heater in position 2 while keeping the glower activated until the "characteristic sound" is heared. Love that phrasing.

When its running you can set it to position 1 (low) or 2 (full). If you want it on 3 (high) then you have to disconnect the thermal protection first.

I made some (slightly) better pictures of the heater. Got one of the data plate too but it came out too blurry. I can make out the unit is from NAFTOVE TOPENI, where TOPENI seems to be an area in the czech republic. The unit is rated 12 000 kcal / hour, 24 volts 8 ampere.

View attachment 154166 View attachment 154167 View attachment 154168

I found this info [http://www.brdm2.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/praga-v3s/naftove-topeni-6-bon-3-_praga-v3s_-] but its all in gibberish, and its a different model. Ive got a "12 bon 3". The first number seems to indicate the KCal/h rating, since the "6 bon 3" is rated 6kW/h.

Found this bit through google translate:

Edit: wait I found the proper translated english version:


Lastly, I beadblasted the cylinder heads cause I was bored Got a nice picture of the injector system for you.

View attachment 154169 View attachment 154170

Nice work so far! Have you cleaned out your injectors yet?

 

[duncan]

ok this has to be one of the longest running posts .it has went from a to b to c and back to a again .its great to have somewhere to get your thoughts out but it would be easier to get into if it were broken down into separate posts about certain things.and cranetruck always amazes me with the info you come up with

Youre right, and cranetruck is a downright nutter with a magnifying glass He sees details in pictures noone else noticed before.

Sorry for the massive thread, you're right about breaking it down. Dont want to start a seperate thread for every small thing I do though.

Nice work so far! Have you cleaned out your injectors yet?

No sorry, I only have 1 day weekends at the moment, so cant do too much. But having the covers off it a start!

 

[John C]

Cranetruck; the engine pre-heater system you've mentioned sounds identical in operation to the ones that are fitted to most Russian built trucks, in fact the system has been used by the Russians since before WW2. I have a Zil 131 with is fitted with one of these heaters, the only difference is they run on gasoline rather than diesel.

Duncan; the injectors can be shifted using a heel bar under the port where the injector pipe extension screws in, if they don't just lift out with a bar use a hammer and gently tap the injector on the opposite whilst levering at the same time.

 

[cranetruck]

Cranetruck; the engine pre-heater system you've mentioned sounds identical in operation to the ones that are fitted to most Russian built trucks, in fact the system has been used by the Russians since before WW2. I have a Zil 131 with is fitted with one of these heaters, the only difference is they run on gasoline rather than diesel.......

History is similar for US vehicles, the original heaters were gasoline only, but new designs patented in the 1950's involved better vaporization of the fuel, permitting heavier fuels like kerosene, #1 and #2 diesel to be used as well as gasoline. They are now called "multifuel" heaters.

The consequence of short subject specific threads is that you would have to do a search each time to keep track of the project. I went that route for my 8x8 and my reasoning is that I get better replies on topics like "silicone rubber cement", "fuel burning heaters", "tire design" and on and on by keeping them separate. I have been posting xm757 8x8 topics since 2006 and combining all those would be a massive amount of reading. Each to his own.

 

[John C]

About the thread; I find it just as easy to use the 'Search this thread' tool at the top of the page to obtain the information required, if using this method I think it's probably going to be easier to find the relevant material as it's all in one place, however from a posters point of view it is probably best to start a new thread just for the purposes of obtaining information on a specific subject as you've mentioned.

Pre-heaters; I believe the Russians still favour gasoline fired units over a diesel as they are able to operate at much lower tempratures where a diesel unit would failed due to the waxing effect of the fuel in such conditions, even winter diesel(diesel+parrafin) can't opperate at such low tempratures reliabley, for this reason the Russians still even produce gasoline engined trucks for use where the climate is harsh enough it would prohibit a diesel engined vehicle being operated efficiantly.


Regards

 

[John C]

Hi Duncan.

I've just obtained the original rear body for my truck, it's not in good shape and needs all the timber for the floor replacing, it is also missing a few bits and bobs including the top part of the rear tail gate, do you have this for yours? If so I was wondering if you had any detailed photos available that I could use in order to fabricate a replacement, especially any showing fittings and fixtures? I would be very grateful for any images you could post but please don't worry if you are too busy to do so.

Regards

 

[duncan]

...I have a Zil 131...

Now that deserves a new thread

Hi Duncan.

I've just obtained the original rear body for my truck, it's not in good shape and needs all the timber for the floor replacing, it is also missing a few bits and bobs including the top part of the rear tail gate, do you have this for yours? If so I was wondering if you had any detailed photos available that I could use in order to fabricate a replacement, especially any showing fittings and fixtures? I would be very grateful for any images you could post but please don't worry if you are too busy to do so.

Regards

I'm missing that bit as well. Ive seen it on another tatra though, its similar to the top parts on the sides (but smaller, obviously). Uses the same system to mount it, too, so you could get all the details by looking at the side top parts. You could most probably buy one too.

I decided not to care about it for now, as I dont really see the advantage in having the tail gate doubled up and so heavy I cant close it by myself. As I probably mentioned before, I've been looking to mount a small electric winch on the front of the bed. Somewhere in the 3 to 5 tonnes region would be perfect. We thought out some different setups that allow you to use it to open and close both the side panels and the tailgate. Plus with open tailgate you could drag a car into the bed (with the help of a ramp ofcourse). Could possible make it so it can be used as a hoist too if I make the right supports.

Also thought about welding some beams under the bed that I can then extend to the sides. That would allow me to have the dropsides down in a horizontal position, thus giving me a bed of about 3.2 metres wide. Ideas, ideas... all on hold for now, need to get that new cabin first.

 

[John C]

I agree, there are all sorts of possibilities for modifications of the body, the only thing that bothers me is how lightweight it is, there does not seem to be any real structural strength and the original timber floor would have been relatively weak and easily broken, I plan to re-deck mine with some 50mm thick spruce overlaid with aluminum checker plate, may also increase the under deck support by adding extra steel to it, I'm thinking I'll also try to make this body easily demountable, it'll be secured with container twist locks to facilitate this. Anyway while I was checking over the body it occurred to me that the missing tail gate extension was also a contributory factor to the weakness, without the extension in place the sides are unsupported and flap around(without the hoops on) and may also be damaged by any lose cargo, hence my wish to fabricate a new one.

 

[duncan]

There are supposed to be chains on the sides which you have to span across the bed when driving around with cargo. Youre right about the bed not being very strong. Then again it only has a 7-ton load limit. It's designed to tow heavy trailers, not to be heavily loaded itself.

 

[John C]

I realise the version of the 813 we have was only really intended as a prime mover, however I imagine with a strengthened body the vehicle could carry a good bit more weight if required, I'm not even sure I would trust the body with 7 tons the way it is! - I'm sure I read somewhere 12 tons of ballast was required if pulling trailers at the heavier end of the scale, or perhaps this was for the NTH version?

The chains seem like a good idea, I've noticed them before in a parts diagram of the body, I would also still like to have the extension fitted as well though, it would certainly make the whole assembly a lot stronger.

 

[duncan]

All in all, you might be better off doing something as pictured. If you want to transport cargo with your 813, its probably easier to make a new bed than to reinforce the original one.

I've also seen some 813 fitted with the standard hydraulic hook/arm system too. A bit more work, but definately the coolest option imho. Can't find any pictures of those at the moment, sorry.

 

[tatra813]

Hi Duncan.

I've just obtained the original rear body for my truck, it's not in good shape and needs all the timber for the floor replacing, it is also missing a few bits and bobs including the top part of the rear tail gate, do you have this for yours? If so I was wondering if you had any detailed photos available that I could use in order to fabricate a replacement, especially any showing fittings and fixtures? I would be very grateful for any images you could post but please don't worry if you are too busy to do so.

Regards

A couple of my trucks have the piece you are talking about. I will see if I can get some pics this weekend. I also have a couple different style tailgates between the 3 tatras

 

[tatra813]

Lets see the Zil pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[John C]

Lets see the Zil pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's a link to my Zil album on the Russiantruck site Russian Military Trucks Gallery :: John's Zil-131 Vacuum Tanker Conversion

These are old photos now - will add some new ones soon.


Duncan - It's funny you should mention hook lifts because that was something I had been thinking about recently, again I think though it would require the cab to be shortened in order to give you the length, also I think the winch is going to need removing as it makes putting any standard body on difficult, but it would mean once done I could use fit any body I wanted, and as a bonus the hook lift type system will also operate as a tipper which is something I really wanted.