Texas FMV bumper stencil markings

[phillamb168]

My reading of that says the 25 year thing doesn't apply to military vehicles: "if the vehicle is a passenger car, truck, motorcycle or bus"... But of course, that depends on the guy at the DMV understanding that as well.

 

[Mogman]

I have two in the driveway with truck plates, the state considers the HMMWV a truck, what else could it be? it could be argued a helmet top with windows added to the rear and sides would be a passenger vehicle like a suburban but other than that it is a truck.

 

[Mogman]

OK I see what you are saying, it does not say UNLESS the vehicle is a truck it says IF the vehicle is a truck etc.

 

[phillamb168]

OK I see what you are saying, it does not say UNLESS the vehicle is a truck it says IF the vehicle is a truck etc.

Yeah that's my read of it - but I'm not a lawyer and I definitely won't be the one approving the paperwork, lol.

 

[phillamb168]

Found what I was looking for regarding 'correct' markings for unit designation btw: https://gear-report.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TB-43-0209-Color-Markings-And-Camouflage.pdf

 

[Mogman]

Did you get a SF-97? if so how long did it take, I have been waiting some time for mine, may call tomorrow, not that it will do any good.
I got one released in 18 hours after turning in paperwork and payment, but yet no SF-97

 

[phillamb168]

Did you get a SF-97? if so how long did it take, I have been waiting some time for mine, may call tomorrow, not that it will do any good.
I got one released in 18 hours after turning in paperwork and payment, but yet no SF-97

The guy I bought it from had already done that side of the paperwork, he had title in hand.

 

[Mogman]

The guy I bought it from had already done that side of the paperwork, he had title in hand.

So it is titled as a 2005?

 

[Mogman]

Just a heads up, if there is a sale date on that title you only have 30 days to get it transferred or you will pay a penalty
Everyone using a SF-97 get to pay the penalty, the state does not care that it takes more than 30 days to get the SF-97

 

[phillamb168]

So it is titled as a 2005?

Yes

 

[Mogman]

You do not need ins. or inspection to get just the title changed over, you need that when you want to register it.

 

[blutow]

I have my 1123 registered as FMV in Texas and used the stencil numbering as my license rather than getting a plate.

I can't speak for correct Army markings (mine has the Marine markings on the hood, b pillar, and tail gate).

It is titled with the VIN as the serial number on the data plate and my registration shows the plate number as the stencil number on the truck. I can't remember if that stencil number was on any of my paperwork I gave the tax office, maybe could have given them any number? Not sure.

I registered it as a 2000 year model (which is correct), so I don't think there is a rule about FMV having to be 25 years old. However, the state uses the same system/process for registering FMV's as they do for Antique vehicles (which must be 25 years old), so that was a point of confusion for the person processing my title and registration. The guy doing the registration had to make a couple calls to get it all figured out, but it all worked out in the end.

When I decided to do the stencils vs plates, I was wondering if there is higher risk getting pulled over since there are no visible plates on the truck (figuring the cops may not know the stencil option), but I've gotten nothing but waves and thumbs up. It's totally original looking, so I guess they could think it's still in active service and not give it a second thought. It's not a daily driver for me, but I get it out of the garage a good bit.

 

[Mogman]

Yes, 500K would be a truck that went through RECAP, Probably at Red River, must be a real low 500K as the program was put together in 2004 so 2005 would be an early R1
It does not matter to the state, it will be titled at what ever year it was sold as, what ever your SF-97 says or the title paperwork you filled out on GP.
So 2005 would make you not eligible for FMV plates until 2030

That sounds great!
I was going to stop in and ask my "ladies" but many times it is best to not stir the pot and go quietly into the night.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I have two in the driveway with truck plates, the state considers the HMMWV a truck, what else could it be? it could be argued a helmet top with windows added to the rear and sides would be a passenger vehicle like a suburban but other than that it is a truck.

I'm going to debate titled body style vs identified body style for registration purposes. It's more flexible than most realize and the state's take on this has shifted of the years. I deal with this literally every week and get calls about military vehicles coming through the DMV as subject matter expert.

I have an official email from a Tarrant County auto theft inspector that an HMMWV body style can be but not limited to a PK = pickup, LL = suburban, SV= SUV, or FB = Flatbed. It all comes down to how the vehicle is setup and what the owner declares. Example: M1097 2 door with troop seats. Without a cargo cover it's a PK as the troop seats are unsecured (no seatbelt) and unenclosed. If you enclose the rear it's technically a suburban as it has the design and ability to carry more than 4 passengers in a vehicle. This is similar to what you said above but Texas doesn't care as much about the body style unless they can get $$$ from it. As of 2020 they're after weight on titles. If your vehicle's curb weight (empty weight) is over 10,000 lbs it must have a weight slip to accompany a title/registration transfer unless it has it on the title already. They want that heavy vehicle use road tax money!

The rules are vague and over lap quite a bit. The officer had a lot to share about the system and had examples about classic card he was asked to do 68-A (vin inspections) on and he has to declare a body type at that time. Don't get me started on my El Camino/Convertible/Amphibious Gama Goat story which I won against the DMV and Tax Office. They just want to check boxes and move on so don't get caught up in body types too much.

The VTR-135 (FMV form) had 4 categories for "Vehicle type" and they're broad categories.. but they're how your vehicle is identified. Is your M1097R1 "LL" a "passenger" or "truck"? A passenger.. what? What kind of truck? "Truck" isn't a body style by the VTR-249!! It's all vague because the are trying to catch all body types, styles, and oddities that would fall through the cracks like say.. an M8 Grayhound. Truck or passenger? It's not designed to haul cargo but it's a little too heavy for a passenger status in theory despite designed to move and protect occupants. Now on the title, you could classify it as an AR (Armored vehicle) if you're trying to be painstakingly accurate in your mindset but that's for bank trucks and etc. The state and county will happily slap you with odd regulations and taxes like crazy because it's not what that oddly specific body style was designed for in their eyes. That M8 is now a PK or or LL because it's a best fit for the identified role of the vehicle.



Texas Administrative Code
(4) If the vehicle is registered as a former military vehicle as prescribed by Transportation Code, §504.502, the vehicle's registration number shall be displayed instead of displaying a symbol, tab, or license plate.
(A) Former military vehicle registration numbers shall be displayed on a prominent location on the vehicle in numbers and letters of at least two inches in height.
(B) To the extent possible, the location and design of the former military vehicle registration number must conform to the vehicle's original military registration number.

Registration numbers should be static to each vehicle but can be missing, illegible, or simply wrong. The state relies on the owners to self report information they find factual to their vehicle or supplement it as true as they can for compliance. Easy example: not having a VIN is non-compliance. If you're unable to locate or find the VIN you can have one issued or make a case to your inspecting officer to have a specific VIN issued in compliance with the original OEM's VIN scheme. They will have to check if that VIN is in existence already just like any VIN inspection but in doing so it's done in "good faith" (huge thing!) to keep the vehicle true to its original form.

All this stuff is fascinating to me but obligatory I'm not an attorney nor do I speak for any parties, organizations, or etc. This is all an accumulation of years od direct dealing with the Texas DMV, dealer's side of things, county officials, and tax offices.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I have my 1123 registered as FMV in Texas and used the stencil numbering as my license rather than getting a plate.

I can't speak for correct Army markings (mine has the Marine markings on the hood, b pillar, and tail gate).

It is titled with the VIN as the serial number on the data plate and my registration shows the plate number as the stencil number on the truck. I can't remember if that stencil number was on any of my paperwork I gave the tax office, maybe could have given them any number? Not sure.

I registered it as a 2000 year model (which is correct), so I don't think there is a rule about FMV having to be 25 years old. However, the state uses the same system/process for registering FMV's as they do for Antique vehicles (which must be 25 years old), so that was a point of confusion for the person processing my title and registration. The guy doing the registration had to make a couple calls to get it all figured out, but it all worked out in the end.

When I decided to do the stencils vs plates, I was wondering if there is higher risk getting pulled over since there are no visible plates on the truck (figuring the cops may not know the stencil option), but I've gotten nothing but waves and thumbs up. It's totally original looking, so I guess they could think it's still in active service and not give it a second thought. It's not a daily driver for me, but I get it out of the garage a good bit.

There is a code book at my local tax office that states a FMV can qualify without limitations to "year, make, model, country of origin, body style, etc" which was VERY broad. The vehicle must be of military origin, look military (simply put), and have a texas title. I've come to the same conclusion, with no opposition, that this rule is in in good standing as my M1070 HET is a 2005 (19 years), CUCVII is a 99' (24 years), M113A4 is a 2000 (23 years), M1093A1 is a 2009 (15 years), etc are all registered FMVs for many years now. These are just the ones under 25 years old which is the primary requirement for an antique plate.

If you're ever pulled over you should have your registration papers with you regardless of your stencils or etc. I've found that hard way (once) that officers don't like hand holding when it comes to running bumper numbers. Give them your insurance, registration (if asked), and small talk. Odds are in your favor that they think it's cool and want one too.

 

[Mogman]

There is a code book at my local tax office that states a FMV can qualify without limitations to "year, make, model, country of origin, body style, etc" which was VERY broad. The vehicle must be of military origin, look military (simply put), and have a texas title. I've come to the same conclusion, with no opposition, that this rule is in in good standing as my M1070 HET is a 2005 (19 years), CUCVII is a 99' (24 years), M113A4 is a 2000 (23 years), M1093A1 is a 2009 (15 years), etc are all registered FMVs for many years now. These are just the ones under 25 years old which is the primary requirement for an antique plate.

If you're ever pulled over you should have your registration papers with you regardless of your stencils or etc. I've found that hard way (once) that officers don't like hand holding when it comes to running bumper numbers. Give them your insurance, registration (if asked), and small talk. Odds are in your favor that they think it's cool and want one too.

Thanks for your input!!!!
Question, since the HMMWV can be changed so easily have you ever heard of someone changing the "body style" on a HMMWV after it has been titled?

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Thanks for your input!!!!
Question, since the HMMWV can be changed so easily have you ever heard of someone changing the "body style" on a HMMWV after it has been titled?

I've had to change the HMMWV body style "HEAVY DUTY" to LL or PK to make it fit the system but I've not seen a body style change beyond that in person. I have changed FMTVs from "ST" (Stake Bed) to "FB" (Flat Bed) without any issue. It has been as simple as stating the desired body style on the 130-U (title application) when filing for the title. I do know that certain body styles do have specific requirements that must be met beyond the obvious such as "MH" (motorhome), "CR" (Crane), and "TT" (wrecker - please never use it. Only bonded Texas tow companies can register a vehicle with this). I have changed a ST/FB to MH before and it required additional documentation with photos and explanation for approval.

tl;dr - General rule of thumb: if it's a well known manufacturer it's likely body style locked. If the clerk has to choose "other" in the system for make and populate it manually you can dictate near all fields of data as long as it corresponds to your paperwork. AM General, Oshkosh, Stew & Steve are not on that list.

 

[Mogman]

I've had to change the HMMWV body style "HEAVY DUTY" to LL or PK to make it fit the system but I've not seen a body style change beyond that in person. I have changed FMTVs from "ST" (Stake Bed) to "FB" (Flat Bed) without any issue. It has been as simple as stating the desired body style on the 130-U (title application) when filing for the title. I do know that certain body styles do have specific requirements that must be met beyond the obvious such as "MH" (motorhome), "CR" (Crane), and "TT" (wrecker - please never use it. Only bonded Texas tow companies can register a vehicle with this). I have changed a ST/FB to MH before and it required additional documentation with photos and explanation for approval.

tl;dr - General rule of thumb: if it's a well known manufacturer it's likely body style locked. If the clerk has to choose "other" in the system for make and populate it manually you can dictate near all fields of data as long as it corresponds to your paperwork. AM General, Oshkosh, Stew & Steve are not on that list.

And the body style was changed after the title was issued or only during the titling process?

 

[blutow]

Why do folks care what body style is on their registration? A difference in registration fees? For fmv registration, it’s good for 5 years (and no inspection fees), so super cheap any way you slice it.

 

[Mogman]

Why do folks care what body style is on their registration? A difference in registration fees? For fmv registration, it’s good for 5 years (and no inspection fees), so super cheap any way you slice it.

YES, passenger vehicles registration has more to do with the year model, a truck is registered by its gross weight
Has nothing to do with your FMV registration, it's fixed for anything, HMMWV, 10 ton same thing