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The curious case of the M923A2 Shut Off Solenoid.

Rolling Thunder

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Did you figure out what you problem was with the kill switch. Just bought one started fine ran for a few minutes and died like it was running out of fuel, didnt know much about the kill switch at time but looked at it and had been pulled or for the pull wire was all loose and and silver plunger coming out of solenoid was all the way out. Will tie the kill switch into place and see if that works and other ideas would be great, before i have to have the beast towed off the lot.
 

VPed

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Instead of tying off the kill lever, consider removing the top screw and loosening the bottom one. Then the kill solenoid plunger can be moved be to beside the kill lever. This would still allow the emergency shutdown cable to work. I did this on a truck with dead batteries.

Another thing: I think those solenoids give major problems if you have a low voltage condition (like dead batteries). I found that solenoid was getting way hot, and would not retract without help, until the batteries were completely charged. Now, with proper voltage, the solenoid works as it should every time, and is only warm to the touch after extended operation.
 

Rolling Thunder

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Canutillo, TX
i did happen to half to jump the truck and im sure i have a dead celll or two with the batteries, as well i touched the solenoid and it was not warm but hot as **** after cranking the truck to start. You seem to be on point, i will give this a try this afternoon on the base to try and remove it without towing. if you come up with anything else please shoot my way and thank you so much.
 

VPed

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Hey, I see you are just on the other side of EP from me. Welcome to the site and the disease. Maybe we will see each other around.

If you are having to jump it and you suspect batteries are not quite up to snuff (yet), I suggest you disconnect the power to the solenoid and possibly remove it altogether until you resolve those issues. There is a guy close by that had a solenoid burst into flames. A little foresight could help prevent another to do the same.
 

Rolling Thunder

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yea im on the westside of town in upper, upper valley...lol! thanks for the information, i will disconnect the trouble some thing. Just unplugging for the time being will work correct, just need to get it started and going to run in over transmountain to the house maybe 15 miles or more. I want to drive it off base and not pay the darn towing fees to get to the house. If i cranked while the solenoid was keeping fuel from flowing did introduce air into the system during that time do you think?
 

VPed

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Cranking with the solenoid not working should not let air in but that doesn't mean you don't have air in the fuel system. These things are notorious for developing air leaks on the lines from the tank to the injection pump. Since it is a suction line, air leaks in without fuel leaking out. If you have air, it is a separate problem from the solenoid.
 

Rolling Thunder

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Canutillo, TX
alright thank you, just a thought i had after going over this in my head for the last two days and yes it is a disease...lol! Have you found any good mechanics to work on your trucks in our area for our trucks.
 

atomoros

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Pittsburgh,PA
I have developed the same solenoid problem in my 1991 923A2. My question is can I run it without any problems by just eliminating the solenoid. Thanks "This is a Great Informational site"
 

VPed

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Have you found any good mechanics to work on your trucks in our area for our trucks.
I haven't really had a need for a mechanic yet. I have been able to handle the issue I have encountered so far. My deuce is the one that has needed the most attention.
 

VPed

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I have developed the same solenoid problem in my 1991 923A2. My question is can I run it without any problems by just eliminating the solenoid. Thanks "This is a Great Informational site"
No real problem running without the solenoid and just using the emergency shutoff. They work the same component on the injection pump. I ran that way on a truck with battery voltage issues until those issues were resolved, then reinstalled the solenoid.
 

Rolling Thunder

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Canutillo, TX
You nailed it with the low voltage issue on the solenoid. I swapped all batteries and it cranked up after half a bottle of ether introduced into the air intake system. But cranks and running every turn now with new batteries.
 

VPed

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You nailed it with the low voltage issue on the solenoid. I swapped all batteries and it cranked up after half a bottle of ether introduced into the air intake system. But cranks and running every turn now with new batteries.
Good to hear. See you around.
 

Over

Member
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Location
Cave Creek AZ
No real problem running without the solenoid and just using the emergency shutoff. They work the same component on the injection pump. I ran that way on a truck with battery voltage issues until those issues were resolved, then reinstalled the solenoid.
My son and I where out in the M936A2 and while we were on our really bad mine road noticed no gauges etc. Figured all power was out but still running. Popped open the hood and the solenoid was smoking and the wires hot as ****. Unplugged it and had juice again! Fired it up and without shuting down when we got there set up the boom and moved a skid steer. Shut down to have a beer and bullsheit. Well then went to fireup and nothing, poped the hood and found we had no power till we plugged the solenoid in. Fired up then disconnected the solenoid, still had juice and got home. Shut down then went to restart and nothing. It seems in my case the solenoid has to be in the circuit to start but when started can be disconected. Solenoid doesn't kill motor and have always used the kill pull.
 

6.5wnightvision

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Location
Carrollton. Georgia
My son and I where out in the M936A2 and while we were on our really bad mine road noticed no gauges etc. Figured all power was out but still running. Popped open the hood and the solenoid was smoking and the wires hot as ****. Unplugged it and had juice again! Fired it up and without shuting down when we got there set up the boom and moved a skid steer. Shut down to have a beer and bullsheit. Well then went to fireup and nothing, poped the hood and found we had no power till we plugged the solenoid in. Fired up then disconnected the solenoid, still had juice and got home. Shut down then went to restart and nothing. It seems in my case the solenoid has to be in the circuit to start but when started can be disconected. Solenoid doesn't kill motor and have always used the kill pull.
Im having the same issue with my 936a2
 

WillWagner

The Person You Were Warned About As A Child
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Somewhere here on SS I posted up about the resistance values and how the circuits work of the FSOV. The one pictured in the first post is a Trombetta, they were VERY problematic. They were changed to the Synchrostart brand and things were much better. The biggest issues on the C and B for that matter, were grounds. One of the fixes was to eliminate the harness ground and ground the FSOV wire coming out of the solenoid itself, directly to a bolt on the intake manifold, however, when that is done ALL of the grounds must be checked to make sure there is a good return path back to the batteries.

The books stated that anything less than 10 ohms of resistance was a "good" ground, nope. If you have 10 ohms cold, guaranteed the value will go +20 when things heat up or when things all start working at the same time. They need to be in the area of 1 ohm. Check engine to cab and chassis, cab and chassis to battery ground. When these were new, we saw a mess of them, most were just the FSOV being the Trombetta. Replaced it and all was good. But these things are pushing 40 years old and have been through many people, places and processes, who knows how the connections are now. For all anyone knows, the ground straps were removed and never put back in place orput on loose and painted over.

If good grounds cannot be achieved through cleaning and tightening of cables, you can make new ground paths using 8-10 ga wire from and to any cleaned/prepped point on the engine, cab, chassis. IIRC, we had to run new return path wiring on the early, 1991-93 Navistar COE trucks that JB hunt ran because the grounds were junk in the Navistar harnesses.

The ground R values apply to the control box grounds too.
 

LCA078

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One of the fixes was to eliminate the harness ground and ground the FSOV wire coming out of the solenoid itself, directly to a bolt on the intake manifold, however, when that is done ALL of the grounds must be checked to make sure there is a good return path back to the batteries.
I've never liked harness grounds, engine grounds, or other frame grounds for critical circuits. IMHO, if there is a item like the FSOV that requires uninterrupted, full voltage/power for the vehicle to operate, then that circuit should be grounded directly to the same spot where the negative battery cable is connected. Good example of this is running a dedicated ground cable from the starter back to the batteries and then use that as the critical ground. I know this may be overkill but it sure makes trouble shooting a heck of a lot easier.
 
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