thinking about getting 419 see, need input!

[yamaracer]

good morning guys!
my wife & i just acquired 20 acres in norther new mexico and i'm looking for a good versatile piece of equip to plow snow & do general maint on the land.
i was looking thru iron planet for dozers/backhoes etc and came across the little unimog 419see...

1. the opening bid for these is $4750, is that close to the price you guys have ended up paying or does it go up quite a bit before winning?

2. i understand they will not have the power of a jd550lt or a case 580 backhoe but do they would work alright for what i'm needing?

3. can a blade be swapped in place of the front bucket?

please feel free to add any other info you guys think is important!

thanks for your thoughts!!

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Prices range from $4750-22500 pending condition and how the stars align. Running units in fair shape fetch around $9K before fees. Prepare to replace a lot of hoses and do some trouble shooting, don't expect any tools/accessories to be on board but you never know! You can easily slip $10k into a non-running unit that may or may not be fully functional in the end so inspect it in person if you can. Overall they're neat "little" things. Not sure about the blade, anything can be done with enough time and money.

 

[Bikers33]

good morning guys!
my wife & i just acquired 20 acres in norther new mexico and i'm looking for a good versatile piece of equip to plow snow & do general maint on the land.
i was looking thru iron planet for dozers/backhoes etc and came across the little unimog 419see...

1. the opening bid for these is $4750, is that close to the price you guys have ended up paying or does it go up quite a bit before winning?

2. i understand they will not have the power of a jd550lt or a case 580 backhoe but do they would work alright for what i'm needing?

3. can a blade be swapped in place of the front bucket?

please feel free to add any other info you guys think is important!

thanks for your thoughts!!

1. You are best to figure out what your budget is and then look through all the pictures for each FLU you would be interested in. Make sure to study the pictures carefully and read every word on the inspection report!!! $4750- 11,500 is the norm but as high as $22,500. Now organize the ones you choose according to the time that it's going on the block, early to later.Bid the maximum amount that you are willing to spend on the first one if you win ... great if not then bid on the next one coming up from your list till you get one. After a few go by, you will know what people are in the mood to spend on that day. You can always adjust your maximum bid as it goes on (make sure wife is out for coffee with friends!). Just do it one at a time if you only want one... you may end up with more if you put bids on more than one auction.

2. The excavator on the rear of the 419SEE is a Case 580 which is also removable. It's not designed for heavy construction but it will definitely do for what you are looking for.

3. Anything can be done if you want to..... I fabricated one to fit the stock attachment point on my FLU. There was one built for the military that had a push blade and included a chain trencher on the rear. The HME is a very rare piece to find, I think only 14 were ever built. You can custom mount any commercially available plow/blade to the front, you just have to make your own custom mounts to fit the front of the FLU.

Hope it helps, Good luck at the auction.

 

[yamaracer]

thanks so much guys!
i'm going to read and study more on this and watch the upcoming auction to see what they go for.
several of the ones coming up for auction appear to have the tools with them.
when i jump off and buy one, i'll def be posting it

 

[peakbagger]

The most obvious thing to consider is if you don't have the tools and motivation to learn how to make your own repairs, don't buy one unless you plan to write a lot of expensive checks to a local mechanic for him to learn how to work on them. It not that they are that much complicated than a standard piece of equipment, they are just different and weigh twice as much. Plan on stocking up on extra large metric sockets and wrenches. Plan on replacing all the fluids.

Things that some folks don't understand up front. The SEE is tractor not a truck. Its never going to be happy on the road, even if you strip off the accessories. Most folks recommend 35 MPH max (which feels far faster). The loader is not a bulldozer, its good for moving dirt that was loosened up but if you are trying to move compacted soil its not what it was designed for. It doesn't have a PTO which limits its ability to support many common farm implements. It wont fit in a standard garage.

Another thing to factor in is that although Mercedes guaranteed part availability to the US government for a long time (I have seen referenced to 50 years), nowhere did they fix the cost. If you are familiar with the term hundred dollar toilet seat keep that in mind when you order genuine Mercedes Parts for the mog. There are a lot of surplus SEE parts sloshing around the system that are being cleared out of government inventory. They will slowly get eaten up and some of the folks who pick them up at auctions are pretty unrealistic on pricing. Some folks have gotten lucky buying dead (not running) SEEs but many have been cannibalized for parts. If I was closer to an auction I would buy a non running one just for parts.

Mercedes worked with Schmidt to make numerous accessories but they didn't use the standard Schmidt Mount for the loader (even though its a Schmidt loader). There have been sightings in the wild of a snowplow with a SEE mount (apparently the airforce used a few of these for runways) but don't expect to find one. Building a mount to match up with a SEE isn't rocket science but will take some fabrication.

Some common issues I know of.

Rodent Damage

Many of the Texas SEEs have electrical issues that the auction description may not catch, the engine can start and run and the hydraulics may also run but it looks like rodents in Texas have decided that setting up shop behind the dashboard is great place to raise a family once they chew the main harness in half. It not obvious unless you remove a lot of stuff that the damage is there. I thought I was the only one but more than few folks are running into this issue. Repairing this damage takes a lot of time and can impact many systems as Mercedes doesn't color code their harnesses. To date no one has found an electrical diagram so electrical diagnostic skills are handy to have.

Hydraulic Cooling Fans shorted out due to leaking wiring. This is another issue that the auction listing wont catch. It looks like a minor fuse issue. No current source for stock replacement fans but with some rigging 24 volt truck cooling fans can be retrofitted

Brake line antifreeze reservoir damaged and full of dirt. This can introduce dirt right into the brake system. As long as the dirt doesn't make it to the brakes and don't use it in below freezing conditions you don't need it. I haven't found a source of rebuilt kits or new reservoir.

Main brake line between regulator and air tanks rot out - No brakes, upgrade to CUNI lines which don't rot.

Fuel system - The plastic fuel hoses can have vacuum leaks, replace the fuel lines and all gaskets on the low pressure side of the fuel system, buy a new style primer pump as the original screw type don't work well. If you are not familiar with hand priming a diesel, you had better learn as you may be doing it whenever it sits for a long time. Running the engine with the starter for long periods to build up fuel pressure is very bad idea as the injector pump is lubricated by fuel

Differential lockers don't work - The seals that make the diffs lock are relatively cheap but it s major effort to replace as the axles need to be partially disassembled. If you are lucky with a lot of patience staring at the tech manuals you can figure out where the drains are on the axle and run marvel mystery oil through the system to free up the seals.

The throttle linkage is quite complex due the hand throttle and auxiliary remote throttle, the linkage needs to be lubricated and quite a few SEEs seem to come with this linkage in poor shape. Lots of little expensive parts and unless you raise the cab which is lot harder than you think a bear to get at.

Speaking of raising the cab, there is special tool kit including special brackets required to raise the cab which is required to get at a lot of major systems. You can work around some of the parts but the brackets are required. By the way the FOPS (the steel shield over the roof needs to be removed to tilt the cab.

 

[Bikers33]

thanks so much guys!
i'm going to read and study more on this and watch the upcoming auction to see what they go for.
several of the ones coming up for auction appear to have the tools with them.
when i jump off and buy one, i'll def be posting it

Getting tools will be a crap-shoot, don't hold your breath. If it's in the picture with the tool box door open then you will get the tools, the auction listings showing tools will fetch a higher bid. The pictures that only show tool box doors closed will be a surprise when you get it home, some have but most don't come with the tools...Good luck. It is wise to take into account what peakbagger said about these tractors, there are a lot of little things that you have to do but it will be worth it in the end.

 

[MrSEE]

You can get a great deal on a neat piece of equipment, but prepare to chase some gremlins for some time. You might get lucky and have very few problems for $10-15k before shipping and fees. You can get burned now and then even in these price ranges [full disclosure: I repair and sell these].

The electrical is pretty simple, but yes, the harnesses are all black and the numbers aren't easy to read or see at times (we've been lucky on a couple that have colored harnesses, but not the norm). The engines are clearly pretty robust and are rarely a source of problems, but think some get started up low on oil and/or with throttles stuck open, so check all your fluids (duh) before you start your new toy (and look for notes saying engine had to be shut down/runaway).

The backhoes and loaders are typically in nice shape. Some hardly even appear used, but yes sun can do a number on hoses. Removing loader and backhoe actually goes pretty quickly, but a skid steer or excavator, or other piece of equipment is your friend here. This goes for cab too. That said, once cab is off it's pretty easy to work on most key components.

Ditto to what they said on tools. Think of it as a nice bonus that someone didn't steal them between when your auction pics were taken and when your machine arrives.

Im impressed by the backhoe capability. It will do any simple backhoe job that you wouldn't hire a medium of large excavator for. The loader is handy since can push in your dig work, but definitely see a plow being a huge advantage in winter. I have cruised comfortably (they're loud inside. Engine noise mostly) at 50mph for 50-60 miles. The one machine I've done this with returns about 10mpg. Not bad for a 16000lb off roader.

So yes, to sum up, the versatility and "speed" of the mog relative to many tractors is huge, but it is an investment in time if not money. Think one of these plus a skid steer could probably do 90% of what a person would need on a small ranch or country "estate."

Best of luck.

-MrSEE

 

[peakbagger]

Out of curiosity when folks buy at the government auctions are there third party services/brokers that will pick and deliver on site?. My SEE came from Texas from a private sale (from a Steel Soldiers member), so I arranged a pick up and he met them at his property. How are folks buying direct out of the auction do it?

 

[General Hood]

Out of curiosity when folks buy at the government auctions are there third party services/brokers that will pick and deliver on site?. My SEE came from Texas from a private sale (from a Steel Soldiers member), so I arranged a pick up and he met them at his property. How are folks buying direct out of the auction do it?

I am fortunate in that I live only 90 miles from the Texarkana GP location. I inspected a lot of the SEEs months ago prior to bidding and winning my first FLU419. I took photos of the GP sticker on the units I liked, and waited for them to come up on auction. A local recovery service picked up the SEE for me, however, I went along for the ride / recovery. The second SEE purchase was based off the auction photos and write up. That unit requires attention (time and money) to get it up to my standards. Note: GP stated the door on the accessory tool box was damaged so I did not expect the tools to be there, but all tools were with this unit, except the chainsaw. I used the same 3rd party vendor for pick up, and accompanied him on the recovery. It was a good thing I was present, because the hood and engine doghouse were on the ground, and the recovery guy may have missed picking them up

 

[NDT]

Good versatile piece of equipment? Get a Case 580. That way you can actually move dirt and not turn wrenches. I think the SEE is cool as heck, but reading all everyone's repair nightmares, I am steering clear.

 

[Bikers33]

Out of curiosity when folks buy at the government auctions are there third party services/brokers that will pick and deliver on site?. My SEE came from Texas from a private sale (from a Steel Soldiers member), so I arranged a pick up and he met them at his property. How are folks buying direct out of the auction do it?

Have a good transporter whom you trust to go pick it up. Email him the auction listing with all the pictures and inspection then include what you expect to be included (from the pictures). Have him contact you before loading if any major discrepancies exist ( tires missing, etc. ), he is now your boots on the ground. Then enjoy your new FLU, and the new things that come with owning one.

 

[MrSEE]

What General Hood said. Also many of the Gov auctions use a transport locator called Veritread. Basically after you win an auction a bunch of freight companies put out their bid on transporting your load. You can call your own transport too, but many of the Veritread ones will be familiar with the pickup procedures (at where ever your stuff is). Leave notes with the freight co (on veritread or by phone or whatever) on whatever stuff is supposed to come with the unit. Stinks to have a hood missing or whatever when you expected one.

On NDT's comment,
If you want a backhoe and a loader, go with the Case 580. It will probably give less trouble and being able to flick forwards and backwards will save time. You also won't need to lift the cab to access most things. But if you need a piece of machinery that doesn't have to be put on a truck to go more than 20 miles, the SEE is the ticket. There are ranchers here who appreciate being able to drive 20-50mph to another piece of land (a leased piece for example, or another ranch entirely) without having to trailer-up or drive in a backhoe for half a day.

We recently used one of our SEEs to clear brush and put in a cistern near the Bighorn reservoir. The road in is a nightmare. A backhoe would have to go very slow to avoid rocking itself into oblivion. Taking a trailer up is possible but would be very slow and hard on tires. The SEE goes over most of it at the speed that a light 4x4 pickup would. We also had to break rock next to the cabin in order to get the water line in deep enough. That breaker/jackhammer attachment is a BEAST.

It all comes down to what you need (or want). If you're going into tight places and don't want to tow, SEE has some great advantages. If you only need a backhoe/loader and don't need the speed (ha unimogs are only fast compared to dirt work equipment) and versatility, you might be better served with a 580 or something similar.