Augdog1964
Member
- 522
- 15
- 18
- Location
- Richmond, IN
Guys,
I posted this awhile back, and a lot of guys have found it extremely helpful. I get asked through SS quite a bit, on how to import, and/or acquire vehicles overseas, especially from E. Europe. I thought I would repost it here to help those with these questions.
I would be happy to provide assistance in Form 6, and putting guys in touch with customs brokers, and shipping agents for heavies as well... thanks in advance.
___________________________________________________
Ok guys... It took a lot of time and effort, frustration and pain, but I've learned some valuable lessons in importing vehicles for my collection...
1) Locate vehicle: You MUST have someone you either explicitly trust OR must put boots on the ground overseas and see, drive and check the vehicle. Armor especially is to big an investment. Take 100s of documentary pictures during this process.
2) Get an agreement with the owner on how the vehicle will be stored and cared for while you wrestle with importation. Will it stay inside? If not, is the vehicle secure? Insurance for loss once paid for? What will the temperature be where the vehicle sits? Are the fluids and tire pressures ok for this? Will the vehicle be started and batteries maintained?
When I say agreement, GET A CONTRACT. How long will they take to ship once you have approvals? Where will be located? What happens if you can't get import approval? Refunds? Will the vehicle be driven once paid for (get hours and mile/kms when you are there!!!). Use this and other step bys to document this contract.
3) If armor WHO IS DOING THE DEMIL AND DO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING? Want to really screw armor up have a hack do this work! The US demil standards are VERY different than UK, and the EU member states. In fact our standards are so damaging that many individual collectors may not sell to the US. You MUST have the breech block cut in two pieces and the barrel must have a hole the size of the bore cut in the high pressure area! If you want trouble buy a "demilled" vehicle in CZ and have it show with a full breech and a few little slits cut in the barrel! GET PICS OF THE DEMIL BEFORE SHIPPING and ensure that it meets standards before it is loaded. All secondary guns must be stripped from the vehicle or demilled as well. Don't let a nice E. European think he's doing you a favor by dropping a "bonus" PKT in the package inside the turret, or worse yet tucked into an engine compartment! This CAN happen!
Here is another problem for armor... the breech block is an INTEGRAL part of the barrel mechanism, providing the counterweight for the barrel length! When you cut the breech the barrel becomes incredibly front heavy. Worse yet the breech block invariably contains the barrel travel "lock" that secures the barrel. When cut how will the barrel be secured for shipping? How will you repair this to make the barrel balance? An unbalanced freefloating barrel is DEATH if riding inside the turret.
4) You must fill out your Form 6 completely and properly! The tank, its origin country, and any / all demilled weapons must be properly placed on the form. If you are not confident in doing government forms hire someone to do this for you. The price you pay is nothing compared to the cost of improper import documents! When you submit prepare to either be surprised or frustrated, as approvals are sometimes lightning fast, or horribly slow. Be prepared to get a reject the first couple times, or requests for more info, as you learn the form filling process!
Customs is not filled with people who don't do their jobs! Your vehicle WILL be inspected, and since 911 they are given documents on the import and the demil approved by ATF. Make sure the vehicle is clear of any ammo, and other no/no items as well!
5) Get the name and office location of ANYONE who calls from ATF Imports with questions or reject info. They are nice people doing a thankless job... and it can really help if you can find them again once you've fixed your issue!
6) GET A CUSTOMS BROKER! GET A CUSTOMS BROKER! GET A CUSTOMS BROKER! Do NOT attempt to negotiate the docks, customs, Department of Agriculture and the myriad post 911 security approvals and documents. The price is very reasonable... my customs broker cost me about $600 for the T-55 and they did all the coordination at the pier.
You will also have to buy an import bond. This can be a one time, or a year bond if you plan to do multiple imports. The bond covers everyone if the vehicle comes in and is seized or is not legal and the import co/ customs broker has their name on the document. Everyone gets legal protection. About $500 for a year bond.
7) KNOW YOUR PORT! There are some ports you shouldn't ship a big rock to!
Prearrange transport and have them standing by. KNOW the exact weight, width, height, and length of the vehicle and get those to the transport co. Be aware of individual state issues in transport heavy vehicles. Be involved with transport... the bids on moving my T-55 from Baltimore to Indiana varied DRASTICALLY! Individual states can be a bear. Ohio is really bad... over 80k? Gotta have State Patrol escorts and 45 MPH all the way!
9) Who is transporting your vehicle to the dock in the originating country? Have they done the proper paperwork for export? Do they have the proper documentation? If they don't know this process, hire a Mil Vehicle exporter in that country. I owe Bob Fleming a lot. He was patient and thorough and actually returns emails unlike a couple other UK exporter / mil vehicle companies. He knows his stuff and is more than reasonable with demil and shipping!
10) Who is arranging shipboard transport? Another reason to have a company help in the originating country. Once again I owe Bob Fleming big here!
11) Don't forget dirt! Say What? If you are buying any vehicle there can't be dirt on it ANYWHERE! Imagine hand cleaning each track link on a T-55 to get all the dirt and dirt residue off the vehicle. TRUE! What will that cost? Your vehicle WILL be inspected by Dept. of Ag FIRST! Usually before it comes off the ship. If it isn't clean you will pay the Govt. Agency contractors to do so! NOT CHEAP!
12) Make sure that COMPLETE STARTING AND STOPPING INSTRUCTIONS ARE WITH THE VEHICLE! If it has a master power switch make sure that is included! The BPzV we imported, the dock crew didn't turn off master power and she was dead when the shipper arrived. They had to use a dock fork lift (MUST BE HUGE) to lift it on the truck, which could have been damaging!
If you think you can show at the dock and drive your vehicle off and on to the transport, you are wrong... You basically now have to have security clearance to get on the dock. If you decide to go through that you still have to hire - wait for it - a licensed dock escort! (let the jokes begin). This takes a LONG time.
You still can't get on the ship, they won't let you. Best you can do is maybe watch it drive off the RO/RO (roll on / roll off).
13) Make sure transport is ready once it is cleared. You get some grace, but the T-55 was going to be billed $300 a DAY for dock storage. YUCK!
14) Be ready when it arrives to unload. Have people on standby as the unit travels. Don't think you'll unload a 42 ton tank with your 10 year old and yourself. Have support equipment (batteries, cables, fuel, pull vehicle) readily available. Your truck driver is NOT going to want to sit all day and wait while you try to get an immobile tank off the trailer!
Be prepared for any type of weather too! The BPzV was in a driving rainstorm, the T-34 in the middle of winter (talk about cold inside a 35 ton "cold" sync) and the T-55 after 18 inches of rain over the past two weeks, destroying every piece of turf in sight! LOL!
15) Know your vehicle before it arrives! Where are the batteries, fuel, controls for starting (best if labelled by last owner if in CZ for instance) etc.
16) Make sure you know enough about your vehicle to keep it safe. TANKS DO NOT CARE WHO THEY HURT and it can be much more dangerous when a fascinated newbie from down the street wants to take a ride!
17) Be prepared to WAIT! I arranged purchase in June, inspected the vehicle in August, had approval for import in November. Was demilled and cleaned by March (this took longer as I wanted the tank stored inside for all work and out of the UK winter, so this slowed down transport and work), and arrived May 6th. Basically 10 months... but that was probably slowed by at least 2-3 months by my inside requirement!
Thats about it! I'll get more pics up as we start working on her!
Dave Bane
Augdog1964
____________________
I posted this awhile back, and a lot of guys have found it extremely helpful. I get asked through SS quite a bit, on how to import, and/or acquire vehicles overseas, especially from E. Europe. I thought I would repost it here to help those with these questions.
I would be happy to provide assistance in Form 6, and putting guys in touch with customs brokers, and shipping agents for heavies as well... thanks in advance.
___________________________________________________
Ok guys... It took a lot of time and effort, frustration and pain, but I've learned some valuable lessons in importing vehicles for my collection...
1) Locate vehicle: You MUST have someone you either explicitly trust OR must put boots on the ground overseas and see, drive and check the vehicle. Armor especially is to big an investment. Take 100s of documentary pictures during this process.
2) Get an agreement with the owner on how the vehicle will be stored and cared for while you wrestle with importation. Will it stay inside? If not, is the vehicle secure? Insurance for loss once paid for? What will the temperature be where the vehicle sits? Are the fluids and tire pressures ok for this? Will the vehicle be started and batteries maintained?
When I say agreement, GET A CONTRACT. How long will they take to ship once you have approvals? Where will be located? What happens if you can't get import approval? Refunds? Will the vehicle be driven once paid for (get hours and mile/kms when you are there!!!). Use this and other step bys to document this contract.
3) If armor WHO IS DOING THE DEMIL AND DO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING? Want to really screw armor up have a hack do this work! The US demil standards are VERY different than UK, and the EU member states. In fact our standards are so damaging that many individual collectors may not sell to the US. You MUST have the breech block cut in two pieces and the barrel must have a hole the size of the bore cut in the high pressure area! If you want trouble buy a "demilled" vehicle in CZ and have it show with a full breech and a few little slits cut in the barrel! GET PICS OF THE DEMIL BEFORE SHIPPING and ensure that it meets standards before it is loaded. All secondary guns must be stripped from the vehicle or demilled as well. Don't let a nice E. European think he's doing you a favor by dropping a "bonus" PKT in the package inside the turret, or worse yet tucked into an engine compartment! This CAN happen!
Here is another problem for armor... the breech block is an INTEGRAL part of the barrel mechanism, providing the counterweight for the barrel length! When you cut the breech the barrel becomes incredibly front heavy. Worse yet the breech block invariably contains the barrel travel "lock" that secures the barrel. When cut how will the barrel be secured for shipping? How will you repair this to make the barrel balance? An unbalanced freefloating barrel is DEATH if riding inside the turret.
4) You must fill out your Form 6 completely and properly! The tank, its origin country, and any / all demilled weapons must be properly placed on the form. If you are not confident in doing government forms hire someone to do this for you. The price you pay is nothing compared to the cost of improper import documents! When you submit prepare to either be surprised or frustrated, as approvals are sometimes lightning fast, or horribly slow. Be prepared to get a reject the first couple times, or requests for more info, as you learn the form filling process!
Customs is not filled with people who don't do their jobs! Your vehicle WILL be inspected, and since 911 they are given documents on the import and the demil approved by ATF. Make sure the vehicle is clear of any ammo, and other no/no items as well!
5) Get the name and office location of ANYONE who calls from ATF Imports with questions or reject info. They are nice people doing a thankless job... and it can really help if you can find them again once you've fixed your issue!
6) GET A CUSTOMS BROKER! GET A CUSTOMS BROKER! GET A CUSTOMS BROKER! Do NOT attempt to negotiate the docks, customs, Department of Agriculture and the myriad post 911 security approvals and documents. The price is very reasonable... my customs broker cost me about $600 for the T-55 and they did all the coordination at the pier.
You will also have to buy an import bond. This can be a one time, or a year bond if you plan to do multiple imports. The bond covers everyone if the vehicle comes in and is seized or is not legal and the import co/ customs broker has their name on the document. Everyone gets legal protection. About $500 for a year bond.
7) KNOW YOUR PORT! There are some ports you shouldn't ship a big rock to!
Prearrange transport and have them standing by. KNOW the exact weight, width, height, and length of the vehicle and get those to the transport co. Be aware of individual state issues in transport heavy vehicles. Be involved with transport... the bids on moving my T-55 from Baltimore to Indiana varied DRASTICALLY! Individual states can be a bear. Ohio is really bad... over 80k? Gotta have State Patrol escorts and 45 MPH all the way!
9) Who is transporting your vehicle to the dock in the originating country? Have they done the proper paperwork for export? Do they have the proper documentation? If they don't know this process, hire a Mil Vehicle exporter in that country. I owe Bob Fleming a lot. He was patient and thorough and actually returns emails unlike a couple other UK exporter / mil vehicle companies. He knows his stuff and is more than reasonable with demil and shipping!
10) Who is arranging shipboard transport? Another reason to have a company help in the originating country. Once again I owe Bob Fleming big here!
11) Don't forget dirt! Say What? If you are buying any vehicle there can't be dirt on it ANYWHERE! Imagine hand cleaning each track link on a T-55 to get all the dirt and dirt residue off the vehicle. TRUE! What will that cost? Your vehicle WILL be inspected by Dept. of Ag FIRST! Usually before it comes off the ship. If it isn't clean you will pay the Govt. Agency contractors to do so! NOT CHEAP!
12) Make sure that COMPLETE STARTING AND STOPPING INSTRUCTIONS ARE WITH THE VEHICLE! If it has a master power switch make sure that is included! The BPzV we imported, the dock crew didn't turn off master power and she was dead when the shipper arrived. They had to use a dock fork lift (MUST BE HUGE) to lift it on the truck, which could have been damaging!
If you think you can show at the dock and drive your vehicle off and on to the transport, you are wrong... You basically now have to have security clearance to get on the dock. If you decide to go through that you still have to hire - wait for it - a licensed dock escort! (let the jokes begin). This takes a LONG time.
You still can't get on the ship, they won't let you. Best you can do is maybe watch it drive off the RO/RO (roll on / roll off).
13) Make sure transport is ready once it is cleared. You get some grace, but the T-55 was going to be billed $300 a DAY for dock storage. YUCK!
14) Be ready when it arrives to unload. Have people on standby as the unit travels. Don't think you'll unload a 42 ton tank with your 10 year old and yourself. Have support equipment (batteries, cables, fuel, pull vehicle) readily available. Your truck driver is NOT going to want to sit all day and wait while you try to get an immobile tank off the trailer!
Be prepared for any type of weather too! The BPzV was in a driving rainstorm, the T-34 in the middle of winter (talk about cold inside a 35 ton "cold" sync) and the T-55 after 18 inches of rain over the past two weeks, destroying every piece of turf in sight! LOL!
15) Know your vehicle before it arrives! Where are the batteries, fuel, controls for starting (best if labelled by last owner if in CZ for instance) etc.
16) Make sure you know enough about your vehicle to keep it safe. TANKS DO NOT CARE WHO THEY HURT and it can be much more dangerous when a fascinated newbie from down the street wants to take a ride!
17) Be prepared to WAIT! I arranged purchase in June, inspected the vehicle in August, had approval for import in November. Was demilled and cleaned by March (this took longer as I wanted the tank stored inside for all work and out of the UK winter, so this slowed down transport and work), and arrived May 6th. Basically 10 months... but that was probably slowed by at least 2-3 months by my inside requirement!
Thats about it! I'll get more pics up as we start working on her!
Dave Bane
Augdog1964
____________________
