Tire Age in Hmmwvs

[StackJ]

I can't get it out of my head that ten year old tires are simply unsafe. I have four. What are your thoughts?

Most folks are willing to run older tires and simply change them out when they blow. Given that Hmmwvs are not great at speed, I'm not likely to risk it if I can afford to have newer tires. What are the newest M/Ts that are coming out on surplus? Why are sellers not including dates on them?

(Here is a helpful post from 2007 on finding out your tire age. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/archive/index.php/t-9138.html )

 

[juanprado]

Depends on the tire. If it is the Bias Ply originals on 8 bolts, I would definitely take off tires & rims and maybe only use for trailers. Those tires last for ever. I picked up a truck with 4 very flat heavily cracked old bias and just pumped them up to move the truck. They are holding air just fine as rollers 2 years later. Amazed that such a poor condition tire would literally bounce back and hold air.

The radials, I would have greater confidence in. They have run flats so in case of a problem, you do have some margin of safety in your favor.

 

[porkysplace]

I can't get it out of my head that ten year old tires are simply unsafe. I have four. What are your thoughts?

Most folks are willing to run older tires and simply change them out when they blow. Given that Hmmwvs are not great at speed, I'm not likely to risk it if I can afford to have newer tires. What are the newest M/Ts that are coming out on surplus? Why are sellers not including dates on them?

(Here is a helpful post from 2007 on finding out your tire age. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/archive/index.php/t-9138.html )

Because sellers have a hard time getting top dollar out of old tires.

 

[simp5782]

We don't do dates cause alot of people want the newest date codes. Well can't please everyone. Not to mention you may go thru 1500 tires to find 10 sets of 5 tires that are all the same date code year and tread depth and wear. It virtually isnt worth it. We set tires within 3 years of each other on date codes. So you wont get 2015 tires and 2005 tires with the same set.

I ran 2011 XZL Tires for 45k miles all highway up to 75mph. Age is only an issue with dry rot. Especially in certain parts of the country. Any tire that has been on flat i would expect someone to change out just due to that.

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[98G]

A 10 year old tire that sat in a warehouse in OKC isn't the same as a 10 year old tire that sat in the AZ desert.

I've had several blowouts, two of which were on steer tires. (5ton trucks). Everyone should experience this !

If the prospect of a blowout is disturbing to you, just buy a set of new production tires. The cost for 37x12.5R16.5 tires isn't hideous, probably under $300 per tire. And it'd give you the opportunity to go to a bigger meaner tread design.

In comparison, new production 11.00R20 G177s are over $800 each, and new production 14.00R20 XZLs are $1800 per tire.

 

[Action]

A 10 year old tire that sat in a warehouse in OKC isn't the same as a 10 year old tire that sat in the AZ desert.

I've had several blowouts, two of which were on steer tires. (5ton trucks). Everyone should experience this !

If the prospect of a blowout is disturbing to you, just buy a set of new production tires. The cost for 37x12.5R16.5 tires isn't hideous, probably under $300 per tire. And it'd give you the opportunity to go to a bigger meaner tread design.

In comparison, new production 11.00R20 G177s are over $800 each, and new production 14.00R20 XZLs are $1800 per tire.

tirerack.com has the Wrangler M/T for $702 each
and the Wrangler MT/R for $767 each.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/Tire...5&rearWidth=255/&rearRatio=40&rearDiameter=17

 

[Jbulach]

Super Swamper part # rxm-32r, $400-450 new. One of the best all around tires I’ve ever owned.

 

[Awol]

I don't know why anyone would want to buy new MTRs, unless you're going for a 100% correct restoration. There's a lot better tires out there.

 

[98G]

tirerack.com has the Wrangler M/T for $702 each
and the Wrangler MT/R for $767 each.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/Tire...5&rearWidth=255/&rearRatio=40&rearDiameter=17

$283

 

[ken]

I agree with 98G, A tire sitting in a warehouse compaired to one sitting in the desert sun makes all the difference. Inspecting them for blems/cracks would be higher on my list. My M35 has a few surplus 9.00-20's from the 80's on it with no problems.

 

[Sintorion]

This is yet another reason (and probably a huge one) that these are sold for off road use. I could only imagine the law suits from someone having a tread separation on the highway. As thin as the bodies are on these a tire flapping would easily shred the foot well doing some pretty nasty carnage to some feet and legs.

You are running on barrowed time with any tire, but as tires get older the likelihood of a failure increases substantially. Tires are made of materials that don't necessarily bond. Getting steel to stick to rubber is not easy. They coat the steel to improve adhesion, but over time that bond breaks down. Being stored in a warehouse means little. If anything those warehoused tires are more dangerous because the outside appearance looks better.

 

[porkysplace]

This is yet another reason (and probably a huge one) that these are sold for off road use. I could only imagine the law suits from someone having a tread separation on the highway. As thin as the bodies are on these a tire flapping would easily shred the foot well doing some pretty nasty carnage to some feet and legs.

You are running on barrowed time with any tire, but as tires get older the likelihood of a failure increases substantially. Tires are made of materials that don't necessarily bond. Getting steel to stick to rubber is not easy. They coat the steel to improve adhesion, but over time that bond breaks down. Being stored in a warehouse means little. If anything those warehoused tires are more dangerous because the outside appearance looks better.

It also seems most of these tires are not "new from a warehouse" but used take-offs . Now combine that with the number of people wanting their HMMWV to go 100 MPH, what could go wrong.

 

[Mr Cornbread]

I may have the wrong idea about tires, but I have always went by the dry rot on them. I've been running these tires for many years on several of my trucks, even my 97 Chevy crew cab Cummins dually pulling heavy trailers and everything. The only problem I have ever had out them is the front tires sometimes start cupping on the dually and start to get out of balance so I change them out. On it I don't rotate them because of the hassle for one with the billet rear spacers, and the rear ones wear completely even and last quite a long time. They're cheap and easy to replace so I just change the front ones occasionally as they start to wear. I am not one bit afraid of running these tires. I think they are just fine as long as you are not running the cracked up dry rotted ones. Just my 2 pennys


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[lindsey97]

Couple of things will destroy a tire, and yet it will look good on the outside.

1) Running underinflated. This causes the tread package to "unglue" from the tire carcass, due to excessive heat, and fail even though the tire still looks good.

2) Age. Check your date codes!

3) Sitting flat for long periods. weight of the vehicle permanently deforms the steel belts, and or damages the casing. Tire will air up and hold air, but vibrate. Balancing will not fix.(think A2 trucks with CTIS inop)

4) Flat repair/external tread block damage. Damage to the exterior or flat repair allow a path for moisture to enter the tire causing permeation.

5) Thin tread. Tread acts an insulator from the road. The thinner the tread, the more heat gets absorbed into the tire during operation.

6) Permeation. Due to the above causes listed and/or use abuse(overload, overspeed, underinflation) Inside of a tire is a thin rubber liner. It seals the tire, keeps moisture out of the steel belts, and generally holds the psi at a constant pressure. When it starts to fail, whether old or new, it is hard to detect. If you get a new tire, and you can't keep psi consistent, then it is most likely the failure of the inner rubber liner. Moisture will then get in between the carcass and the tread package, and air pressure will aide in separating the 2 components. If a new tire won't stay aired up properly, GET RID OF IT!

I had major issues with a bfg mud terrain tires on my superduty. Had 3 new tires blow out in less than 250 miles. They were bought new, properly inflated, and not abused. Insurance said it was a manf. defect so no help. The root cause was BFG didn't put any glue on the casing to the tread package.

So beware when messing with tires. If you get a vibration, have it balanced. If it continues to vibrate, get rid of it. If you have one that looks new but won't stay aired up, get rid of it. It's cheap life insurance for both you and the other people on the road around you.

 

[98G]

I may have the wrong idea about tires, but I have always went by the dry rot on them. I've been running these tires for many years on several of my trucks, even my 97 Chevy crew cab Cummins dually pulling heavy trailers and everything. The only problem I have ever had out them is the front tires sometimes start cupping on the dually and start to get out of balance so I change them out. On it I don't rotate them because of the hassle for one with the billet rear spacers, and the rear ones wear completely even and last quite a long time. They're cheap and easy to replace so I just change the front ones occasionally as they start to wear. I am not one bit afraid of running these tires. I think they are just fine as long as you are not running the cracked up dry rotted ones. Just my 2 pennys


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At least two of the tires I blew had no visible dry rot and looked good. I had a g177 blow that was better than 90%.

Age, UV exposure, and heat kill tires.

I don't think tire age plays into the off road restriction. Otherwise we'd see it on all the vehicles.

Drive everything as if a tire might blow at any moment.

 

[Mr Cornbread]

I have been around tire business for most of my life, I ran a tire shop for a while. I have my own tire machine and balancer and tools in my garage. If they have been sitting flat for very long, they will almost always have the dry cracking in the one area alone and I don't run those. If they have been run low on air, then there will be marking on the sides where it was run low and I don't run those. If it don't hold air, I find out where it's leaking and why so if it is a problem, then I don't run them. These that I get have all been previously mounted so I know they are runnable (unless I find damage or an issue then I don't run them).
So with all that, I don't go by any date codes. I honestly don't care about the date, it's the physical shape of the tires that I worry about. I have never had one signal issue of any safety concern by checking them out the way I do. In your case, there's no way you (or anyone for that matter) could have known that they would fail.

 

[Action]

So, if low PSI can be bad for a tire, what about all the folks here that are running 20-30 psi? The 37" tires are rated for 50 psi cold. What is too low to run on the roads in these? I think mine are 40.

 

[Sintorion]

With older tires you could somewhat gauge failure potential by dry rot. Tire manufactures have put a lot of work into UV protection and use compounds in tread that last forever. This makes it hard to eyeball a potential failure and they tend to happen unannounced. Tires are basically sandwiches of dissimilar materials bonded together with heat and pressure. Natural rubber, synthetic rubber, nylon, rayon, steel, etc. make up the materials that are all layered together. Steel/rubber bond is the most common point of failure. Steel doesn't bond well with rubber and it is usually coated with copper to improve the adhesion. If you want to speed up a tread separation, get a puncture and use a moisture absorbing gas station plug.

 

[riderdan]

Lots of good points made here.

For me, I'm driving my truck frequently but not at highway speeds. I don't usually get her up over 45mph because in the town where I live that's the max speed limit of any street here in town. And that's on an empty stretch right on the north end of town for about two miles. About once a month I drive out to a friend's property to shoot, or down to church for a meeting. Both of those are right off the old highway where the speed limit is 55. I might get up to 50mph, but there's no one honking at me as I tootle along like there would be in the city. Here in small-town Kansas that's not an issue, because there are plenty of grain trucks, tractors, and other machines moving at slower-than-car speeds and people are (mostly) patient and attentive. It's pretty rare for more than three or four cars to pass me on my 20-mile trip.

I've had the truck on the freeway exactly twice: once diving it back from Tennessee and once going to a parade about 25 miles away. Both times I went 55 in the right lane with hazards on and a giant orange safety triangle on the back. The freeways were less traveled ones though. I'd never take the truck on highway 80 or California's 405.

All that said, if you're driving your truck at highway speeds, you obviously have to pay more attention. On the maintenance side, you have to be sure your tires are safe at 65mph (if your HMMWV will do that speed) and that you're doing your PMCS. On the driving side, you're in a 5600-pound vehicle that doesn't have anti-lock brakes (which a lot of you young whippersnappers grew up with) and that isn't designed with crumple zones, air bags, or any of those other newfangled features.

Be careful out there!

 

[Mr Cornbread]

We should all, always drive ready for anything to happen at any time, such as a tire blowing or anything else under the sun that can happen. I've never had any of these tires blow out (which could very possibly happen I know) and I've run them for years and run them cross country on two of my trucks. Only couple tires I have ever had to blow out were actually newer (good shape) tires with tons of tread and no damages. Which one was a new 18 wheeler tire.
That being said, I feel that the age of the tire is no concern because I have seen plenty more of "new" tire failure or ones that have sat out in the sun for years rotting to the point of blowing out, than I have any others. I am not knocking anyone's opinion by any means, I respect your opinions, I just know that I keep an eye on my tires and if I see a problem starting to happen then I fix or change it. And I don't worry about tire failure so much as it could happen to any tire at any time honestly so I just try to stay prepared for such a failure.


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