Tire shops that will install run flats on 395's / Hutchinson split rim

[Awesomeness]

All the tire failures I've had, the tire sidewall explodes and the tire is useless, runflat or not. Just personal opinion.

You and I have a completely different understanding of how runflats work, apparently. What you're aguing against is EXACTLY their purpose. You could drive on the runflat even with no tire (as long as you had a tire bead left to old it in place on the rim).

 

[aleigh]

I don't think we are necessarily disagreeing. All I am saying is that for the run flat to be useful, and I think we would probably agree here, the carcass of the tire has to remain intact sufficiently so that the tread and sidewall contain the run flat donut. The ones I have seen are not really attached to the rim. They just sit inside the tire and prop it up when pressure is lost, so you need the general tire shell at least somewhat to hold it on. It's not a tire inside a tire.

I've had 3 blowouts all on a population of the old 395 goodyears and the damage to the sidewall was so severe that I would not trust it to contain the donut and not completely separate for any distance at all. I've had a 395 steer go out at 55 and did not have significant loss of control. The side of the truck just sank.

I am not saying run flats are a bad idea. Or that people shouldn't use them. I am just passing along for conversations's sake that I don't bother.

 

[aleigh]

Also... to get back to OP, I don't know about the southeast, but here in the southwest, it's not hard to find places that will do it. The commercial truck tire places will generally do it - the places 18 wheelers go that specialize in tires - as will anyone who does heavy off-road equipment, construction equipment, tractors, etc. Also aviation. One way to find a place is to call your local cat dealer and ask who does equipment tires. There's always someone. A lot of times they can just come out in a truck. Prices seem to vary but it can run 100+ labor a tire, it's time consuming hard work, which is also why it's worth learning to do it yourself in the long haul (plus to be able to do it in the field). I've also had good luck just showing up at a place and frowning. It's one thing to call ahead and another to show up. A lot of times when they can see the job they'll be more inclined to do it, and there's always (seems to be) that one guy in the back who was in the military, and he comes out and is like oh yeah I used to do these all day long.

 

[Awesomeness]

the carcass of the tire has to remain intact sufficiently so that the tread and sidewall contain the run flat donut. The ones I have seen are not really attached to the rim. They just sit inside the tire and prop it up when pressure is lost, so you need the general tire shell at least somewhat to hold it on. It's not a tire inside a tire.

View attachment 747570View attachment 747571

The runflats are trapped on the rim because the two halves are bolted together. You do not need any of the tire carcass to remain to retain it.

Those are pretty nasty blowouts. How long did you drive on those after losing air pressure, and before these pictures?

I've also had good luck just showing up at a place and frowning. ... and there's always (seems to be) that one guy in the back who was in the military, and he comes out and is like oh yeah I used to do these all day long.

I've had the same experience around here.

 

[Jbulach]

Also... to get back to OP, I don't know about the southeast, but here in the southwest, it's not hard to find places that will do it. The commercial truck tire places will generally do it - the places 18 wheelers go that specialize in tires - as will anyone who does heavy off-road equipment, construction equipment, tractors, etc. Also aviation. One way to find a place is to call your local cat dealer and ask who does equipment tires. There's always someone. A lot of times they can just come out in a truck. Prices seem to vary but it can run 100+ labor a tire, it's time consuming hard work, which is also why it's worth learning to do it yourself in the long haul (plus to be able to do it in the field). I've also had good luck just showing up at a place and frowning. It's one thing to call ahead and another to show up. A lot of times when they can see the job they'll be more inclined to do it, and there's always (seems to be) that one guy in the back who was in the military, and he comes out and is like oh yeah I used to do these all day long.

Forget changing tires! We are talking about getting a 20” runflat back in a tire...

 

[coachgeo]

The runflats are trapped on the rim because the two halves are bolted together. You do not need any of the tire carcass to remain to retain it....?

Are you saying because rim is bolted from two halves are are you talking because composit run flats; which are bolted together halves?

 

[Awesomeness]

Because rim is bolted from two halves are are you talking about composit run flats which are bolted together halves?

No, you cannot get the runflat off without unbolting and separating the two halves of the rim. The inner diameter of the runflat is smaller than the outer diameter of the rim edges, so it can't come off (without destroying or stretching it, or some other catastrophic means). And, as long as the tire carcass's beads are still in place it is sandwiched in there side-to-side as well. (Picture is just from Googling, to demonstrate, and looks like it's actually for a HMMWV wheel.)



As for how to get the [non 3-piece composite] runflats in/out, the only manual way is to use something to compress them into a long skinny shape. The various methods of restraining the tire and using a truck/forklift/etc. to yank them out of the tire looks like it works getting them out, though you can't use it to get them into new tires. Like these (these are just from Googling "runflat compressor", and may not be the actual ones for FMTV wheels)...

 

[Jbulach]

The runflat is trapped tightly between the two tire beads and the wheel halves. The sidewalls or tread aren’t needed to hold it in, and your not going to tear the beads out of there.

 

[coachgeo]

No, you cannot get the runflat off without unbolting and separating the two halves of the rim. The inner diameter of the runflat is smaller than the outer diameter of the rim edges, so it can't come off (without destroying or stretching it, or some other catastrophic means). And, as long as the tire carcass's beads are still in place it is sandwiched in there side-to-side as well....

Thanks for clarification on RFlat debeading!

There is one video or two vid. out there showing the strap and the tool compress method of inserting RFlat the PDF show. Tis only methods seen thus far. Interesting the recent mention of threading them in.

 

[aleigh]

Forget changing tires! We are talking about getting a 20” runflat back in a tire...

What I meant is the shops will put the runflat in. I've had it done, before I gave up on them. I'm starting to wonder if there aren't different kinds based on some of the responses on this thread. The hutchinson style runflats I've seen, which I got via wheels that were already assembled, were basically donuts that cut in one position with a bolt that drew the halves together. Sorry I don't have a picture of this and I don't have any anymore, I threw them out. To insert it was not a big deal and did not require a special machine, just you put your back into it. You separate ends, and then it corkscrews in - you start with one and and just keep shoving until you've forced the entire thing in. A cheater bar or pipe helps. Then you bolt the two halves together which draws the ends together. Then you assemble the rim.

Maybe there are other kinds though. It's interesting. As to the concept that the thing is captured by the wheel compression, maybe, but the ones that I have worked with it wasn't so apparent that's what was happening. The reason I say that is they were inside the tire rim when installed and there was a fair bit of a gap. Then again who knows - maybe they were the wrong size. And note I am not talking about the bead locker whatever it is insert rubber thing. I do use those, so my tires aren't empty.

Always ready to learn.

 

[Jbulach]

What I meant is the shops will put the runflat in. I've had it done, before I gave up on them.

Give me the name of the place you used...

 

[Awesomeness]

What I meant is the shops will put the runflat in. I've had it done, before I gave up on them.

What other kinds of similar-sized commercial or industrial tires use those same kinds of runflats? As in, "A tire place that is use to seeing <THIS TYPE OF VEHICLE>'s tires, will be use to installing those big rubber runflats and thus have the tools/compressor."?

Do things like front end loaders use them?


My pictures posted earlier bring up another question... is there a manual for the various types of FMTV wheels, tires, runflats, and beadlocks, that would describe all this and the tools used?

 

[aleigh]

Give me the name of the place you used...

Purcell Tire & Service.

 

[aleigh]

... also I can't help but feel this thread is getting oddly antagonistic. So let me tell you how this went, for me, personally, this one time. You all can just like - take this for what its' worth, which maybe is nothing at all. I bought a bunch of wheels because I wanted the goodyears, like a pallet of them. They were the aluminium wheels with the GY 395s. I don't think they came off a FMTV because the lug pattern was not compatible. I've done 3-4 changes myself by this point but I couldn't be bothered so I took the tires in and had them transferred. The guys tore the wheels apart and they had the things and I was like sure keep them, so they just figured it out and mounted them. Later I blew one out and it didn't seem to help much. I put it in anyways though in the replacement because the other 4 tires had them. It went in as I described, just took a lot of force, and I used like a six foot tire iron thing someone gave me. Then later when I switched to michelins I just threw them all out and haven't looked back.

 

[coachgeo]

Will a HMMV run flat install tool work on FMTV or larger tires (1400 R20)? I suspect the strap would be too short?

 

[Jbulach]

Purcell Tire & Service.

And, where was it located? We are talking about the 20” that you dont use, not HMMWV tires correct?

 

[Awesomeness]

Will a HMMV run flat install tool work on FMTV or larger tires (1400 R20)? I suspect the strap would be too short?

I don't know. That's why I was asking if there was a manual. The HMMWV manuals seem to detail the tire disassembly and assembly process pretty thoroughly, even specifying the runflat compressors and their part numbers. The FMTV manuals only show the beadlocks, and don't say a whole lot. I currently assume the HMMWV runflat compressor would not work on the FMTV runflats, either because of size or strength, but I could be wrong.

 

[aleigh]

And, where was it located? We are talking about the 20” that you dont use, not HMMWV tires correct?

Shop is in phoenix off I-17. If you are hoping to call to fact-check me, they might remember the army truck guy. It was a year or two ago. Maybe I can find copies of my receipts but their security cam footage has probably expired if that's what you were hoping for... Yes, 395 tires on R20 rims as I described. Maybe the run-flats were for another vehicle and that is contributing to the confusion vs whatever style the FMTVs might have come with.

Here's another thread that talks about them coming on those al wheels... https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?84825-Are-Runflats-worth-trying-to-save

Now I really wish I had taken a picture!

 

[aleigh]

ok so I googled around and I see that there are different kinds of run flats. There are the kind that seem to be one piece and I can see how you'd need some kind of crazy setup to get that in. And there are kinds that are split. I found a picture of the style I am linking here - mine were black, R20 sized, and used a bolt to draw together the halves. Note this picture is just SIMILAR.

 

[Jbulach]

Shop is in phoenix off I-17. If you are hoping to call to fact-check me, they might remember the army truck guy. It was a year or two ago. Maybe I can find copies of my receipts but their security cam footage has probably expired if that's what you were hoping for... Yes, 395 tires on R20 rims as I described. Maybe the run-flats were for another vehicle and that is contributing to the confusion vs whatever style the FMTVs might have come with.

Here's another thread that talks about them coming on those al wheels... https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?84825-Are-Runflats-worth-trying-to-save

Now I really wish I had taken a picture!

Dont bother with the receipt, so they changed some tires for you, without video I’m still calling BS. You come here telling us how easy it is and we need to learn how to do it in the field. Then get all defensive and start talking circles when questions are asked.