Today's tale of woe and a question

[moreorles2]

First- my heartfelt thanks for all the postings on duece operation and maintenance. Because of those postings I was able to troubleshoot my problem today. I took my M35A2C out for the first time this spring. It started up on the first crank and I let it warm up for 20 minutes before my trek. I did the pre-check walk around for leaks and everything looked good. I drove about 5 miles and it died. Doing some G2- I noticed that I had a significant amount of fuel on the driver side undercarriage. It was coming from the fuel supply pump attached below the IP. Taking a closer look, you could see the cracks around the fuel inlet fitting on the casting. Normally this would not be a problem- just messy- but it now looks like my in-tank fuel pump either is or was not functional. My gut feel is that crack just happened and the fuel tank pump was probably never working since I purchased the Deuce 18 months ago. No, it was not the fuse because where the fuse should have been was a metal rod acting as a conductor- so much for the need for a fuse.
I had over a dozen folks stop and ask if I needed assistance. One young gentleman even towed me 100 feet to get out of the intersection were it died. He was on R&R from the Desert and said that he could not wait until he got back to his buddies and told them that he had towed a Deuce with his new Chevy pickup. His next question was-- you're not a Ford guy are you??? . I lied and told him no.
Bottom line- some neighbors came to my rescue with a spare 12 volt fuel pump that we plumbed into the line and a spare 12V jump/charger rig -we got it going and home. Bubble gum rig but it worked for the 5 miles that I needed.
Whew- now my questions- looking at TM 9-2910-226-34 for the IP -and the location of the fuel supply pump assembly- can this be removed/replaced as is or does one have to raise the motor off the mounts to get at it? I'm thinking that it is going to be a major effort to replace whereas the in tank fuel pump will be easy. I might just want to try some of the epoxy sealing kits on the exterior of the pump casting to see if I can get it to stop dripping. With a working in-tank pump- I should not have to worry about the fuel supply pump sucking air- my quess as to why it died today - Any experience or success with a particular brand of epoxy?
Thanks in advance----> Les

 

[WillWagner]

RE: Today

Les, first off, sorry you're a Ford guy . Just kidding! I don't think epoxy will work for you. Diesel has a bad habbit of getting through everything, so the bottom of the pump will most likely need to be removed. Don't how to do it, I have never had a pump off or apart. Maybe cranetruck, rdixiemiler or Recovery4x4 will know that. As for the sucking air, if the bottom of the pump is cracked, yes, it will pull air into the system. If the in tank pump were working, you'd most likely have a drip/stream of fuel on the ground with the engine off and when the engine was running it would suck the air from the cracks. That part of the pump builds the in tank 10 PSI or so into 65-70 PSI. Take pictures. Sometimes it's easier to give advice if a person can see the issue.

 

[jasonjc]

RE: Today

You can take the IP off in the truck. But read up on it in the TM frist. You have to line a few thing up frist. It will be easyer for you to read it from the TM with pic's then me to typ it.

 

[hndrsonj]

you must read the pubs before revoving. It is easy just follow the steps.

 

[cranetruck]

Les, the pump on the IP can easily be removed. It is attached with two 7/16 head cap screws.
There must be about 3 inches of clearance to pull it straight out.
I have a spare if you need it.

I'm surprised about the casting cracking, it's very heavy, you are sure it's not just the elbow fitting?

PS. My '69 XM757 8x8 is a Ford and I love it!

 

[moreorles2]

Bjorn- PM me with the details on your fuel supply pump. Looking at the TM from the attached pix- I need the "G" version. But, getting the pump now appears to be the least of my problems. I got under the Deuce this AM with a drop light and my problem is that the pump is hitting the steering box- see attached photo. The photo illustrates where the casting has been worn by one of the bolt heads from the box so the FS pump's operational life is going to be short. There is no way that the FS pump can be replaced without removing the IP from what I see here. The question is now- why the lack of any clearance? My rig is a Togas rebuild with only about 15K miles on it so I doubt if the front engine mounts could be in question? It makes no sense to replace the pump without solving the clearance issue. Any thoughts from the motor pool?

 

[cranetruck]

You may need to check your engine mounts, there is blurp about this in a PS Magazine note (can't find it easily).

It looks like my pump is the kind you need. It's a take-off, so no guaranties.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Looks like your front mounts are shifting around. I just pulled the IP off my parts truck, slid it back and dropped it out the bottom. If you have to replace the IP, you will need to remove the radiator to allow access to the front of the engine. The pump drive gear must be removed before the pump will come out.
You will want to download TM9-2815-210-34-2-2. Print out 3-24 to 3-38, and 5-172 to 5-186. That will give the procedures to pull the lines loose and get the IP removed and replaced. Read the timing section carefully, that is a critical step you don't want to screw up.
Fix the motor mounts first. The only other thing would be a bent frame, or loose steering box.

 

[moreorles2]

Thanks for the suggestion- Rdixiemillier- I took another good look at the steering box, frame and mounts. The frame is true and the box as per the attached photos is secure. The engine mounts look OK but I guess that all it would take is 3/4 inch of "droop" to put me in the fix I'm in. The mounts and the bolts are all aligned and there does not appear to be any play in the assembly. I'll post some additional photos here to see if anyone spots anything funky. Plan of action is to replace the mounts first then remove the IP pump to replace the fuel supply pump. AHHHH- the joys of owning a deuce !!!!

Thanks again---> Les

Bjorn- thanks for the offer of the pump. With all the work needed to replace the FSP, I think that I'll bite the bullet and see if I can find a NOS one.

 

[red devils dude]

mount one and two do not look right I just replaced mine and they are supposed to be thick like 2 inches yours
look very flat but yours could be different then mine(mine being the new and the old parts).

 

[rdixiemiller]

I agree with Jed. Those front mounts look really squashed! Try a pair of mounts, see what that does.

 

[shenkmen]

Fuel Supply Pump Leak and Lube Questions

I have fuel leaking from my fuel supply pump cover.

Are items "D" and "E" in the first pic lubricated by fuel? The oil seal "C" in the first pic and the passage below "E" in the second pic make me think so.

I just want to make sure I have fuel leaking from where it could be expected to leak from.



Thanks much

 

[gimpyrobb]

"D" and "E" are what pump the fuel.

 

[welldigger]

I have fuel leaking from my fuel supply pump cover.

Are items "D" and "E" in the first pic lubricated by fuel? The oil seal "C" in the first pic and the passage below "E" in the second pic make me think so.

I just want to make sure I have fuel leaking from where it could be expected to leak from.

View attachment 463142 View attachment 463143

Thanks much

You are correct. Mine was leaking from the same place. Check your engine oil to make sure you aren't "making" oil. That double lip seal keeps fuel on one side and engine oil on the other. If your pump cover gasket is leaking I would suspect that seal is also.

 

[shenkmen]

Ahh yes, the gears do the pumping. Thanks gents.