Towing M105 behind Jeep Wrangler

[jbingvtx]

or wiper blades.

 

[bobbed818]

Hoodie, If you wish to keep the hydralic axle that is under the trailer now, you can install an electric over hydralic pump on the trailer, and an electronic brake controller in the jeep and have more brakes than you know what to do with as long as the brakes on the trailer are in good working condition. The other option is to replace the axle as mentioned above. Depending on how much $$ you want to spend, you can replace the axle to lighten the trailer and get an 8 on 6.5 bolt pattern to match the jeep, and go with electric brakes or hydralic brakes. PM me or give me a call if you have any questions. I can get all the parts you need for the conversion and I don't think I'm too far from Spring Hill. Keith 863-781 1861

 

[saddamsnightmare]

January 4th, 2010.

hoodiegadoo:

I think that your question has been answered here by other members. There was a modification done to the M105A3 trailers to fit them with government specified surge brakes to enable them to operate with the HMMWV's, which did not have air brake capability. This modification, if you can find the parts on salvage may solve your problem. The other solution might beto find a deuce trailer brake controller, like the trailer brake controllers on tractor trailers, and apply it to your Jeep to get some form of control on the trailers brakes. However, I don't believe that it is automatic in operation (it wouldn't be much use on panic stops) and it doesn't offer the automatic proportioning feature that was built into the deuce's service brake system. The other thing to think about is that the trailer brakes may consume more air on repeated applications then your Jeeps compressor may be able to handle, as it can strain the deuce's air brake system now and then by consuming too much air on steep or repeated downgrade speed reductions.
The last thought is that you will want to be absolutely certain that your Jeeps rear frame crossmember can withstand whatever buff forces that this trailer could generate in a panic stop, even more so then draft forces generated in starting, because your gas tank is very, very near that crossmember. Stopping is the crux of the matter, and even the factory designed brake systems on these trucks and trailers can do some unpredictable things. An M105A2 with inoperative air brakes can even let a much heaver (13,480Lb) deuce know its hooked up back there. I speak from experience on that one.
I had a military prototyped 1989 Ford F250 4X4 with 1.5 ton front and rear axles, 2 ton rear springs, super ultra low first gear that somehow escaped the factory. It was used to shift a 48,500 lb C7P baywindow caboose around the railroad yards when we couldn't get a locomotive for the job. Starting's always easy, but the truck did not have universal (Automatic) railroad air brakes, and the brakeman had to be very alert to control the cabin car because the truck could not do it.
Give it your best shot on the modifications and let us know how it turns out. You may end up with enough in that new axle to buy a M101. In any case, I do not wish you your 15 minutes of television air time as Andy Warhol used to say, if it involves some avoidable problem.
The media's always looking for something to beat on, just be sure that it's neither you nor I....
Good luck and Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[vtdeucedriver]

I dont remember if this was mentioned. But if I had read this thread right. You also plan on taking the trailer off road???? What is the current hitch set up???? Are you using a standard 3/4t pintal hook??? I dont know if you have seen a pintal of a M35 or M54 but it is bigger. Not to mention that the pintal is made to rotate on a military vehicle. Does yours rotate on your Jeep???

I know it does not answer your question but its just some thoughts.

 

[Angus1]

wranglers have been manufactured with coils for over a decade now and my fenders were sitting in the shop while those pictures were taken. However, they still look similar and are legal in florida. While I really appreciate your concern about my fenders that also has nothing to do with my thread thanks.

I was just curious about the fender law, take it easy.

 

[Wolf.Dose]

It took me some 20 minutes to read me through all these posts about a M105 trailer behind a Jeep Wrangler.
To make a summery of that, hoodiegadoo, the Jeep wrangler is designed for 500 lbs unbraked and 2000 lbs braked trailer weigth.
If you want to pull a M105, you MUST install a air supply source that deliveres 90 to 120 psi pressure and a air trailer brake valve actuated by the hydraulic circuits of your Wrangler brake, I guess a TJ type. This type of valve is available in Europe but NOT in the US.
So saddamsnightmare said all what you have to accept in the US to stay legal, the facts left were stated by Texas Manny. Both are 100% right to stay in the legal range of towing a trailer.
Besides all, your modifications according to US legal rights say simply that all allowences given by the manufacturer (ex. towed load) are reduced to 0, which means no more trailer (beside the emmission issue).
I as a government approved motor vehicle inspector recommend to reduce to a so called Jeep trailer (Bantam T2, M100, M101). The M105 minimun towing vehicle is a M35-series truck. If you do not follow that you have to pay any costs of any kind of accident by yourself according to US legal rights. The insurance will not cover anything!
Also I doubt that you have the propper pintle for that trailer and your Wrangler can handle the tongue load, which is of a Wrangler a maximum of about 200 lbs for the rear cross member.
So:FORGET IT !
Wolf
Dipl.Ing.
officially recognized motor vehicle expert

 

[KsM715]

I say build it and pull it. OFF ROAD ONLY!! On road your just taking to much of a chance with other peoples lives. After a couple of trails either you are going to want to get rid of it or others on the trail will want you to get rid of it.

 

[Texas Manny]

I say build it and pull it. OFF ROAD ONLY!! On road your just taking to much of a chance with other peoples lives. After a couple of trails either you are going to want to get rid of it or others on the trail will want you to get rid of it. How much s--- do you need to take on the trail anyways?

Sorry, but he's at an even greater, different type of risk OFFROAD. That trailer will easily put his jeep on its side should the ground give way. It could easily overtax his drivetrain and braking capability going down hill, especially if his brakes are clogged up with MUD or other debris. In short, humbly I submit, there is NO ACCEPTABLE combination for any jeep and the M105. To err is human. To err knowingly without regard to consequence is STUPIDITY.

 

[bryan70546]

well no one has said it I will THANK YOU FOR YOU SERVICE

 

[DUG]

I say build it and pull it. OFF ROAD ONLY!! On road your just taking to much of a chance with other peoples lives. After a couple of trails either you are going to want to get rid of it or others on the trail will want you to get rid of it.

Just wondering, how does one get the M105 trailer to the "OFF ROAD ONLY" spot? I'm guessing he would need to put it all on another trailer or store it at the "OFF ROAD ONLY" location 7/24?

I'm also wondering what will be put in such a heavy duty trailer and towed on technical routes?

There are MANY better options than a M105 trailer.............................

 

[Recovry4x4]

OK, for the original poster, I have a few questions, assumptions (I know) and maybe a suggestion. First, can you give a little info on why you want the 105 for your trail trailer in the first place? My guess was mostly price as they are a pretty inexpensive trailer to purchase. If you just have to have 9' of bed then I understand. Do you need 1 1 /2 ton capacity? I would assume (there goes that assumption assumption) that for an off road trailer, most would be looking at something a little lighter. I know trails in FL and falling off the side is a non issue, there are no sides to a flat state. The reason I bring up all these questions is because I have a specific trailer in mind that seems much more ideal for a trail trailer. Not saying you cant engineer the 105 to work but in the end where will you be on costs after adding a new axle, wheels and tires as well as a surge coupler. Unless you get this stuff used, it's going to be costly. I suggest you research the M101A3 trailer. It has factory surge brakes, 1 ton capacity, 37" HMMWV tires and rims, 8' bed and is only 1500#. Add just a tad it of suspension lift and you can run 40" tires (think spares) on it. It also has a wicked looking stepped up axle for maximum trail clearance. If coupler height is an issue, it could be reasonably modded to suit your trail rig or you can set up a slight drop hitch head with a pintle. I've also seen folks put a 105 body on the M116A3 trailer for the best of both worlds. To see both trailers, take a look at this thread. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/trailers/38770-got-my-a3-trailers-home.html Not trying to change your mind on making the 105 work, just offering a suitable option now that I know what your needs are!9

 

[davidkroberts]

I have had many jeeps and many trailers and own two jeeps and a M101 trailer now. Please dont do this, it wont be safe. The amount of modification necessary to make this work will make it not worth the effort. The tongue weight is too high its going to put tons of stress on a suspension and driveline thats been modified far outside of design. Your asking a Jeep to pull and stop a trailer that outweighs it by 1000 lbs. I know its a modified jeep and the components were designed to take this type of load but not as the are used on this vehicle.

I have a M101 i paid 440 dollars for from GL. It is a great trailer that would be suitable behind a jeep. The cost associated with getting this to work are going to cost more than another trailer. It would be easier to modify a M105 to tow you jeep than to modify it to tow behind it.

I believe im speaking for most of the forum when i say you might get this to work but it will never be safe. Like any machine (especially modified ones) when its stressed the weakest link will fail. This trailer will dynamite some part on your truck and might get someone hurt. I dont think this is such a hot idea.

 

[swbradley1]

I sold my friend a 105 with bows and cover and within three months he traded it back to me to get my M101. He is using a full sized Chevy Suburban and the 105 just went everywhere that it wanted to.



I do want to see the pics no matter what you end up doing.

sw

 

[vtdeucedriver]

I sold my friend a 105 with bows and cover and within three months he traded it back to me to get my M101. He is using a full sized Chevy Suburban and the 105 just went everywhere that it wanted to.



I do want to see the pics no matter what you end up doing.

sw

Brought mine home behind my cousins F-350 and it just was not right. Big little trailer for a big truck.

Loved towing it behind the deuce................my only complaint was backing it up. I had no bows on the trailer and with the tailgate up, you cant see it. I am sure that most of you know the rest of the story.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

January 5th, 2010.

Gentlemen:

I have noticed an abscence of feedback from Mr. Hoodiegadoo, perhaps he has had a little too much reality from us for the weekend? Personally, I love having an M105A2 to be towed by the M35A2 in my icon. When the trailer brakes are cut out, you know that beast is back there, when they are cut in..... only the shadow on the pavement tells you it is there and on sharp turns. My Unimog is rated much higher then the Jeep mentioned above as for towing capacity, but as the Swiss did not normally apply trailer air to the S.404.114's, it is about all a Unimog of that type can do to handle this trailer at low speeds (plus the wiring harness is dissimilar in layout for the trailer plug) around the yard.
Many people believe because the components individually can handle such and such a load, or such and such a maneuver, that put togather on a vehicle they should uprate the vehicle's capacity. I would agree if our friends Jeep had rockwells off a deuce, springs off a deuce and an air brake system off a deuce, but the weak link in the jeep is the unstable suspension and weak frame members. I have seen the rock crawler Jeeps, and for toys, they are interesting. They don't have the strength and capacity of the Unimog, and are far under the strength and capacity of a stock M35A2. Regrettably, someone is likely to go on a fool's errand around here, and once the TV shows get a hold of the wreck footage, we are all gonna pay one way or the other, and that is the nature of humans, a wise man does not need advice and a fool will not heed advice.

Just my two cents worth, as we have pretty stiff. Now lets see what the DOT says....

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

NB: January 5th, 2010.

An addition to the above for reply to folks posting down below. I might say that in my time I have operated more diverse equipment then most folks ever get to, often in construction and railroad work, and yes, I have many miles of offroad experience going places that most folks would not go if they had a choice. But, to get the job done safely was job one, and the deuce when treated with respect can handle an M105A2 in most conditions. No road legal modified Jeep has that capability, and it is joined to a light, weak frame. Light and weak in comparison to either the Unimog, which was expressly designed as an extreme off road working tractor/or truck, and the M35 series, which is expressly more an off road truck then an on road truck. Not very many on road trucks have the cab back supported on a nest of springs to allow for off road conditions. If Wolf Dose says that it is probably ill advised, and many experienced members think it is ill advised.... it probably is.
If the man wants to kill himself off road with a poorly designed and overloaded derivitive of an light reconnoisance truck (for that is what the Jeep was designed for), I say have at it, and good luck. But, again, I need to remind us all that all it is gonna take is one hotshot to bring down the Federal DOT on our ears with one spectacular accident that involves innocent bystanders....... I will bet that the Florida State Police will take an interest in the resultant vehicle the first time they see it on the road, or they aren't doing their jobs protecting the travelling public.

I will await the results on YouTube and hope that they do not make Fox News or some other news channel. Wisdom is being wise enough not to push the envelope too far....

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[70deuce]

Pulling an M105 with a Wrangler will bring out every Murphy"s Law there is. Without braking from that trailer a panic stop will have that trailer going first in front of you. The tonque weight alone is too much on that Jeep. Way too much weight on there rear. I have moved my 105 around the house and it needs a pintle hitch adjusted all the way up to make sure the landind gear wheels clear the ground even when the landing gear is latched up. After picking up my M101 from GL with the Wrangler and driving home 60 miles I realized that was pushing the safety limits with a Wrangler.

 

[Sephirothq]

Have you guys ever tried pushing (by hand) a 105 around empty?

 

[dittle]

Have you guys ever tried pushing (by hand) a 105 around empty?

On flat concrete yes I have. Its heavy as **** but once you get it going it goes and goes and then it drags you along as you try to stop it..........

 

[Bad_Carp]

I think this thread has run it's course based on the lack of feedback by the OP. At this point it has been clearly stated several times that a M105 behind a Wrangler (even a fixed up rock crawler) is a really bad idea.

At this point the OP has either seen the errors of the idea and has walked away from the idea, or is just ignoring the reality of the situation because he already purchased the M105 and is going to go thru with the plan even if it puts himself and others in harms way.

I have a Wrangler with a V-8, 7k of suspension upgrades, etc...and there is no way in **** I would try to pull a M105 behind it...that's what the M109 is for.

 

[Snarky]

I just purchased a M105 that will fit nicely behing my jeep wrangler and I think I'm just going to splice in a flat 4 plug for the lights but I want to be able to use the trailer brakes as well. What do I need to get that setup in the jeep? All I could find on here was that I needed an airpack? But I can't seem to find where I'd get one. I already have onboard air and an airtank installed on the jeep. Thanks in advance.

Some people here are a bit melodramatic to say the least.

The solution to your problem is simple I think, one: either switch your axle over to a heavy duty civy trailer axle with electronic brakes, or: switch out your hitch to a hydraulic surge brake style. Messing around with an airpack is just a waste of time IMO.

The M105 is not the monster people say it is. I drove it 400 miles towed behind a 99' F-250 normal duty gasser with a 5.4L, you could barely tell it was there, it wasn't a big deal at all. I've seen people load multiple M105's and even a deuce on on a trailer towed by an F-350 with no problems, I don't understand why anyone would have issues towing a single M105.

I tow it around occasionally with my FJ Cruiser, to move it from my house and shop and back again because the deuce is nearly impossible to back up with it linked. Aside from the terrible noise the trailer makes in it's hitch, it's not really a big deal. My FJ has a 5000# towing capacity with a 500# hitch capacity, which the M105 would only breach if fully loaded down.

I imagine that a jeep built up for rock crawling, with heavier duty suspension and axle, with a heavy duty hitch would have little issues with the M105, other than the previously mentioned braking issues. However, this isn't an offroad forum, the majority of people here don't really 'get it' that a vehicle can be upgraded beyond what the manufacturer intended. Here, if it deviates beyond the technical manual, it's wrong, because manufacturers design everything perfect, especially if they are affiliated with the military-industrial complex.

You would have had more success posting a thread on "Converting an M105 to civilian use" rather than converting a civilian vehicle to use military trailers. *shrug*

I think the M105 is more dangerous behind a deuce than a jeep. You can not see it! You can not hear it! You don't even know it's there unless your deuce is particularly powerless for some reason. If my M105 had a flat tire being towed behind my M35A2, I don't even know if I would be able to sense it with all the rattling, exhaust noise and limited visibility the deuce offers. Nothing against my deuce, but if we're talking danger, give credit where credit is due.

Edit: I didn't read the other 5 pages because I thought it was full of more attack threads, the surge brake system and axle replacement were already mentioned.