Towing Safety (Please Read)

[m1010plowboy]

Hauling Green Steel Soldier

- Spare tire, jack and tools for the trailer.
- Load distribution on axles/ tongue. Ensure enough load on tongue to prevent sway......and possible roll over. Very important!

These two items come to mind immediately....call it experience. I also trained the fingers to touch hubs and axles when I jump out of the truck. It's nice to know if they are running cool. This is especially important on a trailer under a Steel Soldier.

It sounds like you're good on proper tie down, inspection times, fire extinguisher, flares, insurance/ registration docs for trailer and all the legal stuff so.......fold in the mirrors and step on the gas.

Here's a big page of links to all types of "Tie Down" applications. Enjoy the pull!

Military Surface Deployment and Distribution Command Transportation Engineering Agency (SDDCTEA)

 

[smashcrashy]

Thanks m1010plowboy,

This PDF talks about crossing or not crossing for truck movement on page 9 (default is not crossed but explains when crossing should be used) and general trailer loads on page 83

http://www2.tea.army.mil/pubs/nr/deploy/fgpamphlets/Pam_55-20_45.pdf

 

[quickfarms]

After reading this I need to figure a different way to Chain thing down on my flatbed without having the chains outside of the bed

 

[smashcrashy]

That manual said you should cross chains if the chain run was too short for the binder you are using.

It will be possible that my chain runs would only be 3-4 feet and the binder takes up 2.5-3 of those, is that too short? What is the advantage of longer runs?

 

[JH1]

When you cross the chains, be sure to have the tie points somewhat to the rear of the load and to the front of the load. By that I mean don't run from the left rear of the load straight across to the right side of the trailer. If you do, the load can jostle fore and aft, and when that happens you introduce huge stresses on the chains. Say you have an 8' wide trailer and a 8' wide load. Run one chain from the left rear of the load over to a point on the right side of the trailer, maybe 4 or more feet to the rear of the load. That does two things. It keeps the load from shifting sideways and it keeps the load from lurching forward in a hard stop. You're not likely to do jack rabbit starts, so you don't need so much angle on the front chains but the rear ones are the ones that will keep your load out of your back seat if you have a sudden stop (much more likely).

If using ratcheting binders (good stuff), place them close to the outside edge of the trailer, so that the handles sit on the bed to prevent rotating and loosening.

After you load up and 'twang' the chains to make sure they are tight, take a small hammer and hit the chains right where they wrap around your load. More often than not, the chains will suddenly get a little looser, as the individual link repositions itself on the load. Stop and recheck the load after a mile or so, particularly on bumpy roads.

It goes without having to say, but make sure the brakes are engaged on the loaded vehicle.

One last item: If you are using a spotter to help direct you onto the trailer, it's usually easier to back on instead of drive forward onto the trailer because when you are driving straight on, you will lose sight of him at the critical time you are going up the ramp. If you back on, the nose of your vehicle dips down and you have a full view of him at all times. Plus, when you offload, you are driving forward.
Jim

 

[zebedee]

That manual said you should cross chains if the chain run was too short for the binder you are using.

It will be possible that my chain runs would only be 3-4 feet and the binder takes up 2.5-3 of those, is that too short? What is the advantage of longer runs?

No, so long as you have enough slack before tightening that you can tighten without using a 6' scaffold pipe (cheater bar/tube). It is possible to just use the binders - if the tie down points - trailer and load(vehicle) are at the right distance apart. However, often the binder handle will interfere with the trailer or load (depending on which way round you use them), this is unacceptable. The binder should be free to close all the way and be "moused" with spare chain, zip tie or chord as per that military pamphlet that you found.

Also binders have clutch hooks which are narrow and only hold the correct size chain or flat steel a'la the side strip on the outside edge of flat beds/trailers - but they can damage stuff.

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

One last item: If you are using a spotter to help direct you onto the trailer, it's usually easier to back on instead of drive forward onto the trailer because when you are driving straight on, you will lose sight of him at the critical time you are going up the ramp. If you back on, the nose of your vehicle dips down and you have a full view of him at all times. Plus, when you offload, you are driving forward.
Jim

I disagree. Our vehicles aren't designed to go 45+ mph in reverse. It is fuel inefficient and could possibly cause damage. Load facing forward and use a spotter off to your front left. You shouldn't have a spotter on the trailer directly in front of you. If you can't handle getting the load on the trailer properly then you shouldn't be towing the load either.

 

[zebedee]

Let's not forget that armoured vehicles - like the Ferret in question, are often loaded rearwards, though I do see your point when towing a big old flappety Army truck, the rear canvas would kind of act as a parachute.

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

^yes, some things are an aerodynamic brick going either direction

I learned when I was young that hand guards on an ATV can be ripped off when towing it on a trailer backwards.

 

[JH1]

The question was in regard to a Ferret, which is armoured and has nothing to flap. I agree about hauling a deuce backwards from a canvas point of view. I was commenting from a safety point of view. We load a 39,000 pound British tracked vehicle, which drives on the right and I can tell you from first hand experience that the spotter disappears when loading on forwards, even when they are standing on the goose neck. Loading heavy vehicles is dangerous, and takes learning, thinking, planning, and practice. The aforementioned two cent opinion is worth every penny.
Jim

 

[m1010plowboy]

Towing Safety

There are as many ways to tie down a load as there are people. All of them are correct until something bad happens.

We use over sized chains and tight, lever boomers, sassy yellow keepers on the handles and cross chain if it's easier. Front facing / Back facing, consideration for things falling off in the 50mph wind is all important. Knowing how your weight is distributed and ensuring tongue weight will keep you alive.
How Not To Drive With a Trailer - TrashCars.net

New DOT rules here ask for:

Chain stamped with rating on every 5th link.
Hook stamped with rating.
Straps must have manufacturer tag displaying rating.

The Alberta info is here:
http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType276/Production/Module12.pdf

If the Ferret motor was in the back, I'd back it on.
If there was a 454 with a blower in the front, I'd drive it on.

Having the correct length of trailer for the load is also a bonus. The 24' trailer below is carrying the extreme of load forward and is near the maximum tongue weight.

 

[indy4x4fab]

I figured I would post up a few pics of when we towed my m818 on 11-20 behind tim's m813 on 16r20.

 

[smashcrashy]

Without a scale how do I figure out if I have propper tongue weight?

 

[bearboley]

I dunno, I've seen some guys that cross their chains.........but while in the Towing and Recovery business for 10 years, I never crossed my chains. Neither did any of the other tow companies that I visited or stopped by for a pick up....The only people I've seen do that are the hobbyists.

Even Underdog Towing didn't cross his chains on a 23,00 lb load.........

C'dub

You where doing it wrong for ten years. Trucks generally don't need cross chained but anything with tracks does because it will slide sideways if not crossed. I have been hauling 20years and my observation has been when chained just to the corners the load will shift sideways and in the direction the chain is pulling and the chain on the other side will come loose. Cross chained loads this seems not to happen. I also use the rule one chain for every two tons of load,so to haul a duece proper it needs four chains.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Estimating vehicle weight distribution

Without a scale how do I figure out if I have propper tongue weight?

I dislike the guess word but until it's scaled.....it's all you have.

Who has scaled a Ferret and knows the actual axle weights?

Looking at it....and from a design perspective, it should be very close to equal front and rear.....but that's just a guess.

Knowing the over-all weight of the ferret at 3.7 tonne Ferret armoured car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's lighter then my lightest 'skid steer' at 3.8 tonne.

Estimating weight distribution would take things into consideration like......steel or aluminum engine, turret placement, armor, and maybe even fuel. 200 gallons is almost a ton.

While driving onto the trailer there is a point when the entire load is over the axles. On a couple of my trailers that is the point where I can lift the pintle off the hitch, by hand, with 8000 lbs sitting on the trailer.

As the load moves forward on the trailer, the 'sag' on the towing vehicle begins to become apparent. Ideally you pull forward until approx. 10% of the load is on the tongue. That will visibly push the back of the truck down (approx. 1" on my duramax) and should give you about 800 lbs of tongue weight plus the trailer tongue weight. So in the case of the 12' ferret....and aSSuming even weight of both axles, stop once the front of the Ferret is approx. 4.5 feet ahead of the front axle.

You should know that while laying out all the info, I am sleep deprived and this is a guideline to be followed without me having any responsibility or knowledge of what I say. It's good you're doing the homework. My 'opinion' is based on regulations and experience and that does not always make it right....only right for me.

The first symptom of 'load too far back' can happen over 30mph but usually waits until you're doing 50mph. You'll notice a slight pull on the steering wheel left to right and within seconds.........well, you saw the video. It only happened to me once and it happened at 60mph. We were hauling an awkward 3000 lb 1960's horse drawn milk wagon. At the first, slight pull of the steering wheel, I grabbed the brake controller and had "pre-set" the strength at 80%. It was in full 'sway mode' within seconds. The brakes grabbed square and even, I was sure not to "over-steer" to correct it and embarrassingly wiggled my load to the shoulder in front of a pile of shocked, quality drivers. I did not need to clean my shorts for I am a professional....tight a$$.

If this happens to you, grabbing the brake controller switch and applying "trailer brakes only' MAY allow you to get control again. Once in control apply truck brakes. Hammering on truck brakes without having a controller properly set up (or without a delay setting for trailer) will jam that load through your truck. Practise 'blindly' reaching for the brake controller....after you have pre-set your trailer brake load (usually on side of controller) so you can feel them slightly grab while lightly depressing vehicle's brake pedal.

The best case is that after the load is on, the truck and trailer are running flat and parallel to the ground. My hitches are all at 21" off the ground with most trailers slightly higher at the front when empty. When loaded, my trucks and trailers normally sit 'flat' like a lake.

Fly me down, feed and house me and I'll do the leg work. I pulled my first load in 1981 and haven't killed anyone or flipped a load yet.......I GUESS the day is early.

The last picture is staged to show what NOT to do.

 

[zebedee]

Without a scale how do I figure out if I have propper tongue weight?

It's not like there is an actual figure that you are shooting for. Just measure the bumper to ground of the back of the towing vehicle, with the trailer hooked up but empty. Then when you load, initially this will increase as the tail heavy trailer lifts the tow vehicle. As the Ferret moves forward on the trailer (in reverse or otherwide) that height will return to original dimention - at that point there is no more nose weight than the empty trailer, keep going up the trailer untill the trailer pushes down on the tow vehicle to reduce that dimention by only a couple of inches more - that is sufficient. Too much nose weight will compromise the suspension of the tow vehicle.

NB - you can also measure the height of the bumper without the trailer to see - relatively - how much tongue weight you have once the trailer is hooked. Even an empty trailer needs some nose weight.

This is MY rule of thumb.... I'm sure you will get a definative lbs answer which will be just as safe.

When all the smoke clears - remember, it is 100% the drivers responcibility to safely secure the load - restraint, visibility, within all ratings and capacities, heighths and widths etc., AND for those who haven't don a CDL, not to obscure any of your mandatory safety gear.

By the time you have followed all the advise you are getting - you too can eat and chew gum at the same time!


M1010'... I guess you type faster than I. Nice reply though.

 

[smashcrashy]

We use over sized chains and tight, lever boomers, sassy yellow keepers on the handles and cross chain if it's easier. Front facing / Back facing, consideration for things falling off in the 50mph wind is all important. Knowing how your weight is distributed and ensuring tongue weight will keep you alive.
How Not To Drive With a Trailer - TrashCars.net

Was the basic issue here the wrong trailer for the load? I dont think he could have shifted the load much further forward.

As the load moves forward on the trailer, the 'sag' on the towing vehicle begins to become apparent. Ideally you pull forward until approx. 40% of the load is on the tongue. That will visibly push the back of the truck down (approx. 1" on my duramax) and should give you about 3200 lbs of tongue weight plus the trailer tongue weight. So in the case of the 12' ferret....and aSSuming even weight of both axles, stop once the front of the Ferret is approx. 4.5 feet ahead of the front axle.

40% load is on the tongue? I thought it was 10-15% of total weight should be on the tongue? I think my hitch tongue rating is only something like 1k or 1.5k

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Awww, come on guys, my company investigates accidents and such like some of what is being discussed. Typical towing practices are good for business...........

But, the correct tongue weight is 10% of the TOTAL trailer weight, not to exceed 15% and this is very tow vehicle specific. (This is for tag along trailers not 5th wheel trailers.)
Most of the time, such as in the staged picture above, the trailer GVW is way over the rated weight for the tow vehicle. It becomes a tow vehicle stability issue, not a trailer issue. Excess hitch weight unloads the steer axle and creates instability in braking, even with good trailer brakes.
Even a 1-ton DRW, that has a GCVW of 23,000 (not with me in it...) pulling a 20k trailer is overweight.
We love to get these investigations, and yes we will drop the scales and weigh the tongue.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Estimating vehicle weight distribution

I have edited the above post with more accurate numbers and apologize for misleading information. Thus the caveat of sleep deprived post SPD, which will not happen again.

Squirt-truck, thank-you for the correction and sorry for the need for a babysitting service. Can you tell us more about the incidents and common failures?

I have all the documents at my finger tips and failed to use them. No more heat strokin' posts.

TRAILER LOADING AND TOWING GUIDE

Trailer Loading and Towing Guide

Weight calculation tables
Government of Alberta Ministry of Transportation: Regulation Summary

Smashy, just before that trailer flips, if you pause the vid, it appears that only the front wheel of the car is in front of the front axle. Visually, it appears that only 20% (guess) of the car is in front of the front axle. Besides the obvious small tow vehicle and high C/G of the trailer, distribution could have been a contributing factor in the incident.

This is why we use a 40% / 60% rule when loading unknowns. 40% of the load is visually ahead of the front axle. 60 % sits over the axles. With no method of weighing, this ensures tongue weight. (But will not be 40% of the total load on the tongue)

I have a square water tank that is 1200 gallons and 10' long. We place 4' of it in front of the axle and the rest sits over the axles. I'll post wet/dry weights next when I weigh it with the Duramax and get the real numbers up here.

More tongue is better then less tongue if you're unsure about the decision. In my case I need to stop flappin' my tongue....until the morning.

 

[smashcrashy]

m1010plowboy thanks for all the feedback you've given some great practical advice and it really helped a lot. I appreciate it.