Trailering a deuce

[rizzo]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Trailering a deuce

Lets see
12,000lb deuce, I bet the fire truck is easily 8,000lbs, the trailer 4000lbs and the tow vehicle around 7000lbs , so that 31,000lbs +/- GCWR being pulled by a one ton?? duelly WOW.

here is a link to a trailer with dual axles and a GVWR of 25,900



http://www.kaufmantrailers.com/heav...Equipment/30Ft,-25,900-lb.-Gooseneck-p25.html

I think the two trucks would be around 20k +-. that would make it legal +- for the trailer

so what is the tow rating of the truck?

 

[rizzo]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Trailering a deuce

dodge says the GCWR is 24k (for a 2008 ....3500) so if that is the max for combined vehicles it would be overweight.

I am going to call the DOT tomorrow and see what they have to say.

 

[EZFEED]

WOW! Thats allot if indeed the firetruck is hitching a ride.

I recently had a similar experience but I have to say it was uneventfull and the driver was most professional about it. Had my truck hauled back on a similar tandem axle dual wheel setup. He was carrying my truck and a fourwheeler and was pulling it with a 2008 F-350 dually.

My truck weighs 22,000lbs and I told him I wan't sure but he said it was cool and he was fully insured $100,000 so I guess it was OK

 

[Blythewoodjoe]

Unless the Dodge is rated at twice what our Fords are, this load would exceed the max gross manufacturer limit for the truck. Two things to think about, what the factory says and what it's registered for. I got a ticket with my F-350 the other day when I was stopped by a weigh station. My truck and trailer weighed 30,000 but was not registered for that much. We studied the factory ratings on Ford trucks as we selected a truck to work out of. We hauled two pieced of equipment to Mississippi after Katrina on my Dad's F-550 and that was probably over loaded but they only weighed 8,000 each.

I don't see how he would get by a weigh station. I think it's unwise but I'm a wise guy

 

[pctrans]

My TT was registered for 80,00lbs, and many times hauledpotatoes loads out of main grossing 130,000., no problem!!??

And I suppose you're going to tell us you did this hauling on 5 axles???? NO WAY!!

 

[rizzo]

I just talked to the state police. the manufacturer limits are for civil litigation.

state motor carriers are interested in what your gross weight is and if you are legally plated for it and what your axle weights are and if those are legal. The motor carrier I talked to said that those are federal laws and are used all over the company.

i do know that each axle is designed to haul and stop its weight limit. When I add more axles to a trailer i don't have to worry about braking because the axle will stop what it can haul.

 

[rizzo]

just talked to the motor carrier again. the rear axle of a dodge dually would be allowed @ 19600lbs the front @9800. if he had a trailer with 2 axles with the same size tires as the dually he can legally scale 34k on the trailer (not 20k and 20k because they are tandem axles) so add all that up and we get a 63400 gross weight he can scale. subtract the weight of a 1 ton dually and a 40ft gooseneck and we get @ 46k lbs load weight if he could load it properly.

seeing that he is going to be hauling @ 20000lbs It is not illegal if he is plated properly.

 

[EO2NMCB]

then DOT axle weights on the hot shot setup are very close to tractor trailer axel weights.

 

[reitenger]

All I want is pictures when he pulls up fully loaded. I have no opinion, but I want to see it fully loaded down.

 

[M1075]

Rizzo, thanks for investigating the issue, but I don't see any circumstance where a 1 ton pickup should be grossing 63,400#. Legal or not, scale or not.

 

[rizzo]

then DOT axle weights on the hot shot setup are very close to tractor trailer axel weights.

700 lbs per square inch. we assumed that the tire was 7 inches wide. 7x700=4900/tire x 4 tires = 19600

 

[rizzo]

Rizzo, thanks for investigating the issue, but I don't see any circumstance where a 1 ton pickup should be grossing 63,400#. Legal or not, scale or not.

I agree. There are two issues here.

1) is the load the truck is taking ( NOT 63,400 lbs gross, @35k gross) legal?

2) is the load safe?

I have investigated #1 and found it is in fact legal.If I have made any mistakes in this please point them out to me.

I think the answer on safety depends on the braking ability of the truck and the individual axle weights of each axle with the load on it.

quick calculations and assumptions ( 21k on a 9k trailer with 20% of the weight on the goose neck) show the trailer tandems at 24k and a 6k load on the 5th wheel of the pickup.

I think that 24k is no problem for the brakes on the trailer axles.

I think that 6k on the pickup brakes would be about the limit for them, but I don't know what the actual numbers are for a 1 ton dually.

 

[chicklin]

Quick update, I just talked to the trucker. He was loaded up and leaving the lot. I asked him about the weight and he said it was no problem. As this is a shipping company and not just some yay-hoo, I have to believe that he is aware and mindful of the DOT regulations and such. As pointed out above, the weight could very likely be within the legal limits. As to the question of safety, I can only go on his word that he feels comfortable with it. It would make me nervous, but I'm not in the business.

Anyway, yes, I will be getting pics of the whole load. In addition to you guys, all my buddies at work are clamoring to see the whole thing.

p.s. - He said the truck fired right up, all the gears work and everything appeared to be there. That's a relief.

 

[chicklin]

Oh, also, the firetruck is behind mine, so I will get to see it run and drive on and off the trailer, which is cool. Apparently, it's going to Utah.

 

[M1075]

Thanks for the update. Don't forget to post up with some pics or we will lynch ya!

 

[TommyG45]

Per my previous post, my set up was a little different. The trailer is alot smaller than the one here. Here are a few picks of my delivery, I was a bit surprised when I had seen the tow vechile, I was expecting a much bigger truck. I am just glad it got here ok.....

Tommy

 

[M1075]

Ouch! That trailer only has single wheels, not duals. Driver was trying to compensate for that by maximizing weight on the truck duals.

 

[chicklin]

Ouch! That trailer only has single wheels, not duals. Driver was trying to compensate for that by maximizing weight on the truck duals.

Good call, I'd say you're right. There is no other reason to balance that much weight on the truck.

 

[DanMartin]

Agreed...I would have gone Duals on the trailer and kept the pin weight to about 3K. Maybe some air bags too.

He's my ramblings:

I have a F-350 DRW like that (mine is newer, 4x4, and has the 4.30 tow gears). I'm looking at getting a goose-neck trailer similar to this for towing my big toys around. The truck is rated at 26K GCWR, and if balanced right and loaded correctly I should be able to get 4K pin weight on the truck and still be OK on weight (dry payload weight rating for the truck is 4800lbs as configured). Air bags help to even things out if it gets to saggy in the back. Note that my truck uses a Dana-80 rear with vented differential for cooling and 13.5" dual-piston disc brakes up front and 13.25" single-piston disc brakes in the rear (decent stopping power).

So, 26K, figure 9K on the truck fully loaded (Fuel, me, some tools, minus payload) that gives me 17K to play with. Assuming a 13.5K for a typical deuce, that gives me 3.5K of trailer within the GCWR. I bet I would be over by 1.5Klbs in reality if I tried this (let's assume a 5K dry weight for the trailer), but I feel that's within my wiggle-range. I would love an F-450, but can't swallow the $60+K for a new one.

Obviously defensive and careful driving is a must when driving any vehicle this close to it's payload envelope (or all the time, as I do when driving my big stuff).

 

[Blythewoodjoe]

Well here's a few things to think about.

First off I don't know what kind of tires dude has on his rig. He might have some high dollar 40 ply space shuttle tires. But the one's on my 9 ton trailer I drive every day are rated at 2800 each. The tires on my 2008 F-350 are rated at 2900 pounds each. That means if I have more than 5800 pounds on the front end, the tires are over loaded. That also means if I haul more than 35,000 pounds total my tires are over loaded. That also means the load has to be perfectly ballanced for this to work too. I don't know what the dudes trailer weighs but my truck and trailer with my 8500 pound excavator and maybe 2000 pounds of material was 28,000. He's still putting a deuce on there above that. It's worth noting my trailer is pretty heavy.

Also the trailer link posted at the top of this page is not rated at a true 25,900 pounds. If you look at the link that is with 5900 pounds on the truck. That's the main reason I preffer my goose neck trailer. Lots of weight where it needs to be, on the truck AXLE.

Here's a picture of the set up I delieved a deuce with a few weeks back. Any more weight and I would have been worried.