Trans Oil Overview 3053A

[bassetdeuce]

I just hope NAPA doesn't stop offering their GL1 90wt. A pail (or two) of that stuff is just what the doctor ordered for cheapos like me.

 

[stumps]

There are two SAE oil ranges: one for SAE motor oil, and one for SAE gear oil. The ranges from SAE 0 through SAE 50 are motor oils, and the ranges from SAE 75 through SAE 250 are gear oils.

The viscosity, or thickness, of the oils in the two ranges are comparable... with SAE 75 gear oil being about the same viscosity as SAE 10 motor oil, and SAE 90 gear oil being about the same viscosity as SAE 50 motor oil.

Because the additive packages in motor oils are better suited to engines, and the additive packages in gear oils are better suited to transmissions, etc. , and because Spicer once recommended using SAE 50 motor oil in their manual transmissions, some of the oil companies sell a yellow metal safe SAE 90 gear oil labeled as SAE 50 transmission oil.

The whole problem with gear oils in transmissions come from the Extreme Pressure (EP) additives put in many gear oils to extend the life of the Hypoid cut gears in differentials. A principle component of many EP packages is sulfur... which has a lot to do with why Hypoid gear oil smells so bad.. The sulfur additives, when combined with moisture form acids that can etch, or dissolve, the brass/bronze metals and make some transmissions fail. The brass or bronze parts are generally bearing inserts, or parts of the clutches in the synchromesh system. The usual result of using a non yellow metal safe oil in your transmission is for the synchronizers to quit, making the transmission hard to shift without double clutching.

Another favorite EP additive is molybdenum disulfide, also known as moly. Moly is an extremely slippery stuff, and it can make the synchronizer clutches slip so easily that the gears won't spin up enough to synchronize... again your transmission stops shifting easily.

When GL1 oils came out, EP additives did not exist. GL4 oils have EP additives, but they are usually yellow metal safe. Some GL5's are yellow metal safe, and some aren't. The US Government changed the oil recommendations for the deuce to a GL5 that is yellow metal safe. This allows them to use a single oil for the differentials, transfer cases, and transmissions.

-Chuck

 

[Coal Cracker]

There are two SAE oil ranges: one for SAE motor oil, and one for SAE gear oil. The ranges from SAE 0 through SAE 50 are motor oils, and the ranges from SAE 75 through SAE 250 are gear oils.

The viscosity, or thickness, of the oils in the two ranges are comparable... with SAE 75 gear oil being about the same viscosity as SAE 10 motor oil, and SAE 90 gear oil being about the same viscosity as SAE 50 motor oil.

Because the additive packages in motor oils are better suited to engines, and the additive packages in gear oils are better suited to transmissions, etc. , and because Spicer once recommended using SAE 50 motor oil in their manual transmissions, some of the oil companies sell a yellow metal safe SAE 90 gear oil labeled as SAE 50 transmission oil.

The whole problem with gear oils in transmissions come from the Extreme Pressure (EP) additives put in many gear oils to extend the life of the Hypoid cut gears in differentials. A principle component of many EP packages is sulfur... which has a lot to do with why Hypoid gear oil smells so bad.. The sulfur additives, when combined with moisture form acids that can etch, or dissolve, the brass/bronze metals and make some transmissions fail. The brass or bronze parts are generally bearing inserts, or parts of the clutches in the synchromesh system. The usual result of using a non yellow metal safe oil in your transmission is for the synchronizers to quit, making the transmission hard to shift without double clutching.

Another favorite EP additive is molybdenum disulfide, also known as moly. Moly is an extremely slippery stuff, and it can make the synchronizer clutches slip so easily that the gears won't spin up enough to synchronize... again your transmission stops shifting easily.

When GL1 oils came out, EP additives did not exist. GL4 oils have EP additives, but they are usually yellow metal safe. Some GL5's are yellow metal safe, and some aren't. The US Government changed the oil recommendations for the deuce to a GL5 that is yellow metal safe. This allows them to use a single oil for the differentials, transfer cases, and transmissions.

-Chuck

Ok I did a thank to this post, but now I'm still kicking this around, The superS syn that I used is stated as a 50 wt. gear oil. Am I to assume that it is in actuality a 90 wt. gear oil, or 50 wt. since it is stated as a gear oil, and not a motor oil?

 

[m-35tom]

i have been using 40wt motor oil for years. first reason was that i ran the truck at 70 mph and the oil in the transfer would foam at that speed. second is much easier shifting. the custom 3053 trans i use now has 2 sets of needle brngs, one for 2nd gear so it won't seize and one for 5th, so the lighter oil is required for good lubrication in close tolerances.

tom

 

[pittdog]

80-90 W Nuttin else !

 

[Coal Cracker]

i have been using 40wt motor oil for years. first reason was that i ran the truck at 70 mph and the oil in the transfer would foam at that speed. second is much easier shifting. the custom 3053 trans i use now has 2 sets of needle brngs, one for 2nd gear so it won't seize and one for 5th, so the lighter oil is required for good lubrication in close tolerances.

tom

I see you've done the waterloo conversion, I came across his site while on my quest, .

 

[stumps]

Ok I did a thank to this post, but now I'm still kicking this around, The superS syn that I used is stated as a 50 wt. gear oil. Am I to assume that it is in actuality a 90 wt. gear oil, or 50 wt. since it is stated as a gear oil, and not a motor oil?

If the SAE gear oil numbers were extended down from their minimum of SAE 75 to SAE 50, the viscosity of the resulting oil would be about the same as SAE 5 engine oil.... in other words, real thin stuff... I bet it isn't.

The so called SAE 50 gear oil is just relabeled SAE 90 gear oil.

-Chuck

 

[jwaller]

Has there been any reports of leaks with the synthetic? It's some slippery stuff and can squeak by seals better than GL-1.

I don't think the syntech is a full synthetic, thats why it's so cheap. only $9/qt not $15. it has not caused any new leaks and has worked great for me. it made shifting in the winter much easier.

I've put prob 6k miles on the stuff so far and the case was cooler after switching.

 

[OPCOM]

Trans oil for the 2.5T and 5T is certainly a popular topic. I'm no epxert at all but I've put >17,000 miles on an M35 and run GL-1 at first. What I noticed is that when it gets hot it turns very thin. Smooth shifting when cold became more difficult shifing when hot. Then I went to GL-5 with the MT-1 designation. This improved things greatly and the transmission still remained smooth except when very hot, such as after 5-6 hours at 50-55MPH. I never went to synthetic and I am glad to see one described here.

But I also believe the reports of 2nd gear seizing and some research here will show that its oiling holes are pretty crappy and I think there are but two. m-35tom did a good topic on this including having a special gear made. This would tell me that a thinner oil might be better to get in there and have more of it flow through that trouble spot. Therefore even the old GL-1 would be a good oil for the transmission in regular use. The "hard to shift" item I am citing here is where the lever is easy enough to move generally, but the trans does not quickly go that last inch or so into gear. Maybe a worn synchro? Maybe not. Maybe it is normal for those big old transmissions, they were designed to be shifted patiently, not hard and fast.

 

[Flyingvan911]

OPCOM, how many miles have you put on your deuce with GL-5? I have some GL-5 but after reading more I am thinking about 50 wt oil. It can get down to single digit temps here in Kansas City. It seems like most people have good luck with GL-5, GL-1, and 50wt.

 

[jatonka]

Back in the old days when I ran trucks with Spicer 5 speeds, the shops all told me to use 50 Wt motor oil in them cause 90 Wt. gear oil was too heavy. Just a thought. JT out

 

[tiger422]

All the new big trucks that I have seen with manual trans use 50W motor oil.

 

[ctmustang]

I just bought another pail of gl-1 from napa. Their part # is 700-44! All I ever used and never a problem in any of my trucks.
CT

 

[stumps]

Back in the old days when I ran trucks with Spicer 5 speeds, the shops all told me to use 50 Wt motor oil in them cause 90 Wt. gear oil was too heavy. Just a thought. JT out

SAE 50 motor oil is the right thing to use, but not because SAE 90 Gear oil is too heavy. There are two overlapping SAE scales: SAE Motor oil, and SAE Gear oil. SAE90 is about the same viscosity as SAE 50 Motor oil (Viscosity (100F/210F): SAE50 = 270/19.5 cST, SAE90 = 285/20.5 cST). (SAE85W90 Gear oil, as specified by the US, is actually thinner than SAE 50 Motor oil.)

The reason to use SAE50 motor oil, instead of SAE90 GL5 hypoid gear oil, is the transmission doesn't need the EHP additives that a hypoid, or worm gear differential needs. If you use a straight mineral oil (GL1) SAE90 Gear oil, or an SAE50 Motor oil, the transmission will be extremely happy. Also, not all gear oils are yellow metal safe. Those that are heavy in the sulfur based friction modifiers (stink like fire and brimstone...), tend to eat the synchronizers in Spicer 5spd's.

-Chuck

 

[Srjeeper]

After reading this thru, I've come to the same conclusion. We sometimes over think things and cause ourselves our own problems.

If you put racing oil in a Pinto engine, does it become a racing Pinto engine? I think not!

Same goes for our deuce engines, trans, transfer cases and rears. They are what they are. 40+- year old pieces of equipment that require certain types of oils & solvents to work properly. So to put newer advanced formula oils in any of them, really has little or no major effect because they are what they are. The oil used does not improve the design.

So save your money for other things and use what's called for and enjoy your trucks.

"Don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you!!"

 

[jatonka]

Hi Stumps, thanks for the explanation on why the 50 wt. motor oil. If I listen, I can still learn, just amazing. JT out

 

[DavidWymore]

After reading all the posts and Tm's on Deuce trans oil, I was so confused, and had not really come to any one conclusion on what to use. I did however decide that GL-1 is ancient at best, and there had to be something better.

I've searched the net, and found a couple JP magazine tech articles that state the 3053 uses 80/90, never mentioning a thing about yellow metals, or synchros safe. I embarked on my week long mission, to find the RIGHT oil.

I started calling every drive train supply house that I've dealt with in the past, and most have forwarded me to the 50 WT. synthetic used in otr trucks, now I was confused of course because there are posts saying use 50 Wt. engine oil, alas we're those posts wrong? because I have not been able to find 50 wt. engine oil.

I have a good friend that works for my local NAPA, this isn't you're rinky dink NAPA, they have small engine supplies to heavy truck supplies, and they've allways gotten me out of weird part jams, He let me spend a few hours looking over their lube spec books, and eyeing up their inventory, all of my looking and calling boiled down to what I am confident in saying is the correct replacement for GL-1.

I have to say that the earlier posts stating the use of 50 Wt. Synthetic trans oil
in the 3053 spicer would be correct, of course don't take my word for it, a pic is worth a thousand words.


I have changed both trans and T-case with this oil, and have noted much better shifting, and no leaks or seepage other than normal. Good Luck

So did the syn not work out?

 

[f3504x4]

After reading this thru, I've come to the same conclusion. We sometimes over think things and cause ourselves our own problems.

If you put racing oil in a Pinto engine, does it become a racing Pinto engine? I think not!

Same goes for our deuce engines, trans, transfer cases and rears. They are what they are. 40+- year old pieces of equipment that require certain types of oils & solvents to work properly. So to put newer advanced formula oils in any of them, really has little or no major effect because they are what they are. The oil used does not improve the design.

So save your money for other things and use what's called for and enjoy your trucks.

"Don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you!!"

Okay... i am thick as a brick! After reading all the info about the different oils for the 3053a. What is called for in the 3053a transmission?
Thank you in advance
Ron

 

[Elijah95]

Okay... i am thick as a brick! After reading all the info about the different oils for the 3053a. What is called for in the 3053a transmission?
Thank you in advance
Ron

Simply GL1 gear oil specifically or straight 50 weight motor oil will both be wonderful


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[f3504x4]

Simply GL1 gear oil specifically or straight 50 weight motor oil will both be wonderful


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Thank you , non detergent as well?