Truck Starts Crappy after replacing Flame heater

[peashooter]

I replaced the flame heater last week and ever since the truck takes much longer to start that before the "fix".
It did sit for 2 days with the return fuel line open and not attached. I expected it to take a while to start on the first start after hooking it all back up.
Prior to the replacement it would start right up in no more than 1 second of pushing the starter... even after sitting all winter. Now evertime I try to start it I need to step on the accellerator and hold the starter for around 10 seconds.
Havent driven it yet, just let it idle for about 20 minute spurts here and there between other repairs not related to fuel.

WHAT COULD BE THE PROBLEM?

 

[coyotegray]

You probably have air in the lines somewhere and will need to bleed them..

 

[wsucougarx]

Definately probably have air in the lines.

 

[peashooter]

thanks guys, this diesel stuff is still new to me. Now I at least know what to search for to fix the problem.

 

[tie6044]

Once the truck is running doesn't it bleed all the air out on its own?

 

[Troll1216]

I am new to the Deuce, but learning much every time I work on it.

I have done a fuel line and a full fuel system cleaning including filters and tank. Each time I drained the system to work on it I later had to purge the system. This is covered in the TMs, but... the easy way is as follows:

1. Locate the fuel purge valve located on the top of the secondary/final fuel filters on the aft portion of the driver side of the motor. Some have two, some have one purge valve on top ofthe filters (NOT THE BOTTOM) - it is a small regular screw driver bleeder valve.

2. Get fire extinguisher (just in case)

3. Switch on the in tank pump by throwing the on switch only (Don't start it)

4. Open the Bleeder valve you located in step 1

5. Allow air to escape and diesel to run everywhere - Just kidding - but allow it to run until it stops sputtering diesel/air and it is just diesel

5. screw bleeder valve back in.

6. Attempt to start motor - no more than 2-4 second attempt then allow a cool off time fo a minute or 2

7. When motor starts see if it idles rough. If it runs rough repeat steps 4 and 5 (if you have a friend you can do this with the motor running.

8. If it idles rough but starts you can try giving it more go juce. If it runs as it did normally allow it to run with your foot on the go petal or the hand throtle out a bit for a few minutes.

9. It should be good to go now.

It does "self purge" to some extent, but this is the quicker way.

 

[doghead]

Did you replace the plastic fuel lines, or reuse them?

Did your plastic fuel line have brass inserts(to keep it from collapsing)?

You can tighten the old line with no inserts all you want, but not stop them from leaking. The worse thing you can do is over-tighten old lines.

You probably have an air leak now.

 

[Floridianson]

Once the truck is running doesn't it bleed all the air out on its own?

As Trolll said for the most part. Do believe if you look at the overflow for the HH it goes to a T fitting on the secondary filter and the return line to the tank. It could be possible for some air to enter back to the finial or bleed screw. If one though that there was a lot of air you can double check the bleed after running awhile. Now thats saying there is no outher place we might have air leak.

 

[lawdog1623]

you probably have air in the lines somewhere and will need to bleed them..

this without a doubt! My truck did the exact same thing after replacing a leaky flame heater

 

[peashooter]

Did you replace the plastic fuel lines, or reuse them?

Did your plastic fuel line have brass inserts(to keep it from collapsing)?

You can tighten the old line with no inserts all you want, but not stop them from leaking. The worse thing you can do is over-tighten old lines.

You probably have an air leak now.

I reused the plastic fuel line, but replaced the fitting. I put a 1/4" compression to 1/4NPT elbow on to work with the new style flame heater. Probably a dumb question but is a compression fitting a compression fitting or are there special ones for fuel? I just got one from a home improvement style store in the plumbing section. It did have the brass insert that gets slipped into the end of the tube to keep it from collapsing.
Also looking at the plastic return line, it looks as if its flat in one spot now,... sort of like it collapsed from vacuum or something. I'll probably replace it now before bleeding everything but is there any way it can collapse on itself... can a return line end up pulling a vacuum in some instance? I dont remember it looking like that right after I hooked it all back up.

thanks for the help guys.

 

[3dAngus]

You can twist that plastic fuel line when tightening it. You need to turn both ends at the same time, so you don't turn just one end when tightening, let the compression fitting bite, then put a twist in the whole line as it is tightened. Once you get a twist in it, it can, and often will collapse. It happened to me and I had to pull out the compression fitting, replace it and the line, and redo, while turning both ends at the same time when tightening to keep it straight. But you still have air in your lines. It's an easy fix to bleed at the injectors, and secondary fuel filter should be checked and tested too, in accordance with the tech manual.
It's not difficult. Take about 30 minutes to purge it all out, once you read the tech manual and get smart on it. Good night time reading.

 

[Floridianson]

You could also try and leave the intank pump running for a min. then try and start. Running the intank a while will not hurt it but clears the HH.

 

[3dAngus]

You could also try and leave the intank pump running for a min. then try and start. Running the intank a while will not hurt it but clears the HH.

I was wondering if you could elaborate on this one further.
Reason:
I went to look at a M35A2 w/w that I am considering buying. Everything looked fine but brake leaks around two wheels, but he said he completely went through the brakes and flushed them all out as well, then put in new DOT5.

One thing bothered me. He said the deuce ran perfect. But he turned on the battery, and walked me away from the deuce, over to the other side, and we talked some, buzzer going, then came back after about two minutes, and it started right up. I knew that on some hard to start deuces you could let it "pump up" for a minute, but don't fully understand the issues.

So, I'm asking for clarification please. What is the "HH" and what is the issue with fuel not getting to it, or through it. How difficult is it to repair where the fuel system flow is "normal" if this is the problem? Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom. And if anyone else knows, please feel free to respond or chip in with their experiences.

 

[Floridianson]

No problem little buddy. Guess we should not use HH but Hydrolic Head or the distrubuter for the fuel. When air gets into the system one way or another the Head don't like it. Now we just try and find out why fuel is leaking back to the tank and leaving the line with air or we have something wrong in the system. By running the intank awhile she clears herself because it is just a circle system and we got go power. Got it?.

 

[3dAngus]

Yep. And I'll research it further to see the distribution of the lines. So I'm guessing the HH is different from the IP, and somewhere between the in tank fuel pump and the HH, air might be getting in, and when that happens, we need to build up the pressure to displace the air with fuel over time. In the meantime, we have some troubleshooting to do to find where that air might be getting in. Thanks. Hope I got that right.

 

[Floridianson]

The HH sits on top of the IP and has the steel fuel injector lines on it. The rest if the IP is the internals for advance and Gov. plus fuel pump to bring the fuel pressure up to 70lb when at higher rpm.

 

[DieselBob]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]And for your reading edification you might want to checkout TM 9-2910-226-34, PUMP, FUEL, METERING AND DISTRIBUTING. Gives a good explanation of the operation of the HH and related IP parts.
[/FONT]

 

[peashooter]

I couldnt figure out where the heck the fuel line leak was after replacing the valve and it turns out it was the new valve!
Turns out the new style flame heater nozzle from memphis was leaking though. They sent me a new "original" style design one that works well.

 

[Flyingvan911]

I bought a new style from Memphic and had the same trouble. I got a gallon of diesel in my crankcase. I plan to rebuild the old one sometime and hook it back up.