U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proceed in auction??

[rchalmers3]

Hello everyone, I am so glad to find this forum and post some newbe questions!

I am a US citizen living in Costa Rica. I am interested in bringing down a M35A2 for the purpose of giving jungle tours! As I am just beginning my edumacation of the auction and purchase process, I have a few questions that are specific to my newbe/expat status. ***NOTE: Forum host, please move this thread to the appropriate section if needed and accept my apologies***.

For example:

1) Will my living abroad (no US addy, only a Post office box mailing address for the past 3 years) disallow my obtaining an EUC, participating in an auction or obtaining a SF-97? I still pay taxes in the US, but I have been physically absent for 3 years. (my wife says I was never really there)

2) If so, are there legal alternatives to the above? (registered legal buyers for hire, for example) I realize I can buy a truck already registered by a private party in their state, but I am enticed by possible adventure and seduced by a slim chance of savings.

3) Are there export restrictions for a M35A2 (some resellers won't sell to me and I'm wondering why)

4) I read through some huge, gawdawfull government document explaining what is and isn't restricted for export.I forget the name of the document at the moment. It was supplied by a nice lady from GL who refused to interpret it for me!!! It is currently lost, due to my computer reformatting 'cause of a nasty porno virus. (the computer, not me) What I gathered from my attempt at gleaning fact from this tome is that if the vehicle was ever fitted with weapons, it's a no-go for export. If the truck was used for transport, it's a go. Is this accurate or am I being optimistic?

5) Is it possible to ship a truck to Costa Rica using the issued SF-97 form, once it is in my hands?

6) I'm not a dealer, only a hobbiest. Will I pay taxes on a truck that is sure to be bought in a western state and driven into Mexico and points south?
7) Lastly, I LOVE the idea of CTIS and super singles. My wish and dream would be to "find" a M35A3 at an affordable (to me) price. My last question is weather the CTIS technology or anything else on the M35A3 limits export for a little Middle America jungle exploration?


Thanks to all. If you are ever coming down this way, Please look me up. I have imported and sold Unimogs that are being used by various companies for development and tourism. US military trucks will also serve the purpose for fun and adventure and I look forward to your friendship and replies! I'll leave some contact info for you to reach me if you like.

Rick Chalmers, president,
Adventure Motors: "Bigger Than Yours!" S.A.
www.advmo.com
advenmotor@yahoo.com

 

[No.2Diesel]

You could haul a Sh-load of bannanas in a Deuce.

CTIS is'nt reliable and the parts are expensive.

Buying from GL directly could be difficult as your primary residence is outside the U.S.

There are plenty of dealers that export Deuces & 5tons regularly (Clark, Memphis) but at a price $$$.

I'm sure Robyn from GL will be able to help you out here soon.

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I'd love to see more pics of Unimogs in action in Costa Rica!

 

[rchalmers3]

Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proceed in auctio

CTIS is'nt reliable and the parts are expensive. Really? I thought it would be the cats a$$. Please send me a link to where I can bone up on the system and it's faults/remedies, por favor!
Buying from GL directly could be difficult as your primary residence is outside the U.S. Say more about this please. Why exactly would it be difficult?

There are plenty of dealers that export Deuces & 5tons regularly (Clark, Memphis) but at a price $$$. Yes, I have witnessed the mark up. I'm sure they do something to add value, I just haven't found it yet!

I'm sure Robyn from GL will be able to help you out here soon. That will be appreciated. Thanks for your input.

Rick

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I'd love to see more pics of Unimogs in action in Costa Rica!

ME TOO!!!

 

[SCSG-G4]

RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proceed in au

Direct from GL is a big no-no because of the EUC and export controls that are imposed on them by DRMO. They cannot knowingly sell to someone who does not have permission from the state department, the defense department, and some other agency, - in advance!!! Far easier and cheaper to buy a deuce in Europe and ship it than to go through the contortions of the permissions. It's also a felony for anyone that might help you try to slip around the restrictions.
Dealers that will do the export generally go over the vehicles and fix up anything that might be wrong or not up to snuff before the sale. They have employees that like being paid on a regular basis, somewhat NOT like the folks here, who do it because we love to. Bottom line is that you will probably wind up spending the same total amount either way - all at one time, or in drips and drabs. Pick your poison!

 

[Recovry4x4]

RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proceed in au

Try GSA

 

[rchalmers3]

Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proceed i

Direct from GL is a big no-no because of the EUC and export controls that are imposed on them by DRMO. They cannot knowingly sell to someone who does not have permission from the state department, the defense department, and some other agency, - in advance!!! Far easier and cheaper to buy a deuce in Europe and ship it than to go through the contortions of the permissions. It's also a felony for anyone that might help you try to slip around the restrictions.
Dealers that will do the export generally go over the vehicles and fix up anything that might be wrong or not up to snuff before the sale. They have employees that like being paid on a regular basis, somewhat NOT like the folks here, who do it because we love to. Bottom line is that you will probably wind up spending the same total amount either way - all at one time, or in drips and drabs. Pick your poison!

SCSG G-4,
Boy, you're not kidding it's poison!!! I have spent the past few hours researching what it takes to export a military truck, according to The Export Administration Regulations issued by the Bureau Industry and Security. It turns out I can file for an application to export a truck, but I have to be in the US.

Man, what a mess. But I'm beginning to see that I need to get clarification on whether I'm an "exporter" or just an average Joe chasing the dream of owning an ex-military vehicle.

My current thinking is that I am not an exporter, so I could: Purchase a titled truck and change title to my name. When I have the title in hand, I'll drive it down here.

More research.....

Rick

 

[rchalmers3]

Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proceed i

Try GSA

Kenny,

Who is GSA and what is their authority? As I mentioned to SCSG G4, I have found that the BIS claims to have jurisdiction and accountability over exports. I'd like to say their regulations in the EAR were a pleasant read, however......

Any links or contact info you can provide me on the GSA will keep me in action, so please post up!

Hey, why doesn't this forum have a for sale/trading section? I'll bet there's a few members on this forum selling their rigs as I type this!

Rick

 

[bonshawman]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proce

Curious question:
If I, a US resident and owner of a number of former MV's, decided to relocate to another county and take my MV's with me, I wonder how THAT would influence this issue ? What is the difference between importing my Prius, or my 3500 Dodge, or my bobbed M35A2 ? I am sure I might have a challenge with the armored Ferret.....

SO, US citizen relocating WITH the MV's, or non-US citizen wishing to import MV's - same result, but different issues ??

 

[Recovry4x4]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to proce

GSA is www.gsaauctions.gov Basically its the civilian side of government sales. They frequently sell military surplus that was loaned out to the forestry division etc. Their trucks are usually beat a little harder and have civilian paint and mods but require no EUC and come with an SF97. Since there are no sales restrictions, I think they would be easier to take with you. Costa Rica sounds like a place I may want to retire to.

 

[rchalmers3]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to p

Curious question:
If I, a US resident and owner of a number of former MV's, decided to relocate to another county and take my MV's with me, I wonder how THAT would influence this issue ? What is the difference between importing my Prius, or my 3500 Dodge, or my bobbed M35A2 ? I am sure I might have a challenge with the armored Ferret.....

SO, US citizen relocating WITH the MV's, or non-US citizen wishing to import MV's - same result, but different issues ??

bonshawman,

You are in EXACTLY the same place of inquiry as I am. A relocation of personal property is different from exporting. At least it is to me at this moment! I'll continue to dig up more on this.....

Who has jurisdiction over relocating personal property out of country and where are the regulations for what can and cannot leave???

Rick

 

[rchalmers3]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How to p

GSA is www.gsaauctions.gov Basically its the civilian side of government sales. They frequently sell military surplus that was loaned out to the forestry division etc. Their trucks are usually beat a little harder and have civilian paint and mods but require no EUC and come with an SF97. Since there are no sales restrictions, I think they would be easier to take with you. Costa Rica sounds like a place I may want to retire to.

Recovry4x4,

Good tip, thanks! I thought you were indicating the GSA has some authority about exports. I now understand your reasoning. Your suggestion to pick up a non-Fed controlled piece of equipment is a great idea!

The question of the morning is whether a personally titled and registered M35A2 can leave the country???

I know they have in the past: there's a few old rotting out trucks here in my area. So I am inclined to think it's not a problem, but maybe it's just my hope talking!

Send me a PM if you are really interested in retiring here. I'll be happy to share my experience.

Rick

 

[bonshawman]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How

Perhaps there is a difference if one already owns the MV (has title, etc.), especially if they have owned it for awhile and can so document, VS attempting to purchase a vehicle outside of a country and then have it imported in ? Maybe there is no difference, or only a minor difference ?
Also, maybe the way the vehicle is documented, such as if my Florida title states "AM GEN" and "truck" and "13,000#" - there is no mention of "military" anywhere (except perhaps on a data plate affixed to the truck).

For example, my Ferret is titled in Florida as a "Daimler", because that is who made it. Daimler also makes cars in the UK. What clerk is going to know the difference ? Now an inspector or customs would certainly SEE the difference, but.....

I assume all vehicles not purchased "in country" would have some sort of import duty and/or tax, perhaps only not if the country to which they are going was their country-of-origin/manufacture ?

 

[devilman96]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad: How

The question of the morning is whether a personally titled and registered M35A2 can leave the country???

No military vehicle (GSA, GL, private owned, etc, etc, etc) OR PART can be sold or exported out of the US without going through a licensed exporter... All MV's and all MV parts are listed on munitions lists as an "article of war". To do so would be a violation of several federal laws, several trade laws, and several international laws, as well as several treaties and accords both inside and outside of the US.

 

[hndrsonj]

So my question would be, what about an older truck that was released decades ago? It never had restrictions when it was released? I am guessing with the newer rules it just classified all M44 series trucks together now they all are covered with the new rules (restrictions).

 

[devilman96]

Every year, every make, every model including the parts... They dont take age into consideration.

 

[dam88]

You mean my 1918 Mack 4x4 can't go to Costa Rico?

 

[rchalmers3]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abroad:

The question of the morning is whether a personally titled and registered M35A2 can leave the country???

No military vehicle (GSA, GL, private owned, etc, etc, etc) OR PART can be sold or exported out of the US without going through a licensed exporter... All MV's and all MV parts are listed on munitions lists as an "article of war". To do so would be a violation of several federal laws, several trade laws, and several international laws, as well as several treaties and accords both inside and outside of the US.

devilman 96,

I read the Export Administrations Database Interpretations (part 770.2 (H)) and understand that transport trucks for military use require a permit for export. So I would need a BIS export license for export. Period.

However, that is not my situation.

My current question is: If I drive my own personal vehicle (registered and titled in my name in my state) across the border into Mexico, is that considered to be "exporting"?

I believe the answer to my question is no. Driving across the border does not show intent to export. As a result I am looking for any other restrictions other than the export restrictions that may apply. I'm just not sure where to look to confirm my thought. If you have any ideas where to look, please pass them on!

Thanks all,

Rick

 

[devilman96]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abro

I don’t know why this topic seems to be so difficult for people to grasp but every time it comes up it seems that way.
Unbelievable or not, you cannot take a SPARK PLUG (let alone a MV) with a NSN on it and legally cross the border with it in your pocket... Can you do it and not get caught? Yeah... you can… Might as well toss a gun into the glove box just in case and tell them you’re not exporting that ether. Maybe it will distract them from the MV issues as the arms charges will be much easier to handle. With all of the F16 and F16 stuff in the past few years they look to make examples of these types of things… why give them the excuse? I think the hobby and surplus markets are in peril enough without belligerently testing the waters.
It’s one thing to read a department’s rules and regulations regarding the export of an item… It’s another to understand that these things are governed by more than the US such as international law and signed accords between the US and many other countries… Not to mention… If the Mexican guards caught it, “Im an American” is going to be replied to with “and I’m a Mexican, thanks for the truck, were seizing it, now walk home”…
I am a contractor… I am licensed for this… I do it for a living… If someone asks the question I’m going to give them the most truthful answer I know based on what I know… Not on what I feel or believe based on my opinion.

 

[bonshawman]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living abro

devilman96 - in the case of my 2005 LLSV (avatar), it was never in government hands - I carry a copy of the MCO, bought it new (w/warrenty) from GM dealer. As you are experienced (and I'm right down the road, by the way, in North Miami), I use this to tow my 26' Airstream and plan to travel to Mexico and Canada at some point. Based upon what you know, do you feel this would be an issue ? So it is NOT a "former Military vehicle" - I am not trying split hairs or cause problems, it is a bit of a unique situation (with the original Cert of Origin)....
Thanks and regards
Steve

 

[rchalmers3]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: U.S. Citizen living

I don’t know why this topic seems to be so difficult for people to grasp but every time it comes up it seems that way.
Unbelievable or not, you cannot take a SPARK PLUG (let alone a MV) with a NSN on it and legally cross the border with it in your pocket... Can you do it and not get caught? Yeah... you can… Might as well toss a gun into the glove box just in case and tell them you’re not exporting that ether. Maybe it will distract them from the MV issues as the arms charges will be much easier to handle. With all of the F16 and F16 stuff in the past few years they look to make examples of these types of things… why give them the excuse? I think the hobby and surplus markets are in peril enough without belligerently testing the waters.
It’s one thing to read a department’s rules and regulations regarding the export of an item… It’s another to understand that these things are governed by more than the US such as international law and signed accords between the US and many other countries… Not to mention… If the Mexican guards caught it, “Im an American” is going to be replied to with “and I’m a Mexican, thanks for the truck, were seizing it, now walk home”…
I am a contractor… I am licensed for this… I do it for a living… If someone asks the question I’m going to give them the most truthful answer I know based on what I know… Not on what I feel or believe based on my opinion.

devilman96,

Thank you for your reply. I can appreciate your comment that occasionally guys like me show up on a (your) forum where you spend some of your time! To respond to your speculation about presistance, I can answer you that the reason that I persist is that my questions have not been answered completely.

My question about bringing a MV down here for my personal was never "IF" I could do it, it has been "HOW" can I do it. It's gonna happen, but the way is not yet clear.

If I was an exporter with license as you are, I could expect my replies to this query would be the same as yours. Export is your lively hood and you are expected to know, and have agreed to abide by the rules for which you are licensed. Your response is consistent with other exporters that I have spoken with, as you have all chosen to be contracted with the Gov through licensing.

I have made no such "contract" with the Gov. I do appreciate the intent of the rules and regulations. They are there to enforce the migration of technologies and industries that protect our national security. I have no disagreement with the INTENT of the law.

The area where I am studying is where the intent (and enforcement) of the Gov regulations as applied to a citizen vs. an exporter, or if the title and registration somehow reclassify the truck, thereby removing any restrictions for export. For you it's very clear the rules apply to everyone, all the time. My research has not eliminated every option, so for the moment I taking your "facts" as opinion.

As some of the above posters have said, "does the law really apply to my 19XX so-and so?". These posters are displaying the same incredulous response I share that old iron is a restricted technology or industry worthy of restriction enforcement. Given the apparent divide between peoples perceptions and the law, I expect this issue won't end with this thread!

Question for clarification regarding your post:

You are stating that a MV is a MV, subject to export restriction REGARDLESS of which branch of the Gov used or sold it, and regardless of making it "civilian" through personal titling, registration, licensing or ownership? Y/N

Best regards,

Rick