UK APC's/Tanks (FV432/CVRT) in States

[zebedee]

Just got back from visit to UK (visit family friends etc.) and I plan on importing a CVRT &/or FV432 (433, 434) series tracked vehicle - play with for a while then sell.

Have contacts, transport, storage etc., all lined up in UK with old friends - NOT dealers.

I am wondering how much interest there is in the States - by people not willing to get involved with the 'out side the US' part of the process.

There are also some nice pseudo Panzer conversions on FV432 hull/chassis which really look the part. Havent found the source of these yet.

PM me if you are serious......
I don't want to start a general 'I'd love a Tank but my wife won't let me' conversation. THERE ARE PLENTY OF THREADS FOR THIS.

 

[Augdog1964]

You had better be careful importing vehicles, if the intention is to sell them...

Importing without being a registered importer through the government, can get you into some hot water.

Every Form 6 approved for personal import, is specifically stamped NOT FOR RESALE. Importing with the intention of selling the vehicles, even ultimately, especially since you've now documented it, could really be an issue.

If you truly want to make a business, go ahead and get the license.

My .02.

 

[zebedee]

Dave - yes, we have "talked" before. Don't want to 'become' and importer, with all that that entails, but just have the contacts and UK funds etc. I know that there is a demand in the US, also a fear/advcersity to get involved with anything that is 'out side' the lower 48. Been into Land Rovers for years - yet again, big demand but big worries about 'foreign' things.

I don't neceessarily have to be the owner - if it will help someone get their dream who doesn't want the hastle...

Still doing my own research on state side regs....

 

[B3.3T]

Dave is correct on all counts. Your statements are contradictory however. First, you state you are going to import, then sell. Then you say not. I'm confused.

 

[zebedee]

I guess it's a case of terminology... If you own a tank in the states and you do not have a sellers licence then it will have no value and you will have to be burried with it. If not, then as for other stuff, you will or it will be sold at some point. To my mind, that is not being a dealer. ... (why the heck can't there be something similar to a EUC for this stuff?)

I thought about getting an APC - particularly Samson or 434, play with it for a period, then if someone makes me an "offer that I can't refuse", naturally it will go. But I do not want to set up a business of importing tanks - that is definately not the plan. Nor do I want to start a 'Ride a Tank' operation etc.

Perhaps I should rewrite my OP.....

"Have connections etc., would be able to help/assist someone here in the States who wants one, with no legal ownership in my name." How does that sound?

 

[Heath_h49008]

Sounds like you need a good lawyer to handle your defense.

You might have been ok before you wrote this thread. But the 'net is pretty much forever and you have just laid out a plan to import and resell without proper license.



Edit: I understand what you are thinking, if you mean to assist people in finding reliable friends to help import without the cost and insanity of "Dealers" to help those who want to enter the hobby. The problem is the wording of that first post.

 

[zebedee]

Sounds like you need a good lawyer to handle your defense.

You might have been ok before you wrote this thread. But the 'net is pretty much forever and you have just laid out a plan to import and resell without proper license.

Well there is a thing called 'intent to circumvent the law' and I believe I have not, as yet, crossed that line - don't intend to either. Perhaps I am trying to find out how it can be done legally - you know, as in threads where the answer is "read the TM" ... but there isn't one!

Again - My offer is to help someone - maybe, ..... ALL above board, all legal, not a business, not a dealer.

But thanks for all the paronoia and pushing me "over the line"!!! : )

 

[patracy]

Should this thread go away?

I'd love to have a tracked vehicle. But my funding is no where near where it should be for that. (Notice I didn't say my wife wouldn't let me!)

 

[zebedee]

Not sure Phil... Certainly not getting the responce I was hoping for.

NB. (ALL) there is now an export licence required in the UK - relevant if dealing with a private owner - NOT DEALER.
I was looking into a couple of 432's in private hands that were/are for sale. In the range of GBP 5000-8000 (=~ $13,000)

 

[patracy]

So I'm totally ignorant when it comes to this. But what would the total cost likely be? Maybe break it down in a cost by cost basis?

 

[Augdog1964]

Zebedee,

Sorry, but honestly in this instance it does indeed pay to be paranoid, and within the law. Of course if you brought in a few vehicles for yourself, kept them and used them for a few years, and then sold them... that demonstrates you were not making a business. So how long would this take? THAT is the problem... it is the ambiguity of the "ruling" that makes it fraught with potential issues for us all.

Nobody would be upset for you to help other people to get their vehicles in. Assistance in filling out Form 6s - I do that for people all the time. Introducing interested parties... fantastic. Filling out a Form 6 with your info, paying for and arranging the vehicle, bringing it in, and then selling it for a profit however - is making a business.... You will have to decide if you've crossed any line....

I am just now getting into British vehicles, so I would be very interested in what your contact may have as well...

Please believe me, I wasn't trying to destroy your idea or enthusiasm, BUT potentially save you from a lot of hassle and legal problems...

 

[Augdog1964]

Should this thread go away?

I'd love to have a tracked vehicle. But my funding is no where near where it should be for that. (Notice I didn't say my wife wouldn't let me!)

Unfortunately once the return button is hit... nothing every really goes away! LOL

 

[zebedee]

Dave/Phil/Heath (as appropriate)....... I guess untill I explained totally my situation, I got the "must be a know nothing nube" therefore got the "You don't know what I know, so I'll tell you what I know, then you'll know what I know...." Famous phrase in our family - My wife always got this from her father!!!

No offence taken.


Friend in UK is into VERY large stuff (Armoured Pacific wi trailer/Navy Sterling HCS330/Army D7 etc.) - does a lot of transporting for other Large Vehicle owners. Very experienced in most types of equipment etc. Plenty of time to play and loads of other contacts etc.
Has done a few 'boxes' for and with me - CVRT will go box - 432 needs to go RORO. Not sure of RoRo prices. Last 40' box was $4000 or so (US).

As far as other costs go - Dave will have some of those numbers.

 

[Heath_h49008]

I cannot wait to see these beauties come to this side of the pond.

This thread is valuable and should stay.

A: Because I want to see these machines.

B: Because it's an education in what hoops must be jumped if/when I have the means to do this myself.

 

[glassk]

The EUC informs the recipients that when this property is to be exported, they must comply with the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), 22 CFR 120 et seq.; Export Administration Regulations (EAR), 15 CFR 730 et seq.; and other applicable export laws and regulations.

 

[kochevnik]

I don't remember any 'Not for Resale' stamp on my paperwork for my 436. Maybe I missed it, but I dont think selling these as a private seller is much of a problem - I see them on Ebay ever couple of months and I doubt all those guys are 'dealers'.

As for doing a sorta-business in these, waste of time IMO. Actually pretty much ANY small business is a waste of time nowadays with the laws regulations and govt intervention you're just asking for trouble, and for what ? To clear 5k on an APC shipment ? Far too much trouble. Whatif it's lost or damaged en route ? What about when it doesnt start at the docks (like mine didnt).

And anyone interested in doing this is going to research it themselves - the paperwork is no harder than doing gun paperwork, I've posted examples and links right here on this site.

You want one, you need to go here : http://wwwfv432couk.freeforums.org/our-fv432-forum-t98.html

and here : http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php

and best you take a trip over there yourself - I didnt and it was a mistake.

TANSTAAFL. There arent a lot of shortcuts in life and after a lotta decades I have come to the conclusion that your best bet is, instead of spending your time scheming (and I am always guilty of this myself) - better to just do your homework and put in the extra work necessary to do what you want to do.

My 2 cents.

 

[kochevnik]

Forgot cost - I spent about 24k getting mine to the west coast - and I paid 'extra' to go thru a dealer who screwed me in a minor league way.

east coast and buying from an individual I think you could get it down to 15 to 20k depending on the exchange rate and how good a deal you could make with an individual. I turned down a private guy who one for 5k pounds so it would have been about 17 - 18k to go that route, but his apc was not as clean as what I ended up with so YMMV. You're buying old surplus mil equipment, you're aways taking a risk that things dont work.

And waiting is a big part too. It took about 5 months from doing the paperwork to delivery.

 

[wideload]

You guys need to be quick if you want 432s a big UK dealer has a large order for a foreign government and is currently buying up a lot of the privately owned ones. Should any of you want help over here vewing vehicles I would be willing to help. Dave we have already had some dealings.

 

[TehTDK]

and best you take a trip over there yourself - I didnt and it was a mistake.

Or ally yourself with a SS member in that particular country. I know I would try to help if someone wanted to look at importing a Danish military vehicle and wanted to know what condition etc it was in before making a run for it.

 

[Carlo]

You had better be careful importing vehicles, if the intention is to sell them...

Importing without being a registered importer through the government, can get you into some hot water.

Every Form 6 approved for personal import, is specifically stamped NOT FOR RESALE. Importing with the intention of selling the vehicles, even ultimately, especially since you've now documented it, could really be an issue.

If you truly want to make a business, go ahead and get the license.

My .02.

I gave heard of this law and i think it's a felon if it's sold based on personal import. Your corrrect