ultimate fire fighting vehicle

[emmado22]

Bottom line is that we dont have anything against you, but you really need to understand why using ex MV's as apparatus is a bad idea all around.

I've never seen an article in Fire Engineering written by Mr. Shand and Mr. Wilbur saying that EX MV's are the way to go for fire apparatus.. If it was, Im sure they would of written about it.

If you want to try to do it the right way, check this out. RBA0615 ESFS High Pressure System HMMWV

 

[Maverick1701]

My local FD is outfitting a 5ton as we speak and I just got them a HMMWV through LESO. Ill see if they have their plans written out yet...

I do know that the 5-ton is going to be used to shuttle water to/from the fire (along w/our tanker)
The HMMWV is going to be used as a command/control vehicle for the fire chief with extra radios, lights, everything else he wants.

 

[John S-B]

I am sorry guys, this isn't the thread i had thought it would be, and yes emmando22, they are in the process of applying and this is the back up plan. doghead, I'm sorry if I did something wrong towards you but I didnt mean it if I did....thanks for your time and effort. I appreciate your consideration.

It didn't turn out the way you thought it would because you don't have enought experience in this area, and it's VERY important to be informed. Don't take this as a beat down, use this to gain knowledge. The days of driving b@lls to the wall to a fire and seeing how much soot you can get on your face are over, and good riddance to them. This is the time of the smart professional firefighter. And just because you're a rural volunteer doesn't mean you can't act professional. It's not necessarily the equipment you have, it's the training and procedures that you have. I've got almost 30 years in fire and EMS, been on my large city dept for 20 years, and my rural vol. dept for 9, so I see both sides. Take your time with this and look at the problem from every angle. Decide what your budget, needs, and capabilities are. Know the NFPA requirement for apparatus, and see if it will help your ISO ratings. You need to show your taxpayers how this will improve your service. As was said, there is no reason this should be the Chief's toy. Your entire dept. needs to be properly trained to on every one of your trucks.
If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it right the second time?

Good luck.

 

[ODdave]

Not defending anyone, but around here they use many ex mil vehicals (mainly cucv's) for the rural FF departmants. The GLFD has a Beutiful 1028 with a removable tank/pump skid for there brush truck. In the UP they use some 5ton tankers.

The GLFD/ EMT also has 2 2004 ford f-350 ambulances that routinly break down (very bad). They have broke down during transport as well. They have since disposed of then as one cought on fire on the hwy......

 

[Chief_919]

You need to strat out by looking at folks who have done this before.

Roscommon Equipment Center

All the info you want and more can be found here.

My first piece of advice- forget a HMMWV. Get an M1008 or M1028 with a slide in wildland unit. It will work far better than a HMMWV, be more reliable, and you can get a factory made slide in unit.

 

[papaydsailor]

The forest service that i volunteered at use their borrowed ex military humvee as a brush truck to go look for brush fire and haul for illegal marijuana plantation up in the mountain because their regular civy truck always get stuck from the ditch trap that the illegal planters are putting to keep hikers and us away from their plants.

 

[goodguyzy]

the local fire dept in the bend, oregon area has a pretty sweet hmmwv turned into a brush truck.

 

[fasttruck]

As others have said free does not equal safe. My recollection of the NFPA firefighter line of duty death statistics is that most apparatus related deaths are caused by tanker rollovers typically caused by overloading and poor operator training and maintenance. And you have no idea obviously how much money is quickley unsaved in a line of duty death case.

 

[papaydsailor]

like this? this are all ex military converted to fire trucks

 

[quickfarms]

The keys to preventing accidents are good training and well designed equipment.

Department built equipment can be superior to factory built equipment if it is well designed due to the fact that it conforms to how your deparment works and not what the designer had in mind.

Some thoughts

Do not overload the vehicle

Keep the center of gravity as low as possible

Train the drivers and operators.

I have seen some real dangerour and stupid policies adopted by some very large departments.

CA has a special license for firefighters.

 

[M715VFD405]

I've said it before and I'll say it again there is nothing wrong with doing something home built if you do it right which is what this guy is asking for help on. What he's not asking for is a flame fest of your opinions of his typing skills grammer or anything else to do with how he communicates. We are here to help him out not badger him because he is looking at options for his department. A couple of you did this same thing on another thread of a guy that built a very good tanker. I've personally had enough there are ways of making your points without being a-holes to someone. How about this for starters anytime you do things yourself you can be held liable if the equipment fails. HOWEVER as it was said above most firefighter deaths are from roll overs. ANY vehicle can be rolled, add in water and you can x's that by 100. If he was going to build a POS he wouldn't he here asking the people who are suppose to know these MV's and know what they can and can't do. Dept around the country have been using MV's to fight fires for a very long time and while there are new apparatus out there not everyone can afford them even with grants. We are suppose to help him out here guys give him the options but leave the flaming out. He's not asking for safe driving tips he's asking for how to make whatever his dept chooses safer and reliable by seeing what others have done and not killed themselves with.

 

[downeast]

I think John Winslow was building trucks like what you're looking for. He is at jwinslowsales.com. You may be able to email him and get some information.

 

[John S-B]

I've said it before and I'll say it again there is nothing wrong with doing something home built if you do it right which is what this guy is asking for help on. What he's not asking for is a flame fest of your opinions of his typing skills grammer or anything else to do with how he communicates. We are here to help him out not badger him because he is looking at options for his department. A couple of you did this same thing on another thread of a guy that built a very good tanker. I've personally had enough there are ways of making your points without being a-holes to someone. How about this for starters anytime you do things yourself you can be held liable if the equipment fails. HOWEVER as it was said above most firefighter deaths are from roll overs. ANY vehicle can be rolled, add in water and you can x's that by 100. If he was going to build a POS he wouldn't he here asking the people who are suppose to know these MV's and know what they can and can't do. Dept around the country have been using MV's to fight fires for a very long time and while there are new apparatus out there not everyone can afford them even with grants. We are suppose to help him out here guys give him the options but leave the flaming out. He's not asking for safe driving tips he's asking for how to make whatever his dept chooses safer and reliable by seeing what others have done and not killed themselves with.

If someone considers me to be flaming the poster, or being an A-hole when giving adice on this topic, I have no problem with that if it saves a life. (I made no comment on the grammer, but dang!) This is not about putting the wrong shade of OD paint on a museum restoration, this could easily be a matter of life or death. My dept. had an M1025 that was used as a grass truck. It had a home built pressure system in it. (built before I was a member) We decided it was in our best interest to upgrade to a safer and more reliable truck. We turned it in, and some other dept. picked it up and aparently used the old system that was still in it. There is a young man that is now dead because of that. Something blew on the system and he was killed.
Safe driving tips also go hand in hand with MV's. They are not like anything else on the road, especially when modified. The quote from the young man's fire chief scares me, that's the kind of unprofessional thinking that gets guys killed. But please understand, I say what I say not to belittle the poster of this thread, but to try and make it clear that this kind of thing requires extensive planning and thought.

 

[doghead]

In reference to post # 16.

That was not only good advise based on what I read here on SS, but was also meant to get the OP to follow our site rules.

 

[fireman5199]

Even though I think the OP bailed I will put in my . I squirelled with a dept that had a deuce as a brush truck. It had an 1000 gal fuel oil tanker tank & frame set in the cargo bed a pump hooked to it and the equipment/hose put inthe bed around the tank...Bad set up top heavy, probably overloaded, no enough warning lights, got stuck often on soft ground and no one really knew how to maintain it. I just found out they got rid of it.

VADOF used civie Hummers for brush trucks for awhile then switched to Ford F-450s mainly due to maintenance isssues, I believe. The Hummer I worked on was a 2 door with 200 gallons. It was well built in the state shops nice set up for a brush rig. Low tank, pump & Robwen foam system where rear doors would be on a 4 door on one side with storage on other side and tool boxes on the bed fender area for hose lines and hand tools along with a hose reel and storage basket on-top of the tank and a winch. atleast one had a remote turret but was a maintenace nightmare which I hear is common with them. Not overloaded or top heavy. Just a pain to ride in/drive in cause there is no room in the front of the relativly big vehicles. Even this lacked adequate warning lights though. Tool boxes made a good bed too during breaks on big fires cause you weren't stretching out in in the cab

Both the Hummer and Deuce were hard to get around in the dense woods of the area. Windshield of the hummer got replaced more than once.

Just do it right. Train on it. Maintain it. Learn about your base vehicle. Don't overload it. AFG money is going to go to someone why not you.

Canadian Military has just took delivery of some nice International off-road chassis 1000 gallon brush rigs that are designed to be firetrucks.

Here is a link to a department in the north east that modified a 5-ton truck and put alot of work into it to make what appears to be a nice truck for their needs.
http://www.fireengineering.com/arti...tus-for-high-water-rescue-and-evacuation.html

 

[quickfarms]

This post has been turned into a bash fest. He is asking for help to design equipment that is good.

Unless you want to help him with the grant paperwork or have your department donate a truck to his department please stop it your point has been made.

One of you stated that your department turned in a substandard truck that eventually killed some one. Your department was neglegent for turning in this unit. It should have been scrapped due to the fact that you knew about the flaws.

Another example was putting a 1000 gal tank on a duece and it would get stuck on soft ground. the truck is rated for 2 1/2 tons off road and 1000 gal of water weighs about 4 tons plus the tank and other equipment. The truck was overloaded for off road.

A department that spends all of its money on new equipment but does not have any money left for training may look great on paper but in reality is less effective than a department that has good equipment nad actually trains.

No one has talked about the DOT regulations that affect the trucks and the state laws that cover the drivers.

If the trucks are designed to comply with the DOT regulations and the drivers meet the requirements of the state for the class of vehicule they are driving than the liability issue is muted.

Now back to the original question

Please look through this site. They have a lot of information that can be downloaded on this subject.

Roscommon Equipment Center

WS Darley can supply anything from parts to slidein to complete trucks.

Complete Source for Firefighting Equipment Including Turnout Gear, Rescue Tools, Hazmat, Hose and More - eDarley.com

You mentioned the Duece and the Hmmwv but you did not mention the Cucv and the Cucv2

The duece is a truck and should include specific driver training unless the driver has a CDL with the tenk endorsement.

The Hmmwv is wider that the Cucv and should be be driven by drivers that are aware of this. this width can be a hinderence in tight situations.

The Cucv and Cucv2 are pickup trucks and can be ourfitted with slid in units.

The capicty of the duece is a bout 500 gallons and the smaller trucks is a bout 200 gallons.

Remember

Driver training is very important

Keep the CG low

Build it well

Another option that has not been mentioned is does your city have access to DRMO equiment? They some times have AWD fire trucks.

Good luck on your effort to help your department.

 

[Darwin T]

do a search for Fire Truck there was a post a couple of weeks back where a guy built one foe his VFD on a deuce. he did some great work.

 

[quickfarms]

If this is the post that you are refereing to the base truck looks like a streched M915

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/requirements-new-members/73734-fire-truck.html

 

[emmado22]

I wouldnt call it a bash fest, I'd call it an enlightening moment, because some people/depts really think this old surplus equipment is acceptable.

Bottom line, the AGF grants exactly for depts like this. Put in the application and wait for the round annoucements to come.

It doesnt have to cost alot of $ to train. The internet and fire magazine are full of low/no cost training just about anyone can do in their station.

 

[Darwin T]

If this is the post that you are refereing to the base truck looks like a streched M915

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/requirements-new-members/73734-fire-truck.html

Yep tats da 1. i think he did a great job.