unimog help

[Mike_Pop]

Chris & Mike,

Instead of guessing at what the problem might be...Mike, join the Moglist and contact Kai Serrano. I posted the info earlier. He knows his stuff about Mog diesels. You will save a lot of time by seeking out the right people. No offense to you Chris.

 

[UnimogMike]

Hello to all,
When I say gas I speak of diesel fuel. The pump is completely mechanical, it has a cam and gear and the reason I loosened the tubes to injectors was just to see if any at all diesel would come out of the top and not a drop of diesel came out from the top. There is no solenoid attached at the pump. The way I know all of this is because it has the same motor as the SEE Unimog and I found the service manual for this model on line at one of the off-road BBS. From talking to the man that I picked it up from, who actually used it at Fort Brag told me from beginning that the truck was working OK until they did not start it for 1 year and then they also diagnosed the problem to be IP and that is why they decided to sell it through DRMO. The diesel is red in color (off-road diesel) up to the top lid which should reduce spoilage, but even if it has gone bad it would go through the pump unless fuel jelled inside the pump and something inside of it froze up or clogged up.
Hope this explains my thinking. To add to all of that I just had a CODE ENFORCEMENT come by and tell me I am not allowed to keep work truck in my back yard (the same truck we are talking about) thanks to my neighbors complaining about it. I explained to her that it is my hobby, but she insisted that that is a commercial truck. I am also interested if any of other people on this BB have SEE or HMMH or model like mine, it appears to be rare.
Thank you again for all the help.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Mike Pop, I am not guessing at what the problem it. I am trying to systematically eliminate possible problems through conversations with the owner. I have diagnosed a lot of diesel issues over the years including the OM617 in my 300SD. They may not have been OM352 unimog diesels, but a lot of diesels have a lot in common. I am sure the Mog List guys will be helpful. I have been a member there ever since I started shopping for my 404. UnimogMike came here looking for answers and I have been doing my best to help him find them.

UnimogMike, that is ridiculous about the code enforcement folks. I would make a few phone calls about that and put up a "spite fence" between you and the neighbors.

 

[Mike_Pop]

Chris,

My apologies. I'll stay out of this thread.

 

[steelsoldiers]

No problem, Mike. I just got a little riled up I guess. Kai Serrano would be an excellent contact. There are some good guys on the Rocky Mountain Moggers site too.

 

[DSD277]

Just saw this thread. The SEE Mog in the pic is a406 ( as previously stated) ,but was also sold in the US by Case as a MB94. The implement plate in front would have been for a loader bucket, especially since the hood was loose. Hood were removed with front loaders as the hood could not be openned with the loader mounted.... A back hoe could have been fitted to the rear, if the bed has a cutout/insert for it. I just saw one of these at Camp Pendleton 2 months ago....a beautful piece of equipment.
On the OM252 engine, the fuel shutoff is mechancial ( if it's the same on the 406 as the 1300,). ..on the 1300, the throttle linkage is pulled the opposite direction to cutoff the fuel, so if you have the linkage set all the way back,it could be as simple as having the fuel shut off. Unfortunately, I haven't dug into a406, but that may be a place to look. Then call a Case dealership and see if they have a mechanic that's has worked on them.... calling freightliner would be a waste of time since their knowledge starts in '01 with the U500 Mogs

Dave Dunn

 

[steelsoldiers]

According to the guy that runs the yard at Bragg, this one was only used as a yard truck on the Bragg lot. It never had a bucket or a back-hoe mounted to it. It had a porta-crane mounted in the bed and some stiff-legs mounted under the bed to support it while using the crane. It does not have a SEE or HMMH bed on it. It looks like one Freightliner received to be outfitted as a SEE, but then sold without the conversion.

 

[DSD277]

What the military did or didn't do with it, really doesn't matter, but as it has an implement plate on it, I would assume the the rest of the truck would have basic equipment , as supplied... a pic of the inside of the bed would tell more.... no matter, as it is the getting it running was the problem. As a few people have suggested, Kia would be the best for an answer. Not suggesting anyone away from this forum, but you wouldn't ask a Toyota mechanic how to fix a Porsche, would you? I belong to several forums, Land Rover, Pinzgauer,Haflinger and Unimog beside here ( as most members here belong to other forums), asking a group of people that have 406s, 416s and MB94s would be the logical choice. A few make a living working on these trucks, and a quick to help others.

Dave Dunn

 

[tennmogger]

Hello,

Sounds to me that Mike has done an excellent job of diagnosing a possibly bad IP, but see below. After bleeding both fuel filters as you have done, that's usually enough to get it pumping and started. It's not usually necessary to loosen the injector lines. When you start loosening those it's easy to break a line. These engines start remarkably well when everything is right.

This engine does not have a fuel solenoid. It is turned off by manually reducing fuel setting on the IP to zero. It's my guess that the fuel feed has not been re-enabled with the throttle. The hand throttle can be set to full speed ahead to insure the IP is enabled to pump. Be ready to reduce it to high idle when it starts. Of course if the foot throttle is held down that does the same thing but if the foot is lifted, the engine is killed again, unless the hand throttle is preset to at least idle.

You might try bleeding again. All it takes is one air ingress point in the fuel lines behind the hand pump and you'll loose prime. One trick is to use an electric fuel pump as a lift pump and feed the IP with that, maybe even from a separate container. Dirt in the system can cause problems but that's usually not an issue even if the truck sits for years. As you noticed it has a prefilter bowl with fine metal mesh, followed by two fuel filters.

You did change the fuel filters didn't you? I should have read your post better.

Your truck is an HMMH, high mobility material handler. Tech manual is TM 5-2420-224-10. Got my copy off Ebay.

Let us know how it's going.

Bob
Greenback, TN

 

[tennmogger]

I forgot to mention that you should sample the fuel in the tank. Stir up the tank, drain out a pint or so and look at it. If clear, it's probably ok, but if cloudy it might be growing. Diesel fuel gets contaminated by algae if it sets too long. That will plug the filters almost immediately. Replacing the filters is a necessity in either case.

I read back and saw a reference to the ether start system. It's called Start-Pilot and requires ether in a special can to charge a reservoir with liquid ether. In Florida you should never have to use ether, and IMHO should not. If you absolutely must spray in ether, have the engine turning over at good rpm before spraying. WD-40 sprayed into the air input tube (not through the air filter) makes a gentler starting fluid.

Bob

 

[steelsoldiers]

Hey Bob! Always nice to see you on SS. I remember having a discussion about this truck with you before it came up on GL. It doesn't look like a HMMH to me. I know I have some pics around here of it. I don't think it had any of the hydraulic fittings in the front next to the implement plate. The bed is totally different too.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Ah-ha! Found the pics. Mike, I hope you don't mind me posting these. If you do, let me know and I will take them down.

As you can see, it is a very cool and very unique Mog. The data plate calls it a FLU419. I am jealous, Mike. I can't wait to see it up and running. Please post a vid when you get it going.

 

[tennmogger]

Hi Chris, Is that the same truck? Senior moment maybe. I definitely hadn't seen those good pics. It certainly is as interesting and unique truck.

Bob

 

[steelsoldiers]

Hey Bob,
I don't think I had those pics when I talked to you about it. I think we just looked at the GL pics. A SS friend that lives near Bragg ran through and snapped some pics for me when I told him I wanted to bid on it. I'd love to see it up close sometime.

Mike, if you get it running soon, you should bring it to the SS Rally in Fla! It would make short work of the swamp with the axles locked up and some fresh meats on it!

Chris

 

[UnimogMike]

Thank you Mike Pop I will get in touch with Unimog specific BB as well, also thank you Chris for your help and Pictures. When I was bidding on it I bet I had to go up against somebody from this BB or one of another Unimog BB'S and fortunately I was able to get it after all. This model must be the rarest 419 trucks in existence. Just to recap all the suggestins, replace fuel filters first, then use electric fuel pump to force feed the fuel into IP and that may be able to get it going, correct? If so, then I have two more questions. First is where do I get 2 new fuel filters (fast ), any phone number or locations and what part # to ask for. Second question, what kind of electric fuel pump should I use, any suggestions?
As far as a throttle handle near the gas pedal, I did keep it pulled towards me so the fuel would continue to flow into injectors. I do understand that if you push the hand throttle away from the driver it will reduce and then shot down flow of fuel. Hope I am on the right path.
Thank you again and keep suggestions coming.
Mike

 

[tennmogger]

The fuel filters are available at NAPA, - NAPA 3167, or Baldwin PF-834. You might take along your old one to be sure because MB sneaks changes in on us. However, getting the real filter from a Mog parts guy is a good idea because the MB part has the seals and O-rings. You might get away without replacing those seals for a while, but inspect the old ones well.

Closest to you is probably Sean Philyaw at http://eurotruck-importers.com/archive/index.htm

Sean sells filters on Ebay all the time and ships fast.

NAPA could probably recommend an electric pump but considering you hadn't changed the filters, maybe try that first. Even gravity feeding from a small container held high will eliminate air ingress to get your testing done. The electric pump is only needed at times like this, but is a blessing after a filter change to make bleeding so simple.

Oh yes, those hand priming pumps can start leaking air also. There's a John Deere tractor priming pump that bolts right up and costs around 20 bucks.

Bob

 

[UnimogMike]

Thank you Tennmogger, I will do the filters first. Any suggestions which specific electric pump to get or can I use cheap gasoline 12 volt pump?
I am hoping to avoid having to rebuild the pump which does appear to be clogged up. if I can get some fuel flowing then it should clear up after it is used for a while. Also this truck has can of starting fluid attached on passenger side of engine compartment, which appears to be empty. Where can I get such a can so I can replace the empty one?
Mike.

 

[TedG]

Nice MOG! Perhaps I missed it in all the threads, but does the mechanical IP linkage actually actuate the IP? Make sure. The hand throttle should coincide with the fuel peddle thus verifying its position. My hand throttle is on the dash and rotates ccw to increase fuel. Mogs injection system is very good and you will need to give 100% pedal to get the system flowing...just becareful when she starts to ignite that you bring back the pedal enough to keep her alive but not too much to over accelerate. Have you prelubed the engine? Change oils and filters? Sometimes the fun of getting it running overpowers the need to pm the engine. The ether gismo is might be a German system. You should not need it in the south. If you do use it, then only activate it while engine is cranking! Check the engine hour meter which is located on the front of the IP. These OM352 engine are extremely reliable and you can tweek the IP adjust screw a few degrees to get 120hp. What tranny does it have? It looks like the 20speed...if so it is highly sought after by moggers.

I would recommend that the serial number (located on the passenger side frame rail ahead of the front axel ) be provided to Sean Phylaw in GA. He can then provide you with the build information and most importantly the correct parts in a timely manner.

Not to promote another site, but there is also a several good mog people on the benzworld site...

Good luck and if you loose interest in the truck, call me and I will arrange a transporter

Regards,

 

[UnimogMike]

Thank you TedG, I did make sure to add oil into the engine and when I started it on ether I did press the gas pedal all the way in and the hand throttle came back towards me to increase fuel flow. It does look like IP is not providing fuel, I am hoping to unclogg it and after I get it running them I will replace all the fluids and make all the adjustments and get new windshield if it is still available.
How do I get to speak to Sean Phylaw in GA, would you have his phone number or a link to his web page.
Thank you again to all for very warm assistance.

 

[TedG]

Sean Phylaw
Eurotruck Importers
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/

http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=contact_us

Check out his site and give him a call. Good honest person with a good business. Also, get the manuals!

Attached is where my vin is.