Upgraded deuce's tires to Goodyear G177 11.00R20s (dualed)

[Jeepsinker]

I was thinking the cases have opposite offsets, so it might work. I don't know. Just got home after a long day of driving and I don't have one on hand to look at.

 

[clinto]

I have used the speedometer shop that's there in Roswell, but I can't remember the name of the place. I think it's these guys:

http://www.hampspeedometer.com/

Any speedo shop that can rebuild old school mechanical speedos should be able to build you an adapter if the military one proves to be unavailable. It's simply a gearbox that will go in between the cable and the gearbox.

A lot of modern speedo shops only service modern electronic clusters (speedo shops ain't what they used to be ) so you'll need to ask.


Never used these guys: http://atlantaspeedometer.com/Atlanta_Speedometer/GM.html

There are a few others in Atlanta metro, never used them.


I still think the military one is out there, it just may not be on eBay right now. Call White Owl, Memphis, etc and see what they can do.

 

[The Stig]

I have used the speedometer shop that's there in Roswell, but I can't remember the name of the place. I think it's these guys:

http://www.hampspeedometer.com/

Same guys I was speaking about. They use to be called Speedometer Services. The owner wanted to get out of the business so Mr. Hamp who worked there bought the company and changed the name is my understanding. I also believe its a simple affair for someone like them to make the change. Just a matter of verifying with them the possibility of that.

 

[General Mcgregor]

I bought wheel spacers (for the rear) from Kryptonite Kustoms (I ordered 1/4" thick spacer plates but maybe 3/8" thick would have been better. Maybe 1/2" would have been even better, but I don't recall if there was enough thread space on the studs):
http://www.kryptonitekustoms.com/product_p/kk-rwrockspacer.htm

Awesome!!! I had visions of chopping up old Deuce rims to build them as a cost effective solution, but those are very reasonably priced.

 

[tobyS]

Awesome!!! I had visions of chopping up old Deuce rims to build them as a cost effective solution, but those are very reasonably priced.

You know the A3 rims and 365's are the same revolutions per mile as the 11.00's? Have you thought about using dual 11.00 on the rear and 365's with A3 rims on the front?

Do the rear duals rub with budds and 11.00's?

The spacers are for front...correct?

 

[General Mcgregor]

You know the A3 rims and 365's are the same revolutions per mile as the 11.00's? Have you thought about using dual 11.00 on the rear and 365's with A3 rims on the front?

Do the rear duals rub with budds and 11.00's?

The spacers are for front...correct?

Not 100% sure what you are saying here, spacers are for rear to decrease rubbing on the trunnion cap bolts, right Valence? I will be running my stock Budds, G177s all around and dual rears.

 

[tobyS]

Okay, got it on where the rubbing occurs and why the spacer there.

It's not clear but I was asking if the dual tires rub together, thus need additional space between also.

I was saying that 365's are the same diameter as the 11.00 and you could have a bit more flotation tire, not have as much offset with an A3 rim as a budd that is reversed. Thus a tiny bit wider stance and tire width on the front...which I like.

I wanted that setup on my 817 dump but could not get 365 and 5 ton combat wheels to mate (per people here on SS) (yet Oshkosh Equipment has one for sale on ebay right now, says it mates fine).

 

[General Mcgregor]

Ah that makes sense, from what I have read they don't rub together.
Wider stance in the front sounds nice, I may experiment with that later on but first I just want to get everything switched over to the 11.00s.

 

[Valence]

Not 100% sure what you are saying here, spacers are for rear to decrease rubbing on the trunnion cap bolts, right Valence? I will be running my stock Budds, G177s all around and dual rears.

Yes, the addition of the spacer plates in the rear is just to move the tires out further away from the suspension to help avoid/prevent rubbing issues. The spacer plates are NOT needed in front and should NOT be placed BETWEEN the the duals - You wouldn't get the inner lugnut on correctly if you tried because the plate lug holes aren't tapered for that.


Also, not all tire sizes are created equal - especially between brands - even if they both say 11.00R20. Michelin 11.00R20s are not the same diameter as Goodyear G177 11.00R20s, and NDT 11.00R20s are a slight different diameter than both. According to Goodyear's website, the G177 11.00R20 has a diameter of 43.7 inches, and 478 revolutions per mile (RPM).


See page 11:
https://www.goodyeartrucktires.com/pdf/resources/publications/2015_mixed_service_brochure.pdf

Michelin XL 11.00R20s are 43.1 inches in diameter, and 481 revolutions per mile.


My original goal was to run Michelin XL 11.00R20 duals in the rear and Michelin XL 14.5R20s in the front for the wider super single in the front (much like tobyS has suggested). But from the above spec, you can see that the Michelin XL 14.5R20s are slightly taller than the Michelin XL 11.00R20. 43.4" vs 43.1" for 482 revolutions per mile vs 481 revolutions per mile, respectively. The Michelin 365/80R20 XZL (not to be confused with the 365/85R20) is a different tread pattern (hence XZL vs XL), but - as far as I can determine in my research - is a matching size for the Michelin 11.00R20. I haven't found a Goodyear version or the 365/80R20 that matches the G177 11.00R20.


So to do as tobyS indicated - you need to make sure you match your tire diameters. Of course, it'll not really matter if the front axle is not engaged on pavement or where you use your truck the tires have adequate ability to "slip" to make up the difference. If not, you'll bind your drive-train until a tire skips/hops or something breaks.



ANYWAY - I strongly suggest to stay on the topic of this thread - Caster adjustment - not choice or configuration of tires.

 

[michigandon]

You know the A3 rims and 365's are the same revolutions per mile as the 11.00's? Have you thought about using dual 11.00 on the rear and 365's with A3 rims on the front?

Search around in these forums, and you'll find some folks who have done exactly that.

It's pretty cool! Give a deuce that "gravel truck" look.

 

[tobyS]

Search around in these forums, and you'll find some folks who have done exactly that.

It's pretty cool! Give a deuce that "gravel truck" look.

I was hoping to find some pictures of this tire combination being done.

While the caster is the main thread, it hardly seems off topic to discuss the alternatives in tires and wheels since switching to G177 would involve all wheels in most cases. I'm considering going to G177 rear duals on an A3, if I can get one at a price I can afford and the transmission can be repaired.

My choice of an A3 (which I think I have located now) would mean that caster is already done and I have plenty of clearance with the front wheel, but need a spacer against the hub in the rear to put on budds (duels with G177's).

I note that the revolutions per mile are very close, not perfect, but I don't plan on running hard, dry pavement in 6x to cause much of a problem. Newer ones will last a lifetime, I would expect.

My point is, that an A2 with the caster modification, can use the A3 rim on the front, not only the budd style offset rim. It's a minor point but does belong on this thread.

 

[General Mcgregor]

Still hoping to find out if I can do this mod before I have the tires installed, will there be negative handling effects on the stock 9.00s?

 

[tobyS]

I want to note something I came across in one of the older threads looking for a picture (unsuccessfully). The G177 is rated as a drive tire and not a steer tire, so use it at your own risk on a somewhat narrow budd rim. Might not be a good tire for the front.

The handling of the larger tires magnifies the problem, so I can't see it (changing the caster angle) having as much of an effect with 9.00's, but I wouldn't expect it to be negative or detrimental. It's just a guess, since I have only heard this mod is needed for larger tires.

 

[General Mcgregor]

I want to note something I came across in one of the older threads looking for a picture (unsuccessfully). The G177 is rated as a drive tire and not a steer tire, so use it at your own risk on a somewhat narrow budd rim. Might not be a good tire for the front

They come stock on the front of many 5 tons.
Right?

 

[sandcobra164]

I'm fairly confident that a Goodyear, Michelin, or Firestone Radial 11R20 is a safer steer tire than any of the available NDT Bias Ply's. One reason the M939 series included radials as part of the ABS mod is the increased traction which equates to increased safety. I read the MWO and the Army did testing that concluded that even with ABS, the trucks performed poorly during braking tests when equipped with NDT's. I've never known of a durability issue with the radials and I ran them on my Deuce for 5 years until I sold it. They're still on it and I'm sure the Firestone T831's are doing fine in that application.

 

[tobyS]

They come stock on the front of many 5 tons.
Right?

I know it, I had 2 of them with the G177. I also notice the front leaning in curves but never lost the seal on one (tubeless).

Is the 5 ton budd wheel the same width as the deuce? Are there other offsets available for a deuce, maybe a wider rim but not the A3 size? Do tubed radials perform the came as tubeless? The deuce A2 rim is a tube type, isn't it?

 

[rustystud]

I know it, I had 2 of them with the G177. I also notice the front leaning in curves but never lost the seal on one (tubeless).

Is the 5 ton budd wheel the same width as the deuce? Are there other offsets available for a deuce, maybe a wider rim but not the A3 size? Do tubed radials perform the came as tubeless? The deuce A2 rim is a tube type, isn't it?

The tires perform the same you just need to be aware of the extra heat generated with the tubes in.

 

[jbayer]

i know it, i had 2 of them with the g177. I also notice the front leaning in curves but never lost the seal on one (tubeless).

is the 5 ton budd wheel the same width as the deuce? are there other offsets available for a deuce, maybe a wider rim but not the a3 size? Do tubed radials perform the came as tubeless? The deuce a2 rim is a tube type, isn't it?

yes.

 

[General Mcgregor]

Cool! I hope you like 'em as much as I do mine!

I bought wheel spacers (for the rear) from Kryptonite Kustoms (I ordered 1/4" thick spacer plates but maybe 3/8" thick would have been better. Maybe 1/2" would have been even better, but I don't recall if there was enough thread space on the studs):
http://www.kryptonitekustoms.com/product_p/kk-rwrockspacer.htm

You can read more in depth about them on my thread, posts #13-25 (the meat of it regarding the spacer plate)
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...20s-(dualed)&p=1752369&viewfull=1#post1752369

And I wish I could help on your other questions but I don't know enough...

Valence I am about to order the spacer plates, if you had to do it over again would you have ordered the thicker plates? There is a pretty significant cost difference but if the thicker ones will be better in the long run I would rather just get them now.

 

[Valence]

Valence I am about to order the spacer plates, if you had to do it over again would you have ordered the thicker plates? There is a pretty significant cost difference but if the thicker ones will be better in the long run I would rather just get them now.

Hmmmm, you know, I just took my deuce on a trip this weekend. If you can wait ~24 hours, tomorrow in the day light (after I drive my deuce home) I will inspect the rear closely - as I've not done so yet. I'll see how that 1/4" plate is doing for my rubbing issues (rubber pieces, marks, paint wear, etc). Then I'll report my opinion on "if I could have a do over."