Using thicker oil

[glcaines]

You could have the oil sample tested to tell you the condition of the engine.

Testing the oil is a good idea in any case. It can tell you a lot and prevent future problems. I'm a pilot and a few years back, the oil test on my Cessna came back with metal in the oil. It turned out the camshaft was failing rapidly. Without the oil test I wouldn't have known.

 

[GopherHill]

I suggest using 40wt diesel oil AFTER you check oil pump and relief valve. Oil analysis is a good idea for longer term information.

 

[csheath]

I'm a little ahead of you guys on the oil sample recommendation. I already ordered a sample kit from Blackstone.

The unit has 2856 hours on it and 239 on the oil but the oil has been in it for 7 years. It's had a couple of week long outages and some shorter ones with a monthly one hour exercise with a 40 amp load. This is the first time it ever dropped below 18 PSI and shut down and it came back to life and ran at 18 for 6 more hours after the 30 minute cool down. The shut down happened right after my morning visual inspection with the doors open and I'm thinking that contributed to the drop in pressure even though I just opened one door at a time to peek in. I did check temperature while looking and it was running at 178 degrees on the thermostat housing.

I agree that thicker oil isn't a fix and I knew that before asking. Just thinking on the computer for a band aid approach but not finding any love.

I've still convinced myself to try an oil change and see if that helps before diving into a tear down. If it doesn't I will pull the side cover and do some poking around. Will see what Blackstone comes back with on the oil analysis.

 

[Triple Jim]

In general, with various engines, I normally see an increase in oil pressure after an oil change, even if it's the same type and viscosity of oil. This is especially true for oil that's been run over 200 hours.

 

[2Pbfeet]

I'm a little ahead of you guys on the oil sample recommendation. I already ordered a sample kit from Blackstone.

The unit has 2856 hours on it and 239 on the oil but the oil has been in it for 7 years. It's had a couple of week long outages and some shorter ones with a monthly one hour exercise with a 40 amp load. This is the first time it ever dropped below 18 PSI and shut down and it came back to life and ran at 18 for 6 more hours after the 30 minute cool down. The shut down happened right after my morning visual inspection with the doors open and I'm thinking that contributed to the drop in pressure even though I just opened one door at a time to peek in. I did check temperature while looking and it was running at 178 degrees on the thermostat housing.

I agree that thicker oil isn't a fix and I knew that before asking. Just thinking on the computer for a band aid approach but not finding any love.

I've still convinced myself to try an oil change and see if that helps before diving into a tear down. If it doesn't I will pull the side cover and do some poking around. Will see what Blackstone comes back with on the oil analysis.

With that many hours (running, and standing around in Florida humidity) on the oil, I would not be surprised if your oil is just degraded. Water (humidity) and oxygen are hard on oils, and additives. Fingers crossed that changing the oil solves your problem.

I am personally in favor of more frequent, rather than less frequent, oil changes. Mentally I have it filed under "belt and suspenders".

 

[csheath]

DOH!

It just dawned on me I did a ATF flush in 2018 and when I drained and refilled with the prescribed amount it was overfilled by almost a quart on the stick. I just remembered the bodywork was bent at the drain and I wasn't sure I got all the ATF out. I THINK I straightened the body and just never worried about doing a follow up oil change. It remains overfilled and has never used any oil. At least I wrote it in the maintenance record to back up my failing memory.

I am going to change it and run it some with the load bank to see what it holds. It generally only takes about an hour for it to drop to 18 PSI but then it holds there. I will give it a good two hour run and see what it does with fresh oil.

 

[rickf]

I would still take a sample of the drained oil and send it in to be analyzed to see if there is any metal in it. Once you drain it and put fresh oil in it you need a fair amount of run time before you can get it analyzed.

 

[csheath]

Got around to changing the oil this afternoon. I used Mobile Delo 1300 15W-40 and added 15 ounces of STP. Ran it a while with a 40 amp load and it got down to 22 PSI and stayed. I was hoping for a little better but it's close enough to the 25 PSI minimum spec.

I pulled a good sample in a clean Ball jar to send off.

Pretty sure the old oil was diluted with at least 3/4 quart of ATF that didn't totally drain the last time. It poured very thin.

I think straightening the bodywork allowed it to totally drain this time. Adding back the measured amount brought it right to the full line on the dipstick.

 

[2Pbfeet]

Got around to changing the oil this afternoon. I used Mobile Delo 1300 15W-40 and added 15 ounces of STP. Ran it a while with a 40 amp load and it got down to 22 PSI and stayed. I was hoping for a little better but it's close enough to the 25 PSI minimum spec.

I pulled a good sample in a clean Ball jar to send off.

Pretty sure the old oil was diluted with at least 3/4 quart of ATF that didn't totally drain the last time. It poured very thin.

I think straightening the bodywork allowed it to totally drain this time. Adding back the measured amount brought it right to the full line on the dipstick.

Congratulations on getting the oil pressure up.

Can I ask which STP product you added?

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[DieselAddict]

Pretty sure the old oil was diluted with at least 3/4 quart of ATF that didn't totally drain the last time. It poured very thin.

On the plus side I bet its clean as a whistle inside!

 

[csheath]

Congratulations on getting the oil pressure up.

Can I ask which STP product you added?

All the best,

2Pbfeet

STP High Viscosity Oil Treatment

 

[2Pbfeet]

Thanks!

 

[rickf]

Was the sample the old oil or the new oil? If new then it will not tell you if there are any engine issues.

 

[Ray70]

With the bodywork straightened, now you can get the "normal" amount of oil drained out... not all of it by any means!
The design of the drain line will leave well over 1/2qt. of old oil in the bottom of the block, probably closer to a 3/4qt.
Tipping the gen towards the drain line can help some, but definitely the greatest design!

 

[2Pbfeet]

With the bodywork straightened, now you can get the "normal" amount of oil drained out... not all of it by any means!
The design of the drain line will leave well over 1/2qt. of old oil in the bottom of the block, probably closer to a 3/4qt.
Tipping the gen towards the drain line can help some, but definitely the greatest design!

I just used a 6x6" under the rear end, and it seems to drain almost all of the oil out. (Less than 0.1Qt left)

Having a forklift helps...

@csheath Doing the math on the STP, it seems like the STP gets the oil to just shy of 20W50, so I suspect that either your oil pump is on the way out, or the bypass valve is malfunctioning, but you never know.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Tinstar]

The unit has 2856 hours on it and 239 on the oil but the oil has been in it for 7 years

239 hours on same oil that hasn't been changed in 7 years in Florida's climate.

WOW

 

[Tinstar]

Disregard

 

[csheath]

Oil test results are finally in.

Based on my memory of events and history of this machine I think the oil was diluted by doing an ATF flush and not getting all of the ATF out before refilling. This engine is and has been at the lower level of oil pressure since I got it but runs steady with no adverse noises and packs plenty of power. I am going to continue to run and rely on it as is for the time being.

Other than the low oil viscosity the test results didn't come up with an abnormal amount of metals or wear indicators.

This is their example page for results.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Understanding-Engine-combined.pdf

This is a screen shot of the results from the oil sample I sent in from my MEP.

 

[nextalcupfan]

So I actually use Blackstone Labs for oil analysis as well.
I'll provide some of my numbers so we can have a point of reference.

Here is my 803a's oil report from its last oil change.
hours on oil was 157, oil used was AMSOil HD 15w40.


Here is my daily driver trucks oil report. (the one in my profile picture)
3,700 miles on the oil, type AMSOil Signature 5w30.


And here is the oil report for the transmission in the same truck.
25,000 Miles on the oil, type AMSOil Signature ATF. (As you can tell I like AMSOil)


Just looking at my numbers honestly it looks less like you had some ATF dilution and were running straight ATF this whole time.
I also noticed your flashpoint was low and fuel % much higher, that might be worth looking into.

 

[rickf]

Oil test results are finally in.

Based on my memory of events and history of this machine I think the oil was diluted by doing an ATF flush and not getting all of the ATF out before refilling. This engine is and has been at the lower level of oil pressure since I got it but runs steady with no adverse noises and packs plenty of power. I am going to continue to run and rely on it as is for the time being.

Other than the low oil viscosity the test results didn't come up with an abnormal amount of metals or wear indicators.

This is their example page for results.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Understanding-Engine-combined.pdf

This is a screen shot of the results from the oil sample I sent in from my MEP.
View attachment 907854

A little light on the Phosphorus and zinc but exceptionally good on the metals. The new oil should raise the zinc and phosphorus. You could always add just a little bit of ZDDP. very little! Too much is worse than not enough.