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WA / OR non-CDL guys

pantherjames653

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Hey i got a question now about Connecticut. i have a 1969 5 ton M54 that i am trying to register. the last 2 times ive been to the DMV noone knew what the heck to do about plates and GVW. also, they didnt know if i needed a CDL being a classic vehicle and not having any loads in it or trailers. after spending a total of over 8 hours and no strait answers ive pretty much only got the temprary plates.:mad: right now it getting the DOT inspections done which are a pain in itself. The DMV said i needed DOT numbers but i called DOT up and they said i didnt. auathey wrote 14,000 unloaded weight and 30,000 loaded ( even tho i cant put a load in it) it has air brakes. if anyone can help it would be appreciated. i dont want to live at the DMV anymore:cookoo:
 

Ruppster

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As I mentioned before CDL requirements are based on the vehicles actual rating (GVWR) and not how much you are actually carrying. If it has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more then odds are a CDL will be needed unless they exempt personal use trucks. Whether you never plan on going over 22,000 pounds means nothing to them.

As far as CT you got to love Google. In less then 3 minutes I found this:


http://www.ct.gov/dmv/LIB/dmv/20/29/mch.pdf


Has a lot of legal terms in it which might not tell you much but it does include several phone numbers for the powers that be that should have an answer for you.

Also found:

Department of Motor Vehicles|

From there it links to a list of exemptions from CDL requirements and it does not mention private use. Seems to only go by weight.

When asking about CDL's and DOT numbers watch out for terms like "motor carrier" and "interstate commerce". The best thing to do is find out what your state defines as a "commercial motor vehicle". If it uses the phrase "a vehicle used in the act of commerce" in the definition you may have a way out. If they don't use that phrase you may be stuck. You might also want to find out what state statute sets the laws used by DMV. When I looked in to Alaska statutes I found 2 different statutes, one was about DMV and vehicle registration while the second one handled weights and measurements (i.e. weigh scales and inspections). Each statute was worded a little different. The weights and measurements statute used the terms "in commerce" to define a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) and had the exemption for personal use. Since I wasn't "in commerce" or for hire I did not need to stop at scales or get annual DOT inspections. But the DMV statute left out the term "in commerce" while defining a CMV along with the exemption for person use. So by the Alaskan DMV department I am commercial based only on GVWR and need a CDL but by another state agency I am not commercial and therefore I don't need a log book, a med card, DOT numbers, and annual inspections.

As far as the DOT inspection you are getting are you getting that because it is required on all vehicles regardless of size or because the DOT people say you must have it due to the vehicle's GVWR? If it's because they say you are commercial ask them to show you the regulation that defines who must have the inspection. The Federal requirement does not apply to non-commerce/not for hire private use trucks. That does not mean you state doesn't have tougher standards saying you must have them. The only way to be sure is to ask for proof. If they say the FHWA (Federal HighWay Admin) requires it then they are wrong. But even though the feds don't require it there may be a state law that says you have to.


And as I said in my long winded response from the other day when you talk to anyone in DMV or DOT keep a log of when it was and the name of the person in question (along with the number you dialed), plus log what your question was and the answer you were given. This way if you end up getting a ticket you will have a line of recourse to maybe help get you out of it.

The best thing to do overall is to get a copy of the laws from your state that define what you need or don't need. Never take a no or a yes as an answer. Always ask for proof. If they refuse to back up any verbal answers they give you ask for their supervisor. But also remember this, if you get an agent that goes out of his or her way to find out what you need then make sure you find out who their boss is and tell that boss how the person did an excellent job.


One other thing to keep in mind is insurance. CMV's are required to have a much higher level of coverage. If all else fails get a comm shack to go in the back of the M54 and set it up as an RV. Problem solved. :-D


Ruppster
 
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Amer-team

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Centralia/WA
So why isn't a warm fuzzy 5 ton an RV?

And could someone tell me where the GVWR is listed for the 5 ton? I understand look in the manual or get a weight slip for the truck and I understand how much it could carry according to the manual, but commercial trucks have the GVWR weight listed on a tag on the vehicle.
 

Ruppster

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It's on the data plate on the dash. It should show two weight levels, one set for off road and the other for on highway. The scale officials will go by the higher level for highway.

Ruppster
 

Amer-team

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Centralia/WA
Thanks for the info. I see what you mean. It is listed as empty weight 19,8XX. So 10,000 more off road and 20,000 more on road.

On the registration they listed it as a classic vehicle, scale weight 19,8xx, and they put no GVW weight. I don't know why and I am certainly not going to start asking questions.
 

Ruppster

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I don't know why and I am certainly not going to start asking questions.
The problem is is that scale officials don't accept ignorance as an answer. :)

I don't know how WA does it so you really should check with someone out your way. Talk with the commercial law enforcement people. Normally when you register a heavy truck the weight listed on the registration (not the title) is the one you have to worry about. The weight on the registration is what the officials at the scales go by as far as how much you can haul. You can have a truck rated for 80,000 pounds but tag it for only 40,000 pounds. But in your case since you have antique tags they most likely don't list a weight on the registration as they are not weighted tags. Ask the scale people what the weight on your registration means and if you are allowed to exceed that weight since you have antique tags.

Ruppster
 
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mightymanx

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Location
WA
Here is my input.

Background Licenced CDA "A" in the state of Washington with all endorsements. I Have driven OTR in Washington. And I went to School to get my CDL "A"

I asked this very question to the experts. and the answer is

The Key to a CDL is the Commercial part.

If you are getting paid to drive or haul cargo that is comercial and the CDL and FMCSR rules are in effect.

If not driving/hauling for money then they do not.

No weigh stations licences axle load ratings etc.

There are 2 catches

Air brakes are a restriction on every licence in Washington to drive a vehicle with full air brakes ( NOT air over hydraulic) you need to take the test and get the restriction removed even if it a moped with air brakes it does not matter you need the restriction removed.

The other catch is doubles and triple trailers.

First triples are not allowed in the state end of story even though they give you the endorsement that is only to meet the federal requirements so you can drive in al 50 states.

There are RCW's that govern what type of vehicles can tow doubles and they are limited to comercial vehicles By the RCW. So then the comercial rules apply. Example If I owned a 2006 Freghtliner Century for my Personal use and I have a 53' trailer to haul my things I have "Private not for hire on the door" and if I have the Air brake restriction removed I get to drive it like a any other private vehicle no weigh stations etc. If I wanted to haul double 28's instead of the 53' I would need the endorsement as well as al the applicable CDL requirements for the weight of the vehicle and all FMCSR rules apply and I have to log hours of service stop at weigh stations the whole 9 yards.

Clear as mud?;)
 
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