Wait Light Stays on long time but M1009 will not crank

[Gloaf]

Gents:

We just had a cold snap in Atlanta last week, temps in the low teens. I went out to start my M1009 and the wait light stayed on uncharacteristically long, and the engine would not crank.

Now its nicely in the 50's or better but the same problem persists. Engine will not crank.

Checked both Batteries, they were squarely in the Green per the tester at 12.00 volts. They are about 4 years old though. Horn Works, lights work.

Checked the fuse box - no blown fuses.

I also reviewed threads on this forum to get after the issue.

I also reviewed TM9-2320-289-20 and did what I could with that, however I am no electrical genius and if instructed to "trace circuit" or "jump wire to ground" I'm not sure I know how to do that without blowing something up. Man's gotta know his limitations.

I do have the Doghead starter relay mod installed. It clicks smartly when I turn key to Run position. The usual lights go on in the dashboard when I advance the key to start it.

(I do not leave the key in the run position for more than a second or two after attempting to start it.)

A new glowplug controller is on order, figuring it would be a spare if that was not the solution. It has not arrived yet.

What is the next logical step besides the glowplug controller?

Thanks in advance!

Gloaf

 

[doghead]

When you say it does not crank, are you saying the starter does not engage and crank the engine over?

 

[Gloaf]

Wait light stays on too long - engine will not crank

When you say it does not crank, are you saying the starter does not engage and crank the engine over?

Yes!

 

[PETE BALLARD]

also check voltage between both batteries if your starter is 24 volt- there is a small jumper type cable that connects the batteries in series to provide 24 volts for the starter - sometimes you will loose starting voltage but everything else works if that cable gets loose or if the connections are dirty

 

[Barrman]

If the relay under the dash is clicking with the key in the start position. That means your ignition switch on the dash is working. Do the lights on the dash change when you try to start? That would confirm the ignition switch is working.

Next is the relay under the dash that you say is clicking. Pulling that off to verify power is going through is a good next step. You can even jump it with a screw driver or one of those hand held trigger things you can buy at an auto parts store. It is safer that way.

If all that is good. Then you are down to the junction blocks on the firewall not conducting power to the starter or something wrong with the starter itself. Following the -20 troubleshooting section really is the best way to fix this.

 

[cpf240]

When you say they measured 12v on the tester, was this a load tester ( and that the load was engaged during the reading ) or just a voltmeter?

 

[doghead]

I'd say it's time to lay under it with your meter.

See if you have 24v on the big cable on the starter, and see if you get voltage to the solenoid when in the crank position.

You might be suprised and find your starter hanging by the wires...

 

[Gloaf]

Update - no breakthrtough yet....

I'd say it's time to lay under it with your meter.

See if you have 24v on the big cable on the starter, and see if you get voltage to the solenoid when in the crank position.

You might be suprised and find your starter hanging by the wires...

Well, the weather warmed up considerably more and I did some basic things IAW the posters above, starting with basics first.

1) Retested the batteries under load, resulting in a reading of 11 volts. So I charged both of them up individually, they were both 62% charged when the charger went on, per the LED on the charger. They show 100% now.

2) Cleaned Battery Terminals and cables/connections, down to bare metal and reconnected.

3) Checked connections at the buss bar.

4) Pulled glow plug controlled and spritzed electronic contact cleaner on the contacts.

5) Was not able to do much with the starter and selonoid except visual inspection and tightness of wire connection. Nothing obvious there.

Result? No change. The wait light still stays on 3 to 5 times longer than it used to (when the engine started). There is an audible click from below the dashboard when I advance the key from Run to start position coming from the doghead relay upgrade. And when I try again to advance the key to start, the wait light goes on for the same long length of time (previously it seemed like it would flash off quicker if done repeatedly).

My last resort for DIY is a new glow plug control card, as I sense I am reaching the limit of my (in)competence...

Thoughts?

Gloaf

 

[doghead]

If your stater will not turn the motor over, as I'm understanding then you have a starter problem, not a glow plug issue.

The GP controller and the GP relay have nothing to do with the engine turning over.

 

[Socommfg]

Just because the relay "clacks" does NOT mean the contacts are making and allowing elec to pass. Try jumping across the relay load points.
I have found a pile of 'BAD" relays... This is a easy check..

ernie

 

[cpf240]

Have you done as DH suggested and measured the voltage at the starter? Both with the key off, and with the key in the crank position?

Replacing the glow plug controller is just guessing, and besides that, it has nothing to do with the starter engaging.

I think taking a meter and looking over the glow plug trouble shooting section of the -20 TM will help narrow down the issue with the glow plug system.

 

[pigpen60]

1. Check voltage to starter solenoid. Good voltage move on to 2
2. Try jumping the starter solenoid with a screwdriver. If you hear the drive kick in but it doesnt turn over see if your getting power out of the solenoid to the starter motor. If no pull cap and clean contacts and try again. If yes pull the starter you may have bad brushes.
3. If you dont hear the drive kick in you may have a bad solenoid or a bad ground.

 

[Gloaf]

Problem solved. The starter was bad, way bad, according to the rebuild shop which did an a-z rebuild job. Among other things oil had apparently leaked into the starter (a 27MT) and crudded everything up. Anyway it came out beautiful, got bolted on, and she fired right up.

Many thanks to all posters on these and other threads. One was for a recommendation for a starter rebuild place in Mabelton GA, just west of Atlanta that did a fantastic job in less than 24 hours turnaround time. They are very familiar with the CUCV starters and alternators (note to self for future reference).

Gloaf

 

[Chief_919]

Problem solved. The starter was bad, way bad, according to the rebuild shop which did an a-z rebuild job. Among other things oil had apparently leaked into the starter (a 27MT) and crudded everything up. Anyway it came out beautiful, got bolted on, and she fired right up.

Many thanks to all posters on these and other threads. One was for a recommendation for a starter rebuild place in Mabelton GA, just west of Atlanta that did a fantastic job in less than 24 hours turnaround time. They are very familiar with the CUCV starters and alternators (note to self for future reference).

Gloaf

Good old-school rebuilders are a dying breed. Wish we still had one locally.