was "deuce T/C ?s" nowRear Lockout and Axle Design

[Recovry4x4]

Now that makes sense! I failed to consider that we are working with a double splined shaft not an axle with a flanged end. Would 4140 be of similar strength to a standard treated axle? Since all rear axles are the same length and we can measure the distance that the front axle protrudes from the surface that the drive flange bolts to, we should be able to come up with the correct length right? I will be outside in the AM pulling a rear axle and front flange to get exact measurements. I'll also mic the spline diameter to confirm the numbers. Need any pics Robert? I know ultimately we will have to get a measurement for the inside of the spindle too!

 

[Desert Rat]

Robert & Kenny,
I wish you could post the pictures of your axle project as it is going along. What you gentlemen are talking about is exactly what I'm looking to do on my Deuce. I miss my differential interlock option that I had with my full semis on this truck. After reading what you are doing I'm very interested. Have you thought of a way to engage/disengage by air or is that too much work for this application? I can see major benefits in being able to isolate one drive axle for road use because I use 'Storm for mostly that purpose. Having this option would be awesome. Would there be any way to request a kit once all the details have been figured out? I'm lacking a shop to work in so that prohibits me from fabricating my own based upon what I'm reading here. Oh, Kenny, are we still a go with those two generators in the spring? I've got a couple of projects that will need them about the time those gensets get here. Thanks guys! This has been great reading!

 

[rdixiemiller]

I would like to request that the moderators re-name this topic "Rear axle locking hub conversions", or something similar. We have moved from one subject to another, and the second topic seems to have a lot of interest.
I am seriously considering building these axles in my basement shop. I will have to determine what they will cost to build (materials).
I need the following measurements:
1) The distancce from the front hub/flange surface to the end of the splines.
2) The distance from the rear axle flange/hub surface to the end of the splines.
3) The length of the splined end on each axle.
4) The I.D. of the rear spindle.
A broken axle with undamaged splines would be a great help.
I will check with my hot rodding friends about the correct steel for an axle. I seem to recall 4140 being the favorite.
I think I will be able to build these in my basement with my existing equipment. I would like to get one built and tested, Kenny comes to mind. He could test with a front drive flange to see what he could tear up. I would need a spare drive flange to despline and bush for free wheeling use. Next step would be to aquire a selectro hub for a trial.
I do not see any easy way to use an air control for this, you would end up with the same problems as the CTIS has. I am afraid it will involve getting out and locking in the hubs. At least you can put it on the left front rear hub, so you don't have far to walk!
After I figure what they will cost, I will post that. Depending on the interest that brings up, I will see about building some. With steel prices at their current exorbitant levels, I am afraid they will not be cheap.
Here is a good project for all you scroungers! Find an source for an inexpensive axle that has the correct splines, but is about 3" longer than a stock deuce rear axle. That way, I can cut off the flange and put splines on one end only. Regards
Robert Miller

 

[Desert Rat]

Robert,
I'll start looking here in Southern Indiana, Southern Illinios and Western Kentucky. What other axles would you advise me to look for? There's a Dana factory in Henderson, KY about 30 minutes from here that cranks out 50 trailers worth of semi axles per day (1500 axles) and huge ammounts of spare parts for these axles as well. Shall I give them a visit? There are also three deuce and five ton boneyards within a three hour drive from here as well but right now they are up to their eyeballs (almost literally) in snow. Access will be difficult until the snow receeds in the coming weeks. Let me know how I can help. I figured manually controling the hubs was the most practical route but I thought I'd ask anyway (still can dream can't we?).

 

[rdixiemiller]

We need to find an axle with the same spline dimensions as a deuce. The length needs to be about 3" longer, as best I can tell from the pics of a front hub installation. If they can be gotten cheaply (the cheaper the better), they would be a great place to start on a rear axle conversion. Just shortening an axle and re-splining one end would be a job most any axle shop should be able to do. I will get set up to do the deuce axle splines in my shop, because I want to.
If a suitable axle cannot be found that would be cheaper than the material cost, than a completely new axle would be in order.
As soon as I get some dimensions, I will start looking for cutters.
Regards
Robert Miller

 

[Recovry4x4]

Thats my fault! I had a rough night at work and didn't get out to the truck to do the measuring. I'll be on it in the AM fer sure.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Kenny
No sweat! I am covered up with family, in-laws, out-laws, etc. It will be several days before I am ready to try things out.
Regards
Robert

 

[Desert Rat]

Robert,
Yeah, tell me about the "out-laws"! We have a few here too!

 

[Recovry4x4]

OK, here goes and I only forgot to measure one thing.
1) Axle length from gasket surface to end of shaft is 39.375"
2) Spline dia is 1.632" 16 spline
3) Spindle ID is 1.88"
4) Front axle protrudes 2.318" from gasket surface.
As a side I noted that the end of the rear axle is dished outward. This gives an extra 1.875" working length. Close but not enough. The Selectos as pictured in Joe Young's web site have a spacer with them. I'm not sure if that distance can be reduced but I doubt it. My measurements are close but not the gospel. Robert, when you decide to try cutting axles, I'll buy a side gear or an extra front drive flange for you to have for more accurate measuring and to insure fit once the splines are cut. Upon looking at the spline profile, they appear to be square type cut. I need to pop the axle back out and measure the length of the splines. If my memory served me correct, the rear axles are tapered which all but prohibits resplining. Anything else Robert?

 

[rdixiemiller]

Kenny
The measurements are just fine. You said the rear axle was dished out 1.875", was that to the outside end of the axle? If it is to the inside, there might be enough meat in the flange to do the trick. I could chuck an axle up in the lathe and turn the flange off to the required diameter to re-spline. Take a look, that might be the trick. It would simplify things immensely if we could modify an existing rear axle to take a hub.
Regards
Robert

 

[Recovry4x4]

Sorry Robert, I measured to the outside! Thats all we have to work with. There must be some axles out there that would be of like dia and longer. I'm going to scour the big truck yard and find something. A call to Sam Winers in Akron OH might help too. I'll get to work.

 

[Desert Rat]

Robert,
I'm looking up here too.

 

[rdixiemiller]

If anyone can loan me an axle, preferably one they are not planning on using for a while, I will pay shipping both ways. I need one to dial in my mill and dividing head.
Regards
Robert

 

[Desert Rat]

Robert,
How about my truck? I'm sure we could barter on modifications. I'm even willing to talk about a nice genset (10kw).

 

[rdixiemiller]

Last time I went to Evansville Indiana, it took 6 hrs at 75-80 mph. A little far to drive a deuce! However, if you are in the neighborhood, and don't mind leaving it for a couple of weeks (My job at Honda keeps me busy 10 hrs+ a day) I will be glad to use your deuce as a lab rat!
Seriously, an axle is all I need, I will buy a front flange from Saturn to test fit everything. Of course a whole rear axle assembly would be a real help.....
Anyone in the Atlanta area got one they will loan out?
Regards
Robert Miller

 

[Desert Rat]

Robert,
My intention is to make her a road truck. I used to live in Snellville, GA. I'm very familiar with the trip and 'Storm has travelled much further than Carrollton without a hint of problems. She's definitely road worthy. If you want to split fuel costs I'll definitely include the 10kw genset. It will be about a 10 hour trip from here with 'Storm. I'd like to get the front hub cover splines machined to free wheel as well. I drove to Northeast PA to get the 109 box, a 5 day round trip. This is nothing new to me having been a trucker. And in all seriousness I really need as much help in getting 'Storm as fuel efficient as possible. I'm very serious about this.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Rat
I am going to get a front flange ordered from Saturn this week. Kenny has already given me the measurements for the axle length. I am going to get on some of the websites for the mudder crowds and see if I can scare up a damaged front axle end with intact splines. Kenny wants to be a tester, and so do you, so I can see myself making 2 axles to start with.
I will get some material prices tomorrow, maybe by the end of the week I will be able to let everyone know what it will cost per axle.
Now I need to find a dealer who wants to trade axles for a deuce.....
Regards to all
Robert Miller
Robert Miller

 

[Desert Rat]

Robert,
Let me know when you want 'Storm there and I'll begin to make arrangements.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Originally posted by rdixiemiller

Rat
I am going to get on some of the websites for the mudder crowds and see if I can scare up a damaged front axle end with intact splines. Regards to all
Robert Miller
Robert Miller

Hmm, now there's something I didn't think of. I need to pull the long side front axle for a measurement. If it's long enough and not tapered, it might be of use. Here in swamp buggy land, everybody narrows the front ends and uses short side axles on both sides so long axles shouldn't be hard to find. Actually might have another market for you Robert. As long as the axles aren't tapered, think you could cut and respline fronts? The guy that I worked with narrowing axles in the past had a cool little device that he used for centerdrilling the axle end he was resplining. He would chuck up the entire axle, turn down the section where the resplining was to happen then cut a deep groove at the end of that area. Remove axle, cut off the excess then slide this drill collar over the end and drill the end of the axle for use in the dead center.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Kenny
An extra long side axle would be perfect to work with! I normally set up a shaft in the lathe, indicate true, then turn a small section for my steady rest. Set up the rest, then you can pull the live center away and part the end off the shaft. You can then drill the center hole with a center drill in the tailstock chuck. See what you can scrounge, I am going to need an axle end to get the correct profile cutter ordered. I am waiting on prices for 4140 heat treated shafting as I type.
Regards
Robert Miller