Was there a final correct answer on the LM/FMTVs being EMP proof ????

[GeneralDisorder]

I agree. Have spares and carry tools.

Anyone scared of the engine computer really shouldn't be - they are ALL OVER ebay for anywhere from $100 to $500. They were used in many school bus applications and with a little work you too can learn to program them - or send it to me and I would be happy to program it for your engine information and maybe even a bit more power if you desire. I have my C7 programmed to the M-ATV 370 HP, 931 Ft/lb fuel map on a crate engine take-off ECU from 2017 and I keep my original as a backup.

Trans computer doesn't require programming - just install and go. Get one. You can buy them from many sources - my original had been replaced by the previous owner and the sticker indicated he bought it from Stewart and Stevenson so that's one option. I found a spare NOS off ebay.

Starter is an absolute must - can be had if you look around. Got mine for $275 shipped - brand new off a crate engine.

I don't carry an alternator. I do run the 4 battery setup and can charge them from solar if necessary (1600 watts on the roof). Even if you lose the alternator - those 4 AGM's can run the truck's basic electronics for the engine and trans computer, etc (kill all the lights) for a LOT of miles. Huge reserve capacity.

I also agree that something like the Carrington event is the most likely plausible scenario for disruption of electrical systems.

Keep the spare electronics in a Faraday bag.

 

[Third From Texas]

Best bet is a backpack full of gear and a dual-sport motorcycle with a carburetor.

Still the only bulletproof answer in the thread.

Store stuff elsewhere

Leave urban death trap

<putt-putt-putt>

Live happily ever after bouncing on cheerleaders...

 

[tgreening]

Recent - in terms of modern day... But you neglect to mention the Carrington event..... which was sufficient enough to set telegraph wire/poles on fire and destroy a lot of equipment... and that's just basic stuff - nowhere near the extent of longwires and sensitive electronics that we have today.

I do believe the last military estimate of a deployment of an EMP put fatalities at something like 50% within 6 months and 85% within 12 months. The amount of damage to infrastructure would cause a failure that wouldn't be restorable for 5-6 years at minimum.. with some estimates pushing a decade to 'get back to normal'. With our JIT (Just In Time) delivery system in place, stores would be instantly out of food, gas wouldn't be able to pumped for the vehicles that still are mobile, food wouldn't be made, etc. which would lead to mass starvation.

I work in the transportation industry and I've seen the chaos that happens from one small hiccup in the supply chain... One warehouse goes down and they can't accept loads. If they can't accept loads they're kept at terminal.. Terminal can't get them outbound which means there's no room for new containers to be unloaded... can't unload containers from vessel means other vessels are delayed berthing.... Last 2 years I've seen vessels 6-8 weeks behind schedule.... which might not sound bad, but what happens when your chocolate filled Advent calendars you order in August, to depart in September, to arrive at distribution points and in stores by November, doesn't even hit the warehouse until almost January? It happened last year. 40' shipping container full of advent calendars....

But I digress....

IMO, anything newer than an M939, ESPECIALLY vehicles like FMTV with electronically controlled transmissions, will be susceptible.

I figured one example is enough. The Carrington event, just like the one I mentioned in Canada, is not the type of EMP pulse that is going to burn out electronics. It takes out large electrical grids. Those with miles and miles and miles of wire, which act like a sponge to absorb the energy from the pulse. And they didnt have the protections that we have today either.

There are 3 types of EMP pulse. Types 1-3 creatively enough. Type 1 is I believe the one in this discussion, and Type 3 is what gets electronics. I may have those mixed up but that doesn't matter, you get the point. The one that takes out electronics only really works under very specific conditions. The right altitude, the right yield, the right weather. I believe I already mentioned that for one of these to have any real effect on YOUR specific stuff, it's probably already killed you anyway.

Most folks get their EMP knowledge from places that have vested interests in making it a "thing". They either wish to profit from so-called solutions, or they want to profit simply by getting you to subscribe and read their drivel. Just about anything that has some form of survive or prepare in its name or title is almost sure to tell you EMP is a REAL problem.

The science IS sound, it's just that the risk to the average Joe is relatively minimal. From nature its practically non-existent. From State actors like Korea or Iran the same. Minimal, at the moment. From terrorist organizations practically zero. In a WAR, with governments actually possessing the necessary tech along with the capability to deliver it, you are likely to have far more pressing problems than a car that won't start or TV that won't turn on.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I figured one example is enough. The Carrington event, just like the one I mentioned in Canada, is not the type of EMP pulse that is going to burn out electronics. It takes out large electrical grids. Those with miles and miles and miles of wire, which act like a sponge to absorb the energy from the pulse. And they didnt have the protections that we have today either.

There are 3 types of EMP pulse. Types 1-3 creatively enough. Type 1 is I believe the one in this discussion, and Type 3 is what gets electronics. I may have those mixed up but that doesn't matter, you get the point. The one that takes out electronics only really works under very specific conditions. The right altitude, the right yield, the right weather. I believe I already mentioned that for one of these to have any real effect on YOUR specific stuff, it's probably already killed you anyway.

Most folks get their EMP knowledge from places that have vested interests in making it a "thing". They either wish to profit from so-called solutions, or they want to profit simply by getting you to subscribe and read their drivel. Just about anything that has some form of survive or prepare in its name or title is almost sure to tell you EMP is a REAL problem.

The science IS sound, it's just that the risk to the average Joe is relatively minimal. From nature its practically non-existent. From State actors like Korea or Iran the same. Minimal, at the moment. From terrorist organizations practically zero. In a WAR, with governments actually possessing the necessary tech along with the capability to deliver it, you are likely to have far more pressing problems than a car that won't start or TV that won't turn on.

EMP can be an issue, but so can anything.. I used to build HERF devices when I was younger. I learned a lot. Most electronic devices I was able to zap, even microcontrolled, came back after turning it off and resetting power on the test subject. Higher amplitude emissions did permanently damage some devices. Yes, it depends on the wavelength, and a million other variables. My point is, doesn't really matter since you should have spare parts on hand anyway.

 

[tgreening]

EMP can be an issue, but so can anything.. I used to build HERF devices when I was younger. I learned a lot. Most electronic devices I was able to zap, even microcontrolled, came back after turning it off and resetting power on the test subject. Higher amplitude emissions did permanently damage some devices. Yes, it depends on the wavelength, and a million other variables. My point is, doesn't really matter since you should have spare parts on hand anyway.

I'm down with the spares, though on this particular ride I haven't gotten to that point yet. I'm still at the point of replacing, if I can just get the TIME these days.

 

[Third From Texas]

.... if I can just get the TIME these days.

I say you have about 2 two years.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Read the EMP commission reports from 2002 and 2011. the 2002 report (published in 03 or 04) tested over 300 different vehicles (cars, trucks, tractors, etc) in a simulator. Engine was running and all electronics were on. in the 02 tests, 60 percent suffered NO damage, 30 percent the engines shut off, but would restart immediately, 7 percent had other issues, mainly fuses blowing that once replaced would also start. Only 3 percent would need components replaced (read computers and other circuit boards) to make them operable. The problem for us is that they would NOT release a list of what vehicles were tested! I've not read the later report.

As was stated earlier the main effect is is on wires that go in the same direction (esp away from the center of the device) for any length. EMP through the air is traveling at the speed of light, through wires, it's slower. In the Carrington Event, pulses arrived from overhead, lets say over St. Louis, and started spreading out over the telegraph wires. At point zero there is 100 MEv in the wire and it runs down the wire at 50 percent the speed of light, but the point is also sending out energy towards the further parts of the wire (falling off as the square of the distance from the original point, but in the C E was 93 million miles away, thus almost no fall off). For an EMP device the falloff of energy will be much greater, but it's still considerable. In the C E, the highest voltage starts running down the wires away from the source, but since the source was large it has already energized the wire at more distant points. So we will assume 10 miles away the C E only put 80 MEv into the wire, and at 20 miles away it was only 60 MEv. But we have the 100 MEv rushing down the wire towards them, so when it gets to the 10 mile mark it becomes 180 MEv and at 20 miles it has grown to 240 MEv. All that voltage creates heat with the more voltage, the more heat, wires melt and set other things on fire. Scale this back to a tractor-trailer at a total length of 80 feet. The wiring going to the back lights will not get enough differential voltage between the air and the wire to make any real difference or rise in the energy. This is all a gross simplification of what happens, but I'm not writing a book.

 

[thomaspc]

I remember @coachgeo had looked into it but was there a final answer to or if which trucks and which generation were EMP proof when mfg ?

Just got mine, and it is EMP proof. Well, I told my wife the older ones were, and that's part of the reason she let me buy it, so you guys are gonna have to play along.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Just got mine, and it is EMP proof. Well, I told my wife the older ones were, and that's part of the reason she let me buy it, so you guys are gonna have to play along.

It's essentially irrelevant unless it occurs at 3am (and even then...). If it's strong enough to affect vehicles then the roads will be absolutely clogged with dead vehicles and paranoid/desperate/hostile people. Getting an FMTV through that mess is absolutely not happening.

As I have said - if you aren't ALREADY way off grid ("bugged out") - the FMTV isn't going to help you. Best bet is to stick to back roads (have paper maps) with a dual-sport motorcycle that has zero electronics and all the gear on your back. FMTV's are far too large and realistically an EMP powerful enough to take out vehicles is going to be quite the event. If you think an FMTV is going to save you then you are sadly mistaken.

"Older ones" are only more vulnerable to their lower MTBF. Newer one's are just as EMP proof and considerably more reliable in general.

 

[tgreening]

It's essentially irrelevant unless it occurs at 3am (and even then...). If it's strong enough to affect vehicles then the roads will be absolutely clogged with dead vehicles and paranoid/desperate/hostile people. Getting an FMTV through that mess is absolutely not happening.

As I have said - if you aren't ALREADY way off grid ("bugged out") - the FMTV isn't going to help you. Best bet is to stick to back roads (have paper maps) with a dual-sport motorcycle that has zero electronics and all the gear on your back. FMTV's are far too large and realistically an EMP powerful enough to take out vehicles is going to be quite the event. If you think an FMTV is going to save you then you are sadly mistaken.

"Older ones" are only more vulnerable to their lower MTBF. Newer one's are just as EMP proof and considerably more reliable in general.

If it’s strong enough to affect vehicles in any serious way it’ll likely kill YOU outright.

 

[Guruman]

If it’s strong enough to affect vehicles in any serious way it’ll likely kill YOU outright.

People are not affected much by EM. People can take a lot more than it would take to fry your typical computer or coil, or starter winding, or alternator, or the coils in every relay. The real threat in my mind would be food security. Every fridge and freezer would shut off instantly. And after a few days the only viable food would be what's shelf stable. then the threat becomes the hoards of the hungry and starving.

I have a typical metal pole building and I finished the inside with the same metal as the exterior skin, and grounded the inside and outside shells separately in the hope that anything parked inside might have a chance. Like a faraday cage within a faraday cage.

 

[chucky]

If it’s strong enough to affect vehicles in any serious way it’ll likely kill YOU outright.

OHHHHHHHH NOOOO ! If your a member of Steel Soldiers you will be just fine because ! Its a proven fact that all 103,968 members are already on board and comfortably seated on the KRAY KRAY train to DEMENTIAVILLE so sit back and enjoy the RIDE !

 

[Third From Texas]

OHHHHHHHH NOOOO ! If your a member of Steel Soldiers you will be just fine because ! Its a proven fact that all 103,968 members are already on board and comfortably seated on the KRAY KRAY train to DEMENTIAVILLE so sit back and enjoy the RIDE !

And the occasional shaped tin-lead alloy head covering ...

 

[chucky]

And the occasional molded tin-lead alloy head covering ...

With positive and negative battery lugs on both sides of the helmet for your daily 220 volt jump start into your search for all things green !

 

[tgreening]

People are not affected much by EM. People can take a lot more than it would take to fry your typical computer or coil, or starter winding, or alternator, or the coils in every relay. The real threat in my mind would be food security. Every fridge and freezer would shut off instantly. And after a few days the only viable food would be what's shelf stable. then the threat becomes the hoards of the hungry and starving.

I have a typical metal pole building and I finished the inside with the same metal as the exterior skin, and grounded the inside and outside shells separately in the hope that anything parked inside might have a chance. Like a faraday cage within a faraday cage.

Its not the EMP that will get you, it’s the significant nuclear blast needed to generate an EMP strong enough to actually kill a vehicle. If it’s close enough and big enough to kill your vehicle, it’s going to kill you in it.

 

[MarkM]

Its not the EMP that will get you, it’s the significant nuclear blast needed to generate an EMP strong enough to actually kill a vehicle. If it’s close enough and big enough to kill your vehicle, it’s going to kill you in it.

But but won't it also give us super powers?

 

[TomTime]

Its not the EMP that will get you, it’s the significant nuclear blast needed to generate an EMP strong enough to actually kill a vehicle. If it’s close enough and big enough to kill your vehicle, it’s going to kill you in it.

Well, a strong enough solar flare can cause an EMP but not kill life.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

With positive and negative battery lugs on both sides of the helmet for your daily 220 volt jump start into your search for all things green !

It's in the TM.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Its not the EMP that will get you, it’s the significant nuclear blast needed to generate an EMP strong enough to actually kill a vehicle. If it’s close enough and big enough to kill your vehicle, it’s going to kill you in it.

Air burst nukes could easily generate an EMP that could impact large swaths of the country. It wouldn't need to be a ground effect detonation.

There are published articles on effects from test of things like STARFISH PRIME...

'One of our earliest experiences with HEMP dates back to the resumption of atmospheric nuclear testing in 1962 following a three year testing moratorium. Starfish Prime, a 1.4 megaton device, was detonated at an altitude of 400 kilometers over Johnston Island. Failures of electronic systems resulted in Hawaii, 1,300 kilometers away from the detonation. Street lights and fuzes failed on Oahu and telephone service was disrupted on the island of Ki. Subsequent tests with lower yield devices [410 kt Kingfish at 95 km altitude, 410 kt Bluegill at 48 km altitude, and 7 kt Checkmate at 147 km] produced electronic upsets on an instrumentation aircraft [presumably the KC-135 that filmed the tests from above the clouds?] that was approximately 300 kilometers away from the detonations.

 

[Third From Texas]

But but won't it also give us super powers?

Like being able to hold up an MTV cab with your skull?

I've heard of such powers !