Washington members with M818s - title question

[US6x4]

In one of the CDL threads I read that Washington state may automatically require you to have a CDL if your title says "tractor" on it. Do any M818 owners actually have that verbiage on their Washington state title?

A seller in PA says that his title does not say "tractor" but simply says "antique vehicle". If I were to buy one I would register it as a collector vehicle (25+ yrs old) in WA.

 

[162tcat]

Slippery slope. If you buy and register as a collector type vehicle you're probably fine as is but if you ever get into any sort of accident, at fault or otherwise someone's insurance is likely to go after you. Safe bet is get a CDL if you're going to own a 5 ton or just buy a deuce. You'll probably get plenty of people who come on here and say you don't need that but the reality is the liability is all yours. I doubt the people who say you don't need a CDL are going to help pay your legal bills if something goes wrong. 


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[162tcat]

And just to add to that, if you're going to use it to haul or tow anything you cannot use the collector vehicle plates, that is illegal. If you want to haul and tow with it, register as "farm exempt" in Washington. another side benefit of farm exempt is you do not have to buy tabs every year. The only downside is you have to get a trip permit if you're going more than 15 miles from the registered address. That's easy for me, I just keep 2 trip permits in the glove box on the off chance that happens.


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[US6x4]

I imagine the liability would still be there even with a CDL. Does a CDL work like a get out of jail free card? I doubt it, but it may reduce liability somewhat. I think I would register a 5 ton as a collector vehicle and then get trip permits if I wanted to do actual "non-collector" type stuff with it. I don't necessarily want a tractor but a shorter wheel base cargo truck sounds like fun and it seems that M818s come with a winch more often than the M813s.

 

[162tcat]

I imagine the liability would still be there even with a CDL. Does a CDL work like a get out of jail free card? I doubt it, but it may reduce liability somewhat. I think I would register a 5 ton as a collector vehicle and then get trip permits if I wanted to do actual "non-collector" type stuff with it. I don't necessarily want a tractor but a shorter wheel base cargo truck sounds like fun and it seems that M818s come with a winch more often than the M813s.

Well if it's not a "get out of jail free card" why get a drivers license at all? Think of all the money you save by not having to renew it.
The way the State patrol and more importantly the insurance and any lawyers involved would see it is you do not have the proper training to drive a vehicle of that size and equipped with an air system. You can always go straight to the source and ask the State patrol. If they say you don't need one, have them put it in writing. Either way, good luck.


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[rhurey]

This may be a contentious topic.

If you've got a month to take off work and a few extra thousand dollars laying around, get a CDL.
(WA requires 160 hours in classroom training for a class A. No option avoid, unless your employer has an approved training program, you're just getting out of the military, or have a CDL already.)

Dig through the PNW thread, someone has had a lawyer contact WSP about this and gotten an answer. I've called WSP and gotten the same answer. That answer has been no CDL is needed if it's a private vehicle you're using on your own. Call yourself, the motor carrier guys.

Be sure to be honest with your insurance about having a CDL.

Now, having said all that. You do need to know how to drive something that size if you haven't before. It's not something you can just start up and tool around in without maintenance and a constant vigilance for safety. There will be no small accidents. I have no idea if you know how to drive a vehicle that was 5-6x what the average car does. Empty.

Someone's insurance will go after you no matter what. They or their lawyer may smell blood because you've got a big green toy and that must mean you're loaded. I'm not going to predict how liability winds up for some hypothetical accident, beyond saying the most important part, to me, would be making sure my insurance had my back through the process.

There will be two parts to the accident followup, civil with the other party, and criminal with the state. Having required licenses et al. helps avoid the 2nd.

 

[US6x4]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've looked through about half of the 210+ pages of the PNW thread and haven't come across the lawyer's findings yet, but I sure would look to find that part. Any thoughts on finding it more quickly?

I have driven semi's with 40' trailers hauling hay for our family farm so a 5 ton would't be a complete shock but if I ever get one I will play with it for a while out on the farm to get comfortable with it before I ever go near traffic or thru the McDonald's drive thru...haha

 

[Nomadic]

In WA, it won't matter if you have a CDL or not. That gov is so corrupt it doesn't matter what you have. Its more about who you are.

 

[DiverDarrell]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=308-100-010 gvwr over 26001 needs a Cdl unless it has farm tags.

 

[DiverDarrell]

A work around is to convert it and license it as an RV. Can’t be a slide in either, has to be permanently altered with the rv requirements to be an RV.

 

[US6x4]

I've read the RCWs which say a CDL is needed for commercial vehicles over 26001 gvwr. The RCW 46.25.010 paragraph 6 defines a commercial vehicle as "a motor vehicle used in commerce to transport passengers or property..." so by that definition any use I would have for one would not be commercial. Personal use is different.

Any way - back to my original question; Do M818 titles have the word tractor on them?

 

[rhurey]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=308-100-010 gvwr over 26001 needs a Cdl unless it has farm tags.

WAC: filed 9/1/00, effective 10/2/00

RCW Used for authority of the WAC: Modified 2005:
"Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle ((designed)) or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle:"...
((deletion)) addition

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienn...n Laws/Senate/6549.SL.pdf?cite=2006 c 50 § 1;

DOL needs to update their WAC, the RCW they get their authority from has changed.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?77974-PNW-Info-Thread!&p=1566392&viewfull=1#post1566392

 

[DiverDarrell]

[FONT=&quot][h=3]applies to all vehicles. If above 26001 and not exempted (rv, farm, military, police, fire) it requires a Cdl.

As as far as tractor having to be on the title, I would try to title it as a truck. My M1078 is titled as a commercial, not for commercial use truck. This is also how I am not required to have DOT numbers as well. I titled my truck with the sf-97 from the govt and went to my local dol to register it. They needed scale weight and what weight I wanted to register it too. Best bet is to go to a small dol office with a big smile, be polite and ask questions to see if it has to be there. As long as the title is not branded most corrections are easy to make, but that big fifth wheel is hard to explain how it’s not a tractor unit. One might convince a dol cleark that your not going to pull freight with it, and they could add the comment “not to pull trailers in excess of 10000 gvwr” to justify calling it a truck. That comment was on my first registration, but was easily removed for another $10 registration fee for the update. I hope this helps and I’m very interested in the outcome as I would like to add a M1088 to my fleet some day.




WAC 308-100-010[/h]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Vehicles requiring a commercial driver's license for their operation.[/h]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The director of the department of licensing hereby finds that the following vehicles require special operating skills by the drivers of those vehicles:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](1) Single vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) Any combination of vehicles where:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](a) The vehicle being driven has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more; or[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](b) The vehicle being towed has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more and the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of the vehicles is 26,001 pounds or more;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) Vehicles designed to transport sixteen or more passengers, including the driver;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](4) Vehicles used in the transportation of hazardous materials that requires the vehicle to be identified with a placard under 49 C.F.R., part 172, subpart F; and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](5) All public school buses, regardless of capacity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All persons driving such vehicles, other than those exempt under RCW 46.25.050, must have a commercial driver's license with the proper classification(s) and endorsements.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As used in this section, "gross vehicle weight rating" has the meaning defined by RCW 46.25.010(12).[/FONT]

 

[DiverDarrell]

Also had to get commercial vehicle insurance due to scale weight above 12000#. Could not find a standard auto policy to cover it. Even after arguing it was for non commercial use. Wish you the best of luck, hopefully some more green iron is in your future, or perhaps tan.

 

[US6x4]

WAC: filed 9/1/00, effective 10/2/00

RCW Used for authority of the WAC: Modified 2005:
"Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle ((designed)) or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle:"...
((deletion)) addition

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienn...n Laws/Senate/6549.SL.pdf?cite=2006 c 50 § 1;

DOL needs to update their WAC, the RCW they get their authority from has changed.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?77974-PNW-Info-Thread!&p=1566392&viewfull=1#post1566392

rhurey, thank you for those links - very helpful indeed!