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We need a unified voice

emmado22

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I'd join forces with the MVPA. They have a known name, a big membership, some $$, and some clout. SS has little of those 4 things in the hobby when looking at the big picture overall.. I also agree with what VTDeucedriver said. With all the dumb posts on here about illegal/stupid/I got lucky recoveries, all you need is one anti MV person to find one on here (not too hard to do) and your sunk before you left out of the gate...
 
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saddamsnightmare

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Abilene, Texas
April 12th, 2012.


Gents:


Seems like some of our moderators feel that we aren't up to speaking out for ourselves and protecting our interests. Kinda reminds me of Czechoslovakia being well cared for by Britain in 1938. The man's entitled to his opinion, wrong or right! We do need to put our heads togather and actually begin to mobilize before the states strip us of our rights to OUR property via the action of "Unreimbursed legislative or administrative takings". Wisconsin managed that one, and from what I hear on here, Iowa and Maryland are likely the next candidates to take some property without reimbursing the owners.... If you can't use it legally on the road, it's a useless machine. IMHOP:???:! (Note below, the Cat got out of the bag)! I'll still bet we own more $$$ of equipment then the MVPA members put togather, so we have MUCH more to lose if you think about it!
 
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TIGERFANS2

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Perusing the members list there are ~ 34,000 user names on SS, I think the current number of members in the MVPA is 6-7000.

I'm an MVPA member and I do NOT own an MB, GPW, etc.

So what's everyone else's excuse?

A co-worker years ago told me the reason he wouldn't join the NRA was that one year they didn't send him his free hat when he signed up. I offered him one of mine but he still wouldn't join.:-|
 

emmado22

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There is a big difference between 34000 user names and active members... A vast majority of "members" here have zero posts...

Im in the MVPA, and heck, I was even pictured in an article!
 
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73m819

Rock = older than dirt , GA. MAFIA , Dirty
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All of this is great but we ALL need to be on our toes for each other. PB was right in stating that we need to watch ourselfes. In the last 3 yrs on this site ive seen some crazy pics from some of its members and it has literally made me nervious for our hobby. I have ALOT of time and $$$$ invested in it and it will take only ONE guy to not know and attempt to recover his 900 series with his F-250 with a home made towbar and have it come off and kill a family of 4 to ruin it for all of us!!!!
Not counting a GO FASTER running over grand ma, drive a gl truck that sat for 2 years 800/1000 miles home, so thay were LUCKY, luck runs out, ECT, ECT, ECT
 

m1010plowboy

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Unified voice

Found an MVPA Affiliates Link MVPA Affilates Links Not sure if this is current but it sure is powerful and comforting.

It is impressive to see what has been done since 1976 considering the hurdles they have faced. Strength in numbers may never be 'unified' however maybe the voices can become a little more harmonic. The 'goal line' is the same for everyone, even if we each have a different way of getting there.

I joined the MVPA because of the incredible, high quality, dedicated people I met. They welcomed me in.......support and tolerate my learning curve.

Maybe it's time for a dedicated day to "Support Your Local Legislators" HMV / Historical Vehicle Rally. A few thousand units spread out on the door-step of every Supporting Government Body, Internationally.
 

Bob H

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.............................................

Im in the MVPA, and heck, I was even pictured in an article!
Me to!, But it was a group shot.
2 or 3 of my trucks were also in it, with my name in the caption.

No need to reinvent the wheel, just join the MVPA and become active in it.

It is no longer your fathers MVPA, it is ours!
 

ARYankee

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I agree with a lot of what has been stated. We need to take action and get any issues taken care of before they come to light. Nip it in the butt. We definitely need to involve as many folks as possible, especially the MVPA. Complaining about them isn't going to do us any good. I know I complain about our chapter but like what has been stated before speak up and attempt to make some changes.

Now what we are currently doing with our legislation that we are putting together in Arkansas is staying away from the parade/special event use box. I think that will be the key with most states' efforts because once you go there and state that you mainly use it for that, then you are setting limits. Currently our state doesn't have any major issues but we have a few nuisance inconsistencies that we intend to iron out along with looking toward the future betterment of our laws for the good of the hobby.
 

col.halftrack

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Kansas
What a great thread indeed! I have been recently elected to the MVPA BoD and have many that post here on the SS site to thank for that.
After reading through this thread I find very little to disagree with. Perhaps I do not think of myself as an old fogie:). For the most part though I am heartily encouraged by the posts.
I was first involved in legislative issues when Kansas DMV decided to rescind registration to ALL MVs regardless of class or year of manufacture. As I have said before the best thing the MV owners in Kansas did was stick together. If interested you can still read the thread on G503 that relates much of the events. We won a total victory forcing the DMV to get back to their daily duties and get off our backs.:beer:
I have only been to one directors meeting and yes we face many challenges. Most of those would fade away if we as an organization could increase our membership. So, instead of "running around like chickens..." we could focus on the details; like how best to help state affiliates monitor, oppose, and create amendments to current statute that would insure we have the same privileges on the highways as other contemporary vehicles.
Let's work together to create a new MVPA. A 21st century organization that encourages the continued use, enjoyment, and yes preservation of ALL military vehicles. Preservation to me means getting her dirty and having a safe good time, to others maybe not. Let's not be stupid and become separated by the fine hairs.
I am excited to be on the BoD. You guys have my vote! Please help to grow the MVPA membership. I believe we could double the membership which will allow us to have a greater presence at any table whether legislative or historical.
Respectfully,
Kevin Lockwood
MVPA #15647
 

Flyingvan911

Well-known member
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Kansas City, MO
The FMVSS is an attack on all old vehicles, we are just the most obvious target. People see an old Corvette and say, "That is propably ok and it's cool." So they have a slight advantage. People see an old army truck and the eyebrows go up.

I agree, the first, best option is to get with the MVPA since they are already established. MV bans/registration problems will affect alot of their membership I'd bet.
 

vtdeucedriver

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Vermont
I agree with a lot of what has been stated. We need to take action and get any issues taken care of before they come to light. Nip it in the butt. We definitely need to involve as many folks as possible, especially the MVPA. Complaining about them isn't going to do us any good. I know I complain about our chapter but like what has been stated before speak up and attempt to make some changes.

Now what we are currently doing with our legislation that we are putting together in Arkansas is staying away from the parade/special event use box. I think that will be the key with most states' efforts because once you go there and state that you mainly use it for that, then you are setting limits. Currently our state doesn't have any major issues but we have a few nuisance inconsistencies that we intend to iron out along with looking toward the future betterment of our laws for the good of the hobby.
I will admit that I was a MVPA member back when I got started and after my 1st year and into the 2nd, the "Motor Pool" was mostly contained with WW2 Jeeps, I dropped my membership for a couple yrs. (think 6 actually). After some Stupid "BILL" attempts within the Warbird Community and Aviation with the ownership of former military aircraft (Hense P-51's and B-17's and yes even trainers that never had weapons) was under attack that did I realise the MVPA was much like Warbirds of America and AOPA (Aircraft Owners & Pilots Assn) by looking our for our interests, so I did rejoin the MVPA!!!

Only a couple of yrs later, a bonus was added with the hiring of D. Doyle as editor of the SUPPLY LINE and his life of being a "M-Series guy" was the icinig on the cake. It was a great day when I got a e-mail from him that I would LOVE the first issue with him behind the wheel and I grinned from ear to ear as the magazine came out of the box with a beautiful M-123 from the 62nd Engineers towing a Rome Plow was on the cover :)

Join the MVPA!!!!
If anyone wants more info, PM ME!!! I have a bunch of Cards for Membership applications that I can send you and a FREE COPY of the Motor Pool and SupplyLine!!!!!!
 

kaziboku

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Great discussion. I would think "Our" group should include all collectors of any vehicles, old cars, etc. not just MV's. We secured some freedom in Wisconsin with the help of all collectors and drivers of 'uncommon' vehicles. We gathered by email.
Perhaps mvpa could sponsor such an activity?

I copied this from Tom Zat's Alpha Heaven web site:

April 2, 2012
UPDATE
Thank You for Your Terrific Efforts.
We're very pleased to announce some Big Progress. Nothing Good Is Easy.
The changes we are making take time, but WE ARE GETTING THERE!!
Our efforts continue. Thanks for your continued support.
ANNOUNCING BIG GAINS FOR OWNERS OF FORMER MILITARY VEHICLES
In discussions with DOT, Tom has secured the following agreements.
Effective Immediately: ANY former U.S. military vehicle under 10,000 GVW may register for regular registration regardless if there is a certification label.
Effective Date (approx 7/1): All Pre-1970 former military vehicles (US and foreign) may register for regular registration; (Auto, Truck, Farm, Collector, Hobbyist, etc.)
Confirmation of problem: 1970 & newer former military vehicles which lack a certification label may still be denied registration under 341.10(6), a problem which can only be corrected through legislation. (see the next item)
BIG GAINS FOR ALL VEHICLE OWNERS
Going Forward: DOT has acknowledged the need to draft legislation to amend 341.10(6). The way it's written now, any vehicle without a certification label can be denied registration, including every pre-'70 vehicle. It will be changed, to acknowledge the federal exemption for vehicles older than 25 years. We expect to draft legislation this year, and will push for passage next year. STAY TUNED.
ANNOUNCING BIG GAINS FOR OWNERS OF COLLECTOR VEHICLES
(NOT HOBBYIST)
Note: These changes will not effect HOBBYIST registration *.
As you are aware, Collector registration has recently been denied over trivial items such as radios or hubcaps. When we previously asked your opinion about such changes, the response was overwhelmingly in favor of allowing minor modifications to Collector vehicles while still staying true to the spirit of an original or historic vehicle.
In discussions with DOT, Tom has secured the following agreements.
Effective Immediately: DMV will apply as much leniency as possible in deciding which vehicles qualify for Collector registration.
Going Forward: DOT wants a specific list of changes which cannot be considered when deciding originality, and will help draft and introduce legislation for next year.
You Can Help, by submitting your ideas for this list to us. (These are things that you think DMV should overlook on a Collector vehicle application.)
Here are some of our ideas: Wheels/Tires, Color, Radio/Sound System, Safety Upgrades (ie. safety glass windows, dual circuit brakes, radial tires), original options...
We plan to set up a webpage where you can register for or against the items. We'll share the results with you and the DOT.
* Please Note - HOBBYIST: Some owners of Hobbyist vehicles opposed the original bill, stating that Hobbyist owners did not wish those laws to change. In response, we are not proposing any changes to Hobbyist registration laws. Until and unless Hobbyist owners raise concerns and problems which they wish this group to address, we will not go there.
THE FUTURE OF THIS E-MAIL GROUP
This Email goes out to owners, clubs, businesses, farmers, organizations, etc. who share a common interest in preserving old vehicles of all sorts. By forming this email group, and by everybody acting united, we have succeeding in getting this bill passed. In doing this, we have created enough political power to support each others' causes.
It was critical to get at least a part of the bill passed because that validates the power of this group. In order to do that, the bill was stripped down to just the repeal of the military vehicle ban and it ended up directly benefiting only a small segment of our group: owners of former military vehicles. Those owners understand that others have contributed to their gain, and you can be sure they are anxious to repay that effort. But the bill did much more than that, because it proved to DOT and to Legislators that we are a powerful group. Now we have their attention and we are working on getting the rest of our concerns dealt with.
Our political strength comes from all of us working together.
TO DO
Remember Who Helped Us! Sen. Glenn Grothman and Assy. Rep. Evan Wynn were responsible for this Bill getting introduced and they voted for it! They deserve your THANKS, and please remember them when it comes time to place your vote. Rep. Wynn is up for re-election soon, and he's a terrific guy. Pass the word.
If you haven't already done so, contact your Legislators and THANK THEM for their support.
The votes were unanimous in both houses. Everybody came through for us. Locate and E-Mail your Legislators HERE.
Pass the word. Forward this E-Mail to others.
Sign-Up for E-Mails. Reply to me at undy@mhtc.net and I'll add you. Likewise, if you want to be off the list, just let me know.
WE ARE WINNING
We have widespread support in the Legislature.
The changes you are helping to make will protect our vehicles and
maintain the hobby for future generations.
To get added to our existing email notification system, please send an email to the following address: MVRegistrationRights@yahoo.com
If you are already on the list, you do not need to re-enter.
 

ARYankee

Well-known member
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Location
Benton, AR
Join the MVPA!!!!
If anyone wants more info, PM ME!!! I have a bunch of Cards for Membership applications that I can send you and a FREE COPY of the Motor Pool and SupplyLine!!!!!!

I am a current member of the national MVPA but not a state chapter member, not until there are some leadership changes. I have attempted to include them (chapter leadership) in our legislative proposals and will continue to communicate with them about it but I have yet to get a response. That is what disappoints me the most about the state chapter. We have issues and they need to be addressed but they wouldn't step up. I have met several MV folks in the state and also some of the members of my club that won't join the national MVPA because of our state chapter's representation.

I look forward to speaking with Kevin and others on working to put something together to help each other out with MV legislative issues.
 

ARYankee

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Location
Benton, AR
I was wandering through the MVPA site and found a pdf file with a listing of committees. Turns out that there is a Govt/Legislative type committee. I've attached it to this reply. Maybe Kevin can give us some info on who is on this committee and what is happening. I never knew there was one until now.
 

Attachments

col.halftrack

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Kansas
I believe the legislative committee dates to the Wisconsin affair. I was told then that I was to be placed on it as a general member. At the last board meeting following the election of officers the new President asked me to serve with several others on this committee.
I will gladly take alot of good info from the SS threads to heart. The legislative battle is largely a state issue as papabear said earlier in the thread. That does not mean however that the MVPA cannot come up with a mission statement and a aggressive response package to assist state affiliates with issues. As a junior board member I have very little old information on what has been tried or not. I can assure MV owners that this is a passionate issue for me.
One message we kept hitting in Kansas was MVs have shared the roads for seventy plus years and done so safely, so whats the big deal:? Many legislators shared our confusion and soon even they were asking the DMV director "whats the big deal?"
If we hang together and work to grow the MVPA membership only good things will come from that. All the directors emails and phone numbers are published. It is their duty to represent you in deciding the focus and direction the organization takes. We will not agree all the time but the first step is from the membership to grow and spell out what there MVPA should be about.
Recent cooperative efforts are encouraging. The MVPA has reached out to the HVA Historic Vehicle Assoc. part of the Hagerty group, as well as the ATHS Antique Truck Historical Soc. all good. Recent talks with Steel Soldiers leadership indicates a recognition that both parties need each other.
Kevin L.
 

73m819

Rock = older than dirt , GA. MAFIA , Dirty
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I think that the way the economy is, money is very short for a LOT of people, where thay need to stretch what thay have about to the breaking point, there is nothing left for extras, including joining the MVPA, just look at some of the responses when SS put in the premium membership ($15). SO joining the MVPA is NOT a option for some, hence saying "JOIN the MVPA to make things better" falls on a lot of deaf ears.

Another thing is a lot of MVers WERE members of the MVPA, saw a lot of things that turned them off, from only WW2 stuff, only jeep stuff, a do nothing BoD that was the old boys club that spent there time running for the BoD, ect., ect. again "JOIN the MVPA to make things better" falls on deaf ears till thay SEE a BIG change that will bring them back to the MVPA fold. In this case ACTIONS speak a lot louder then words and promises
 

Irv

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I'd like to chime in, here. I see it like this:
1. We have a problem, that being potential rules/laws that do nothing and harm our hobby.
2. To defend against this, we need an organization with clout. MVPA is vastly far too small to have clout now, or even if it doubles in size. It's unlikely to double.
3. Our concerns are similar to any antique car, and there are several car associations that are far bigger than MVPA. ACCA or something like that has 60,000 members. That's 6 to 10 times bigger than MVPA.
4. I would like to see MVPA and SS both merge somehow with the bigger antique car organizations so that we can develop a truely formidable defense in the eyes of legislators.

There is plenty of room to have MVPA do what they do for parades and shows, but for legislative defense, we need to ally with other antique car groups so that we're big enough and scary enough to make legislators think twice about proposing useless feel-good legislation.

Irv
 
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