Welding on a 3053A?

[Scuffy]

Howdy guys! I'm back with yet another question about the 3053A transmission. Up until this point I've had it bolted up to my Detroit (which is bolted to the frame with mounts) and for extra support, whilst I designed the mounts, the tail end was cradled on a ratchet strap slung between the frame rails. Did that make sense??

Anyway. I have the mounts designed and fabbed up- I just need to weld them to the case. What is the case made of exactly? I'm going to be stick welding these so I guess the more accurate question would be... which rod would you recommend I use? I've got an abundance of 7018 in several different diameters as that's what I typically use on my projects. I've also got a can of 6011 and some 6013 floating around somewhere. Having never welded to a trans case before I'd like to ask before I screw something up!

Thanks guys!

 

[Avn-Tech]

Scuffy,

I have not seen the transmission you are talking about, but all transmissions I have seen so far have a place to bold the transmission mount to. I would not recommend welding on the case (unless you break the case, like happened at our shop installing the trans in a race car this week).

Laterrrrrrr
Avn-Tech

 

[98hd]

I'm sure it's probably cast. Welding to cast, from what I understand, requires a high-nickel rod, and alot of pre heat and post heat to avoid cracking.

 

[nhdiesel]

The case is cast iron. It should NOT be welded to. This transmission was designed to "hang" from the back of the engine with no mounts. The engine is mounted with the main mount at the flywheel adapter (bellhousing area) with a supporting mount at the front of the engine. The transmission just hangs off the rear and needs no mounts.

If you have an engine that doesn't have front & rear mounts, and absolutely need to have a transmission mount, then fab up brackets that bolt to existing holes on the transmission. I was going to use a 3053a in my Dodge Ram, and was going to design brackets to bolt to the rear of the case to existing holes.

Welding cast iron usually works for light duty reasons, like sealing up a crack, but won't do well for high-stress, like attaching mounts, especially since the mounts are a different metal.

What is the project? Whats the Spicer going into?

Jim

 

[Scuffy]

This is the 5 speed trans out of the Deuce. And although I'm not sure of the actual mounting in a Deuce situation- I know that in my hybrid/Jeep endevour that I really have no way of mounting it. The sides of the case are mostly a vertical plane with only a few curves or angles at the bottom or edges. I can only speculate, again in a Deuce situation, that the trans was merely held in place by being bolted to the engine or maybe suspended between the transfer case and engine which would both be bolted to mounts. There are not any visible tabs or mounting type fixtures on it. A cradle would ruin all hopes of decent ground clearance at this point and I'd still need some way of holding it securely in a cradle type mount. I'm trying to stick with the idea of heavy mounts attached to the case.

The mounts I have are made of a 4"x5" piece of 3/16" plate, off of which is a 5" long piece of 2"x4" 3/16 wall rectangle stock. The rectangle tubing essentially stands off the side of the plate at a perpendicular angle. This has a hole drilled completely through in which to accept a bolt to anchor it to a similar, gusseted, mount on my frame rail. Between the mounts I've allowed room for isolation mounts/rubbers.

 

[Scuffy]

nhdiesel- I'd given a few of the details in a couple earlier threads of mine. It's a 1973 CJ5. The engine is an aluminum 3-53 from a Gama Goat. The trans is the Spicer. And the transfer case is a NP205. All of this is sitting in a frame that I designed which sits on top of a pair of 2.5 ton Rockwells. It's interesting to say the least. I've just finished stretching the body and hard top 16 inches. It now resembles a Scrambler. Pretty fun over all as this is my first project of this magnitude. I have to literally design and fab everything on it!

So pretty much I should scrap the mount ideas and just keep it suspended between the mounted engine and the mounted transfer case? The transfer case is divorced version of the NP205 so it will have its own cross member. And what I had planned on doing was just getting matching yolks or flanges for the Spicer and the NP205 and using a u-joint between them. In a suspended situation would this cause any harm or intensified wear to the u-joint or transmission?

Edit: Another thought, another angle... Might it be wise to just make mounts that would utilize the bolts holding the top plate on the transmission? Essentially just run a plate with the same bolt pattern and sandwich that on top of the top plate?

 

[mudguppy]

i wouldn't just mount the transmission to the transfer w/ just a u-joint. that won't allow for any movement between the engine/trans and transfer and you are just asking to wear bearings and potentially crack someone's housing.

you need a jack shaft (short drive shaft) of some sort to allow for movement / vibration as well as frame flex.

and, yes, just hanging the spicer off of the engine adapter plate w/ no other mounting is fine.

 

[nk14zp]

 

[Scuffy]

Well geez! It's kinda hard to snatch pix of my project while I'm at work! lol I just happened to have time to post up so I thought I would. I'll grab some pix tonight when I get home and I will post them up for you guys!!

And I have to say that in all the forums I am a member of this is the first time I've had that collection of emoticons posted in one of my threads! I'm not sure whether I should take it as a compliment or insult (okay maybe just constructive criticism!)

 

[nhdiesel]

Scuffy, You will want 2 u-joints and a slip joint, just like any typical driveshaft. Becuase nothing is really moving far (don't need to account for axle travel, for example) you don't need a long shaft. You can do what I was going to do (also using a divorced 205), which is just have the 2 driveshaft slip joints with no actual tube. The shaft should be able to be kept down to like 6" between joints, maybe less. You won't need a ton of spline since it won't need to move back and forth. 4" of spline should be plenty. Allow maybe 1/2" of movement each way (total of 1" spline movement) and that should be plenty to account for transfer case and/or transmission movement.

And as long as the engine is mounted front and rear, no I wouldn't bother doing anything with the transmission mounts.

Jim

 

[Avn-Tech]

Scuffy,

As an alternate, I would drill and tap holes in the case to mount to.
That way, you and always put a bolt in to stop oil from leaking out.

I have a welder (flame spray), that uses a nickle powder and a gas welder to weld cast iron.
To start, I always prep, then preheat the item(350 deg), then post heat with a slow cool down.

I will not get a chance to look at my Deuce trans untill begining of next week, since my storage yard is in another town.

Laterrrrr
Avn-Tech

 

[tiger422]

If you weld to the case it will not hold it will brake out around the weld when under stress.
Fab mount to bolt to trans.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The tail of the trans has some threaded holes, you could make a mount for it utilizing those.

 

[Scuffy]

So it was too dark by the time I got home to get any decent pix of the engine/trans combo but... I do have some other pix to toss up. They are cell phone pix but I think they're good enough to get an idea of what's going on. I'm still fabbing bits and pieces so it's basically in a mock up stage. Nothing is final.

 

[mudguppy]

looks like a sweet project to me!!

 

[Scuffy]

It's been a fun project for sure! But it's also been a test of fab skills, lateral thinking, and stress! None of the components were originally meant to work together so I've had to really plan things out. Then stretching the tub and hard top was an adventure in and of itself. I always joke that because of the axles and transmission it's pretty much a Deuce with a Jeep body stuck on top!

 

[joshuaz223]

with those motor mounts you do need a trans mount. one near the rear will be enough. do you have pictures of the trans? is the tailshaft removable? if not a clamp on collar could be made so that you can run a common chevy trans mount on it. i have the ability to make something for you for nothing if you can supply some basic dimensions and pictures. i have a lot of 6061 t6 alum scraps and could keep this fairly light and trick looking. i just had surgery again and can only do light shop work for a few weeks.