What are your laws on Military vehicles?

[wallew]

Here in Colorado we finally got our 'shall issue' about two or three years ago. It was actually PASSED and sitting on the Governors desk the day of the 'Columbine HS' shootings.

Anyway, we have had a 'Make My Day' law that basically says if the perp is carrying your stereo out the door, wait for him to come back for the TV. THEN shoot him. If he falls outside, drag him back inside. I SWEAR that's what has been said IN THE MEDIA. As an NRA firearms instructor and degreed gunsmith, I could apply for a permit, but basically I don't carry unless I'm going to a 'bad part' of town. As I don't get out much (on purpose) and rarely go to said 'bad part' of town, I am not concerned with it.

As far as my deuce. I registered it as a 'classic' vehicle, which means it's more that 25 years old. The main reason is because IF you go the 'classic' route, you must get your vehicle inspected once and ONLY once. As it cost me $65 to get it inspected the first time, I felt that paying that on yearly basis wasn't very smart on my part.

My deuce is a 63 Kaiser. Because it's GVW is 6400 lbs (I know that's wrong, but when I tried to explain it to the guy behind the counter, he said 'that's what it says on the title, that's what it is'.

I know enough to pick my battles with city hall carefully. By going the 'classic' route, I had to pony up about $525 for five years license plates (expire 2011), but the yearly plate was like $135 per year. Then add in that 'extra' $65 for the yearly inspection and it's more like $200 per year. While cheaper than the $525 in the short run, in the long run, it was about a $500 savings every five years. Pretty much a no brainer.

 

[Low-Tech-Redneck]

Our deuce is also registered as an "antique historical vehicle" a registration option when you register a vehicle with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (My home state)

The pros, you only have to get it registered once, and the registration lasts the life of the vehicle

No yearly inspections or emissions (all PA vehicles must pass a yearly safety and emissions test)

Low insurance cost, (insurance agents consider classic cars good risks because they are almost garunteed to be in good shape and driven with caution)

Cons, the antique plate limits you to "Reasonable personal usage" which the law defines as 1 day a week driving, excluding driving to any shows or parades, but, unless you make a habit out of being seen eveywhere in the thing, it's unlikely that anyone will cause you any harm.


THere's no reason why it couldn't be registered w/ a normal truck plate, PA grandfathers in vehicles, that is, they only have to have equipment that was installed as OEM (From the factory) thus, since the truck didn't come with mufflers, I don't have to add them, since it didn't come with seatbelts, I don't have to add them, it didn't come with emissions equipment, so I don't have to add it , etc etc etc. It would take a little more red tape, but I could have that truck as my daily driver if I wanted to, and as long as I do no commercial for-hire hauling, I don't have to meet any of the trucking regulations either. PA doesn't even require a CDL (Commercial Driver's Lisence. i.e. large truck lisence) until your vehicle weighs 20,001 pounds or tows a trailer of 10,001 pounds.

It's just cheaper to go the antique route for insurance/registration sake.

Obviously, since there are 50 states with 50 different DMV and traffic laws, I can't speak how easy or hard it is to do the same in another state.

I haven't looked too deeply into it, but I believe tracked vehicles are prohibited unless they are construction equipment or implements of husbandry (i.e. farm equipment) and then only moving from jobsite to jobsite.

 

[rice]

No inspections here in SC

 

[m3a1_ht]

I am in Indiana, USA. There is actually a state law that says that historic military vehicles do no not need tags - but I have my halftrack and M62 plated as antiques ($32/year/vehicle) so that I don't have to stop for a chat with a police officer every 1000 yards. I doubt that they would bother me but, regardless, something told me that explaining a law to an officer, no matter how obscure the law was, was not going to go well.

Regarding self defense... Indiana just passed a law that says you do NOT have to retreat from an intruder who is in your home no matter how ample the opportunity. Intruder in the house = dead intruder in the house in Indiana, now.

 

[M35A2]

Hey guys, remember I'm from England!!

Does that mean that you can walk around with a 9mm and shoot anyone who tries to mug you?

Ever read any A. Conan Doyle? When Holmes told Dr Watson to bring his revolver, it wasn't for target practice. So, you chaps do in fact have a history of just this exact sort of thing under Queen Victoria. Its not so strange, just forgotten. But it was a fairly normal thing for a gentleman to be armed in the UK in places like London when there was some concern of crime to be dealt with. Webley and other companies didn't just make revolvers for the military you know.

But, more or less, yes, I can go about my normal business around my state and several other states (we're still getting all the states to recognize other states CCW licenses) while armed and defend myself if attacked or if I witness a bad crime in progress. Different state have slightly different laws. Some allow you to only defend you and yours, others allow you to intervene in a violent crime (Like Georgia).

So, in my state of Georgia, if I see a man dragging a woman out of a car I'd be perfectly justified in shooting him or by being nice and yelling at him to stop doing what he's doing if I'm not sure. The burdon of proof is on my to amply demonstrate to the police or at worst a jury that I was in fact in fear of her life (in this instance).

While it might sound like a counter intuitive solution to crime, the key thing is that only law abiding citizens can get these kind of permits (background checks are involved) and the effect is that criminals don't know who among their potential victims are armed. And more over, it places victims that are armed on even footing with their criminals in terms of force levels and the criminals very much dislike a fair fight. 99% of the time, when confronted with a victim that's fighting back armed, they turn tail and run.

Again, I must stress that going at someone with a firearm is still very much frowned upon. If you do get into a gunfight you better damn well have a good reason and it's certainly not a writ to go around enforcing your will upon others. However the advantage of the system we have is that if you deal with police and you are a CCW permit holder, once they're appraised of that status they're often far more amiable with you because they know you've been through the same kind of background check system they go through for their employment as police.

Hey Ryan

Yes. I know our past. That's why we had the British Empire, because we didn't give a t*ss what anyone else thought of us.

In the 17th Century our country was in Civil War. Those were the days when you could kill a man for stealing your beer. If anyone was of Catholic faith, they used to burn them at the stake. We had public executions. Traitors were more often than not tortured in the most horrible way. Usually this involved putting them on a device known as the RACK. This is a device with two drums, one each end of a person. They used to put the rope around the wrists and ankles, and tighten the ropes until it pulled the arms and legs out of their sockets. They used to put them back in and do it all over again. This would go on for days. Then they would hang you until you were semi-conscious, cut you down, cut you open from chin to groin while still alive and de-bowel you, then cut you into 4 quarters. They would cut the head off and stick it on a spike, with a sign attached saying, “Behold, the head of a traitor”.

In those days, men were men. We fought hard and long for over a thousand years to get to where we were in the 19th Century. Then, since the Second World War, our Empire has disappeared into the mist. Now we have a Socialist Government, with MP’s that grew up on the food of Greenpeace and CND. Our rulers now, are socialists verging on Communists. You wouldn’t believe how far down the toilet our country has gone since the Labour party won office. The illegal immigrants that are in this country you wouldn’t believe. There are about 500,000 illegal immigrants in the country that the Government doesn’t even know about.

The Government panders to the whim of the Muslims in this country. We have all these Muslims that get special treatment. I applied to be a Police Officer last year, but was rejected, even though I was a Corporal in the British Army for eight years. They told me because I had a tattoo on my right upper arm, it might cause offence to someone, so they rejected my application. But the Police are very undermanned and are still advertising, with the slogan at the bottom of the ads saying “special consideration will be given to people from an ethnic minority”. In other words, if I was a Muslim, I would have been fast tracked into the Police.

We have crime that is spiralling out of control. A few years ago, a farmer shot two gypsies (mainly Irish travellers that live in caravans, what you call trailers) who had broken into the guys farm on numerous occasions. The Police were aware of this, but did nothing. So these guys break into his farm again, but this time he was waiting for them. He shot one dead with his 12 bore shotgun, the other got wounded pretty badly. They were at the bottom of his staircase in his own house when he fired. He got arrested and jailed for life. This was reduced on appeal. Then, after a big public outcry, he was released.

There is a craze known as “Happy Slapping” over here. It’s where a gang with video camera’s or video phones beat you to a pulp and video it for fun. Most youths carry knifes, and use them without thought. If I beat someone up for trying to steal my truck, I would be the one be arrested, and charged. I would even have to pay compensation to my “victim”.

A lot of people complain about Mr Bush, but he is better to have in Goverment, than a left wing socialist.

 

[M35A2]

Our deuce is also registered as an "antique historical vehicle" a registration option when you register a vehicle with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (My home state)

The pros, you only have to get it registered once, and the registration lasts the life of the vehicle

No yearly inspections or emissions (all PA vehicles must pass a yearly safety and emissions test)

Low insurance cost, (insurance agents consider classic cars good risks because they are almost garunteed to be in good shape and driven with caution)

Cons, the antique plate limits you to "Reasonable personal usage" which the law defines as 1 day a week driving, excluding driving to any shows or parades, but, unless you make a habit out of being seen eveywhere in the thing, it's unlikely that anyone will cause you any harm.


THere's no reason why it couldn't be registered w/ a normal truck plate, PA grandfathers in vehicles, that is, they only have to have equipment that was installed as OEM (From the factory) thus, since the truck didn't come with mufflers, I don't have to add them, since it didn't come with seatbelts, I don't have to add them, it didn't come with emissions equipment, so I don't have to add it , etc etc etc. It would take a little more red tape, but I could have that truck as my daily driver if I wanted to, and as long as I do no commercial for-hire hauling, I don't have to meet any of the trucking regulations either. PA doesn't even require a CDL (Commercial Driver's Lisence. i.e. large truck lisence) until your vehicle weighs 20,001 pounds or tows a trailer of 10,001 pounds.

It's just cheaper to go the antique route for insurance/registration sake.

Obviously, since there are 50 states with 50 different DMV and traffic laws, I can't speak how easy or hard it is to do the same in another state.

I haven't looked too deeply into it, but I believe tracked vehicles are prohibited unless they are construction equipment or implements of husbandry (i.e. farm equipment) and then only moving from jobsite to jobsite.

Low Tech Redneck

Your Law sounds similar to UK law regarding trucks. In England, when you buy a vehicle, it is registered once. When it is registered they give you the vehicles licence number. You then get the licence number plate made at motor factors. If the vehicle is brand new, the dealer does this for you. If the vehicle is imported or ex military, you have to do it yourself. Then once the vehicle has its licence plate fitted, it stays on that vehicle for life. When you buy a vehicle second hand, you have to fill in your details on the vehicle log book, and the seller completes his sections of the log book. The seller then has to mail the log book to the DVLA (driver and vehicle licensing agency) after giving the buyer a small slip from the log book to prove to the Police that he owns the vehicle. After a few weeks, the new owner receives a new log book with his details on. The vehicle registration number stays the same regardless of who owns it.

Then when the vehicle reaches three years old, it has to have the first of its annual safety checks. This then has to be done every year the vehicle is kept on the road for.

As far as ex military vehicles go. This is what you have to do. You go to the auction (if you buy from a dealer, all this is usually done by them) and buy the vehicle you want. With the vehicle you will have the release papers from the Army/Air Force/Navy stating that the vehicle has been released from service. This will usually have the last unit the vehicle was with, and the date when the vehicle was first registered with the Military. In England Military vehicles have their own registrations; these can’t be used by civilians.

You then have to get the vehicle home, without driving it on the road (if it’s un-registered). Once it’s home you then have to get the vehicle insured (using the chassis number, as it won’t have a registration number until it’s been registered) then booked in for it’s safety check (this only applies to trucks under 7.5tons and newer than 1960). You are only allowed to drive the vehicle un-registered if the vehicle is booked in for a test. Once the vehicle passes the safety check, you get a computer print out (the computer is linked to the central government vehicle database) called an MOT certificate. This states that the vehicle has passed the safety check, and is valid for one year. Instead of the registration, the MOT will have the chassis number on instead.

Once you have the MOT, you then go to a licensing office with your MOT, proof of insurance, a vehicle license application form that you get from the mail office which you have to enter all the vehicle details onto including colour, fuel, weight GVW, ULW etc,etc, and the release papers from the Military. You hand these over to the clerk. He/she will check the age of the vehicle, and check the MOT and insurance documents. They then will get the computer to give an age related vehicle registration number. They keep the vehicle licence application form and the release papers and give you a print out authorising a motor factor to make the vehicle registration plates. You then have to pay them money for the registration and road tax (if the vehicle is newer than 1972).

Then once you have your registration number plates fitted to the vehicle you can then drive it. There is no restriction on how much I use the vehicle. If I have a truck that is pre 1960 I don’t need to have a Heavy Goods Vehicle driver’s licence (I’ve got a class one HGV licence anyway) and it doesn’t need an MOT or road tax. BUT, you have to be very careful what you put in the back. If the Police stop you and the rear is loaded with anything that could be described as goods, then the truck would need to be taxed as a commercial vehicle and as such WOULD need to be MOT’d, taxed and the driver would need to have an HGV drivers licence and would also have to conform to drivers hours regulations etc,etc. That is just a can of worms that you DO NOT want to open!!!

 

[Gatnom]

Hey Low Tech, CDL in PA actually does not come into play till you go over 26,000 or tow over 10,000. Also you can can get your GVW raised above the stated # on the mfg's tag with the correct form and an insp. mechanics approval. Dave

 

[Low-Tech-Redneck]

Consarn it, I don't know why, but I keep thinking it's 20,001, you're right, taken from the PA DMV website, it's

A Pennsylvania CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.

 

[WillWagner]

Cal. is almost the same as Pa it looks like. It cost me 127.00 to register my '68 kaiser as a hist. veh., and 61.92 for insurance bi annually thru State Farm if you cam believe that. The insurance deal was one of my wifes original "do you know what it's gonna cost us" things. No inspections, less than 26.001 gvw, no CDL as per the DMV lady. This thing is less expensive to drive than my 1ton Chevy 4x4.