What should I do...and what are my options legally.

[NDT]

I came here as a new member looking for advice. I was expecting something more from an individual who has been a member here so long. That's all. We can lighten up, but we can be both honest and seroius too I hope.

OK, point taken. The title is now in your name. The previous owner cannot take the title in your name and correct it at the tax office. So it's on you, unless you transfer title back to him, have him fix it, and transfer back to you. Each time paying plenty of fees. So let's say you decide to fix the year on the title. The tax office cannot determine the year of mfg from the VIN, it's not embedded like 17 digit VINs. So, they will send you to the San Antonio auto crimes unit for a VTR68A information verification. Hmm, do you think they may know something about the "off road only" stipulation of HMMWVs? Let's say they don't. So you say, my buddy at "MMA" (what is that anyway?) said it's a '89. They will send you on your way, that is no proof of anything. Where else will you get proof? Sure, there is a chart floating around on the 'net that shows HMMWV VIN ranges and year of MFG. That is not a legal document that the cops will go on. So at the end of the day, all you have done is expose yourself to the possibility of having your title branded "off road vehicle". That is why I gave you the answer I did.

 

[4x4nutz]

OK, point taken. The title is now in your name. The previous owner cannot take the title in your name and correct it at the tax office. So it's on you, unless you transfer title back to him, have him fix it, and transfer back to you. Each time paying plenty of fees. So let's say you decide to fix the year on the title. The tax office cannot determine the year of mfg from the VIN, it's not embedded like 17 digit VINs. So, they will send you to the San Antonio auto crimes unit for a VTR68A information verification. Hmm, do you think they may know something about the "off road only" stipulation of HMMWVs? Let's say they don't. So you say, my buddy at "MMA" (what is that anyway?) said it's a '89. They will send you on your way, that is no proof of anything. Where else will you get proof? Sure, there is a chart floating around on the 'net that shows HMMWV VIN ranges and year of MFG. That is not a legal document that the cops will go on. So at the end of the day, all you have done is expose yourself to the possibility of having your title branded "off road vehicle". That is why I gave you the answer I did.

Thanx. At this point, anything I do will depend on how the seller responds. Going to law enforcement isn't really an option I want to persue as I don't know if the seller knowingly misrepresented the vehicle info to me. The title is a Bonded Texas title, so i am not worried that it might be re-labeled a "Offroad Use Only." Since I kinda got the crappy end of the deal, should I expect some sort of compensation? Knowing what you know about HMMWV types and year models, would you pay the same amount of money for both a 1989 M998 and a 1998 M998 with the same mileage?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

GP was selling M998's with 2004 data plates, they were re stamped when they went through reset.
i get trucks from GP constantly that have mods that don't merry up with the year of mfg on the data plate, for example, the location of the seat belt mounting location on the tunnel, the 85-8? Had the captive nut farther behind the front seats, the MWO moved them farther forward, but the old captive nut is still there, that would be an early truck.I don't care what it says personally. In calif I wouldn't buy it only because 98 model years and later require smog.
if it were me though, just leave it, the data plate matches the title and that's all you need, it's not a high end collector car.

 

[TOBASH]

Thanx. At this point, anything I do will depend on how the seller responds. Going to law enforcement isn't really an option I want to persue as I don't know if the seller knowingly misrepresented the vehicle info to me. The title is a Bonded Texas title, so i am not worried that it might be re-labeled a "Offroad Use Only." Since I kinda got the crappy end of the deal, should I expect some sort of compensation? Knowing what you know about HMMWV types and year models, would you pay the same amount of money for both a 1989 M998 and a 1998 M998 with the same mileage?

With all due respect and meaning no disrespect, Caveat Emptor..."Let the buyer beware".

Either keep the truck or sell the truck or research the numbers to prove it is not stolen, but stop looking at someone else to take a fall or give you financial compensation.

AND you attacked a good guy and a regular (NDT) when he told you to 'chill out' and that 'all was OK.' What was that all about?

[Don't get me wrong! I pissed off several people here too - but I did not do so by engaging in a personal attack.]

MHO, your opinion may vary.

Just being honest. Sorry if it is direct and to the point.

T

 

[Action]

I have seen some of these get titles with the year that it was first civilian titled. But you said this was auctioned last year. That can't be the case for you.

 

[4x4nutz]

With all due respect and meaning no disrespect, Caveat Emptor..."Let the buyer beware".

Either keep the truck or sell the truck or research the numbers to prove it is not stolen, but stop looking at someone else to take a fall or give you financial compensation.

AND you attacked a good guy and a regular (NDT) when he told you to 'chill out' and that 'all was OK.' What was that all about?

[Don't get me wrong! I pissed off several people here too - but I did not do so by engaging in a personal attack.]

MHO, your opinion may vary.

Just being honest. Sorry if it is direct and to the point.

T

I think you comment about "buyer beware" is right on point. Also, this vehicle was not stolen....I actually found the original auction (GovPLanet) where it was listed with NO year model. GP does list items for sale without a model year. As far as me "attacking" your friend, I think your being a little overly dramatic. His original response to my question was that I should do something I know is wrong, and then just let it go. Those are not options for me. I do appreciate everyone's response.....and maybe I'm just a little butt-hurt after being taken for a fool....lol

 

[doghead]

Contact an attorney, if you want the correct answers to your questions.

 

[4x4nutz]

Contact an attorney, if you want the correct answers to your questions.

Speaking with a legal aid later today at Fort Sam Houston. Thanx

 

[springbok]

I have told this to EVERYONE that I talk to about buying military vehicles.
Three things to never trust:
The Date, the mileage and the fuel gauge...
I have a 1998 M998 yet it has a 4 digit serial number (2XXX) Both stamped on the data plate...
No way a 1998 would have a 4 digit S/N
Do I care, not one bit. Not like I bought an M1113 and got an M998.
Caveat emptor will trump any civil of fraud issues.

 

[Lionel]

Saw one, an 1123 on GP not too long ago advertised as a 2008 because that was the date on the new (reset) dataplate. The serial number put it squarely in the 1998-99 range. Happens all the time.

 

[4x4nutz]

Saw one, an 1123 on GP not too long ago advertised as a 2008 because that was the date on the new (reset) dataplate. The serial number put it squarely in the 1998-99 range. Happens all the time.

There is no delivery date or re-set date on the data plate on the pillar. And GP did not list a year model for this vehicle at auctionn - they left it blank. The person who sold it to me is a Texas dealer. So...where did this 1998 come from....?

 

[Lionel]

Not an expert, but sounds fraudulent to me. Intentionally or not, this is what happens when the "quick buck" guys get involved.

 

[4x4nutz]

Not an expert, but sounds fraudulent to me. Intentionally or not, this is what happens when the "quick buck" guys get involved.

That's what I'm thinking as the Texas dealer who sold it to me actually is paid by GP to hold pre-sold/auctioned military vehicles at his yard here in Texas.

 

[Jbulach]

Did you pay too much for the truck? Shouldn't all of the questions been answered before you stuck another $3k in it? Is there more to this story???

 

[mkcoen]

There is no delivery date or re-set date on the data plate on the pillar. And GP did not list a year model for this vehicle at auctionn - they left it blank. The person who sold it to me is a Texas dealer. So...where did this 1998 come from....?

In all likelihood someone saw M998 and just thought "oh 1998" and went from there. In the end you have very little recourse. Keep it or sell it but you're pretty much stuck with the '98 label. How much are you willing to spend to change something that, in the end, just doesn't really matter?

 

[Chief_919]

Data plates with blank dates of manufacture are pretty common. Nobody in service cares about the date of manufacture, only the serial number and registration number matter, so when plates get replaced they don't bother stamping that. You have found the original auction showing no year was listed, so it sounds like the original buyer and the inspector for the state of Texas who approved the bonded title paperwork it made a best guess as to the year.

Since it is a bonded title the state was legally satisfied of the year. There is a good chance this truck went through rebuild, possibly at AM General even, and had some 98 dated stuff that may have let them to that conclusion.

At this point I would not try and change the title date. If what was presented to the state was enough for them to call it a 98, let it be a 98 on paper. But I would represent to any buyer the facts as you know them, that this truck appears to be an earlier one based on the serial number and features but the title says 98.

You are being honest with the buyer, and not poking the government with a stick trying to correct paperwork that really won't change anything if you get.

Your situation is not uncommon. Ask anyone who messes with old Jeeps and you will find that a large percentage of Jeeps are running around with the year of manufacture on the paperwork anywhere from 1 to 20 years off. Like M998's the difference between years were slight on many and most people don't know and it was very common for people to just have paperwork for a Jeep, wreck it, buy another one and just swap plates or for them to do a bonded title and, like was done in your case, make a best guess as to the year. The last GPW I bought was a 1943 based on the frame serial number but came with a title listing it as a 1959 with that serial number.

 

[4x4nutz]

I must admit I am partly to blame for not doing more research. Just trusted this guy....lol...some years ago my captain repeated over and over...."trust, but verify."

 

[Hoefler]

I think the model of Military vehicle has more to do with its value than the year of manufacture. A vehicle barely used for 30 years will not be that much different than one used in the same manner for 20.
You may find the value difference between the years (if same config and model) is maybe $500 or more than likely no difference at all. But say its $500, you will spend more time, energy and money than the difference in value.
Given the market is becoming flush with this stuff, looking at non special vehicles as an investment may disappoint you when you are ready to sell this vehicle.
When you decide to sell, list it as 89 and spell out the history of the model year mistake. Call it an 89 and enjoy your new toy. From the pictures it looks like a nice one.
Pete

Speaking with a legal aid later today at Fort Sam Houston. Thanx

 

[ODFever]

My first MV, a MUTT, was titled as a 1980. I learned later that it was a 1971. I inquired about changing the title to reflect the year. The overwhelming response was "let it slide" and "don't bother". I did just that. I drove it, legally, for many years. I sold it and bought my Model A.

My advice echoes what you've read already. Don't poke the bear or whip a stick at the hornet's nest. Let it slide. Enjoy the truck. Drive it often, and drive it everywhere!!!

 

[NDT]

What really smells fishy here is, if this truck sold a year ago on GP, why does it have a bonded title? Those cost $600. Why didn't the dealer just process the GP paperwork? Unless of couse he never had any because???