emr
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There sure is wet and dry torque, But in a wheel stud this is simply put thinking WAYYYYYY to much 
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Wheel Lug Nuts & Studs and Anti-Seize
- Thread starter Another Ahab
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Some interesting read, number TWO of maintence of the NYSDOT item is interesting
http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Anti-seize
http://fleetowner.com/equipment/tiretracks/fleet_debunking_myth
http://brakeandfrontend.blogspot.com/2007/05/no-anti-seize-on-lug-nuts.html
NYSDOT PTSBSAFETY ADVISORYRe: LOOSE LUG NUTS ON TRANSIT BUSES
DATE: October 23, 2012
ISSUE: Results and recommendations from survey
NYSDOT PTSB SAFETY
ADVISORY
Re: LOOSE LUG NUTS ON TRANSIT BUSES
DATE: October 7, 2012
ISSUE: Results and recommendations from survey
It is advised that all PTSB bus properties review the recommendations
attached in this advisory and implement them if not currently in place.
As a result of two loose wheel incidents in 2011 (attachment 1) and a PTSB
survey conducted in 2012 of all PTSB jurisdictional properties (attachment
2), the PTSB staff recommends the following actions to ensure proper
securement of all bus wheels (this is in addition to generally accepted
maintenance practices for wheel securement and is specific to loose lug
nuts):
MAINTENANCE
1. The most common cause of loose lug nuts is an under torque or over
torque condition. Therefore, it is recommended that proper attention
be paid to ensure that correct torque values are maintained in
accordance with the requirements stipulated by the manufacturer of
the bus. Develop and implement a re-torque program which is to be
utilized whenever wheels are removed. Data should be collected
and documented in file as to torque rates, dates, and bus mileage.
Re-torque should occur after 50-100 miles of use, or at mile intervals
as recommended by the manufacturer. Quality torque rating
equipment must be used and data filed with maintenance records.
Torque should be applied by a correctly sized, properly calibrated
impact gun, torque wrench, or other torque rating equipment. Do not
check torque values when wheels are excessively hot (from recent
use), as false values can be indicated. Note: a 1” impact gun
(impact wrench), commonly used in garages can easily over torque to
a 500 ft/pound rating. AN IMPACT WRENCH, IF NOT PROPERLY
CALIBRATED, SHOULD NOT BE USED TO ESTABLISH FINAL
TORQUE VALUES.
2. Do NOT use an anti-seize compound on studs or vertical mounting
surfaces.
3. During PMI’s and after wheel removal, inspect for crushing of slinger
material under inner nuts and washers which is an indication of high
bolt tension from an over-torque condition.
4. During wheel changes, look for stud fatigue fractures which are
indications of long time loose wheel studs.
5. All identified failures of any type should be documented in the
maintenance file and reviewed for a potential fleet trend.
6. Some systems have had success using loose wheel lug indicators to
assist bus operators identify loose lugs during their pre-trip or posttrip
inspections.
7. Report wheel off failures (required by regulation) or chronic part
failures to your local PTSB Investigator or NYSDOT MVI for follow up
action and advice.
PROCUREMENT:
8. Specify in the procurement specifications that all lug nuts must be
from the same manufacturer, and are of proper grade and strength.
Mixed lug nuts of type, style, grade, or manufacturer is not
acceptable.
9. Add a specific check and verification of lug nut type, style and grade
for proper application to the pre-acceptance or pre-delivery inspection
from the manufacture. Ensure outside vendors performing your preacceptance
inspections are aware of this recommended procedure.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. For questions or concerns,
please call the NYSDOT Public Transportation Safety Board staff at the
Albany, NY office at 518 485- 2449. This information will also be available
on the web at www.dot.ny.gov
http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Anti-seize
http://fleetowner.com/equipment/tiretracks/fleet_debunking_myth
http://brakeandfrontend.blogspot.com/2007/05/no-anti-seize-on-lug-nuts.html
NYSDOT PTSBSAFETY ADVISORYRe: LOOSE LUG NUTS ON TRANSIT BUSES
DATE: October 23, 2012
ISSUE: Results and recommendations from survey
NYSDOT PTSB SAFETY
ADVISORY
Re: LOOSE LUG NUTS ON TRANSIT BUSES
DATE: October 7, 2012
ISSUE: Results and recommendations from survey
It is advised that all PTSB bus properties review the recommendations
attached in this advisory and implement them if not currently in place.
As a result of two loose wheel incidents in 2011 (attachment 1) and a PTSB
survey conducted in 2012 of all PTSB jurisdictional properties (attachment
2), the PTSB staff recommends the following actions to ensure proper
securement of all bus wheels (this is in addition to generally accepted
maintenance practices for wheel securement and is specific to loose lug
nuts):
MAINTENANCE
1. The most common cause of loose lug nuts is an under torque or over
torque condition. Therefore, it is recommended that proper attention
be paid to ensure that correct torque values are maintained in
accordance with the requirements stipulated by the manufacturer of
the bus. Develop and implement a re-torque program which is to be
utilized whenever wheels are removed. Data should be collected
and documented in file as to torque rates, dates, and bus mileage.
Re-torque should occur after 50-100 miles of use, or at mile intervals
as recommended by the manufacturer. Quality torque rating
equipment must be used and data filed with maintenance records.
Torque should be applied by a correctly sized, properly calibrated
impact gun, torque wrench, or other torque rating equipment. Do not
check torque values when wheels are excessively hot (from recent
use), as false values can be indicated. Note: a 1” impact gun
(impact wrench), commonly used in garages can easily over torque to
a 500 ft/pound rating. AN IMPACT WRENCH, IF NOT PROPERLY
CALIBRATED, SHOULD NOT BE USED TO ESTABLISH FINAL
TORQUE VALUES.
2. Do NOT use an anti-seize compound on studs or vertical mounting
surfaces.
3. During PMI’s and after wheel removal, inspect for crushing of slinger
material under inner nuts and washers which is an indication of high
bolt tension from an over-torque condition.
4. During wheel changes, look for stud fatigue fractures which are
indications of long time loose wheel studs.
5. All identified failures of any type should be documented in the
maintenance file and reviewed for a potential fleet trend.
6. Some systems have had success using loose wheel lug indicators to
assist bus operators identify loose lugs during their pre-trip or posttrip
inspections.
7. Report wheel off failures (required by regulation) or chronic part
failures to your local PTSB Investigator or NYSDOT MVI for follow up
action and advice.
PROCUREMENT:
8. Specify in the procurement specifications that all lug nuts must be
from the same manufacturer, and are of proper grade and strength.
Mixed lug nuts of type, style, grade, or manufacturer is not
acceptable.
9. Add a specific check and verification of lug nut type, style and grade
for proper application to the pre-acceptance or pre-delivery inspection
from the manufacture. Ensure outside vendors performing your preacceptance
inspections are aware of this recommended procedure.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. For questions or concerns,
please call the NYSDOT Public Transportation Safety Board staff at the
Albany, NY office at 518 485- 2449. This information will also be available
on the web at www.dot.ny.gov
Last edited:
Vintage iron
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NOT if you are OVERSTRETCHING a stud, as this is what is keeping the wheel on and the truck off the ground.There sure is wet and dry torque, But in a wheel stud this is simply put thinking WAYYYYYY to much
I've removed A LOT of seized deuce lug nuts, sure wished they had anti seize on them. Even if the lube caused a 50ft lbs increase, that will not cause the studs to stretch. If you sit there and hammer down on them with a 3/4 or 1" impact for a while they will stretch regardless if there is lube or not, that person does not need to be working on vehicles if that's the case.
Hello I have time to beat a dead horse today.
My primary duty station was Ft lewis washington.
My primary MOS was 63/Y track mech.
My secondary MOS was 63/B.
As a PFC I was priveledged to do most tire maintainence.On every vehicle.[Including the motorpool seargents and captains and the motor poll warrant officer.]
The appropiate sized air impact was to be used to REMOVE all lugnuts.
AFTER the tire was removed but before any work began a pea sized drop of axle grease was placed on the stud threads at the half way point.
New guys used a spinner to take the nut to the bottem of the threads and back off.
If after a time you dont get caught stripping threads then they dont notice when you graduate to the air impact for that part.
[lord have mercy if you make one mistake]
Then the nut is run back off and all nuts collected in a clean folded rag under every tire.
Another clean rag is used to wipe off any excess and then laid over the then clean lubricated studs.
At the time of installation the air impact is used to cause the nuts to just touch bottem.
This makes a sound like wheee brt brt.
Then the appropiate torque specs were followed as per the correct TM
Any motorpool personell hearing WHEEEEE BRT BRT BRT BRT BRT would cringe and make sure they were no where near the offending FNG.
Who then would be shone how the gravel in the motor pool yard was expected to look by demonstration from the motor pool seargent using a set of chains drawn by vehicle [deuce or goat].
Then the entire mechanics section would be ordered to perform a brake lockup test on every availible vehicle.
At that time FNG WAS HANDED A GARDEN RAKE!!!
AS PER STANDING INSTRUCTION FROM 3RD ECHELON BATTLION COMMAND!!!
My primary duty station was Ft lewis washington.
My primary MOS was 63/Y track mech.
My secondary MOS was 63/B.
As a PFC I was priveledged to do most tire maintainence.On every vehicle.[Including the motorpool seargents and captains and the motor poll warrant officer.]
The appropiate sized air impact was to be used to REMOVE all lugnuts.
AFTER the tire was removed but before any work began a pea sized drop of axle grease was placed on the stud threads at the half way point.
New guys used a spinner to take the nut to the bottem of the threads and back off.
If after a time you dont get caught stripping threads then they dont notice when you graduate to the air impact for that part.
[lord have mercy if you make one mistake]
Then the nut is run back off and all nuts collected in a clean folded rag under every tire.
Another clean rag is used to wipe off any excess and then laid over the then clean lubricated studs.
At the time of installation the air impact is used to cause the nuts to just touch bottem.
This makes a sound like wheee brt brt.
Then the appropiate torque specs were followed as per the correct TM
Any motorpool personell hearing WHEEEEE BRT BRT BRT BRT BRT would cringe and make sure they were no where near the offending FNG.
Who then would be shone how the gravel in the motor pool yard was expected to look by demonstration from the motor pool seargent using a set of chains drawn by vehicle [deuce or goat].
Then the entire mechanics section would be ordered to perform a brake lockup test on every availible vehicle.
At that time FNG WAS HANDED A GARDEN RAKE!!!
AS PER STANDING INSTRUCTION FROM 3RD ECHELON BATTLION COMMAND!!!
SCSG-G4
PSVB 3003
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My copy of the Pocket Ref (3rd edition) shows this table on Pages 422 and 423, just in case anyone is interested.
Attachments
JasonS
Well-known member
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Check out this link from NY: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=Rd4CxICIhIGE5YvM5dxNrA&bvm=bv.51156542,d.b2I
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Can't read without something that will open a DOC file.
diesel dave
Active member
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Heavy truck tire/wheel shops have advised against the use of any lubricants,especially anti-sieze for years. They only install dry and recommend retorque after 200 miles. I have used anti-seize for decades and have no intention of stopping,however,the issue of over torquing and stretching/stripping is a fact.my 
Diecorpse
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So. . . . I felt so stupid today. My driver side front tire is bald and I was going to rotate it with one from the back. Well I had a hard time getting my lug nuts loose. I broke a stud, just sheared it right off. I failed to realize that on that side of the truck, the threads are reversed, righty loosey, lefty tighty. So for all the newbies out there, be aware that the threads are reveresed from the other side. I should have known but I was in stupid mode earlier. I still keep kicking my own a$$ for that. I rebuilt my motor and got every thing working right yet I turn the lug nut the wrong way. Lol. The good thing about it was a car of gals whistled at me while I was sweaty and flexing my muscles trying to get my tire off lol.
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I have to commend you for posting that you made a mistake. IT happens.
I can't imagine what it took to break a stud though....
I can't imagine what it took to break a stud though....
welldigger
Active member
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I have hammered on my lug nuts with a 3/4" impact for a good while before I realized I was going the wrong way.....whoooops. Never broke a stud though. My experience with broke wheel studs tells me when they break they were already on their way out. Unless of course your using extreme overkill. Such as said 3/4" impact on a chevy half ton lug nut because the idiot at the tire shop cross threaded it.I have to commend you for posting that you made a mistake. IT happens.
I can't imagine what it took to break a stud though....
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I change big truck tires every day and I'm not going to tell you if i do or not because someone on here will say I'm wrong no mater what i say.
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OK, don't tell. But please let us know if you ever decided to change your method...
G.
G.
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If i ant broke dont fix it!
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... which I would translate to: If I'm still alive by doing what I do, I'm not doing it wrong... Right....??
G.
G.
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A little Alberta, Canada content. My neighbor is on the commercial inspection team for the RCMP and they do not look for anti-seize on wheel studs. They check to see if the nuts are loose and if they are it is not his problem to understand why.
In the aspect of Alberta law it is not enforced so right or wrong ya won't get a ticket.
The TM for the G749 series of truck does not tell me to put anti-seize on the threads so I do it anyway. After reading this thread I'm so confused I think I'll do every second stud so I can be half right all the time.
What do your various TM's say about lubin' your stud?
The internet is amazing,
The actual force experienced by the stud is given by the formula:
F=T/([P/2pi]+[uT*rT/cos a]+[uB*RB])
F=tensile force on stud
T=applied torque
P=thread pitch
uT=coefficient of friction between threads
rT=radius of thread midline
a=30 degrees for common thread
uB=coefficient of friction for the bearing surface under fastener
rB=radius of bearing surface midline
Adding lubricant significantly reduces uT and uB, resulting in larger F for a given T.
True. Adding lube increases the load on bolts at a given torque.
In the aspect of Alberta law it is not enforced so right or wrong ya won't get a ticket.
The TM for the G749 series of truck does not tell me to put anti-seize on the threads so I do it anyway. After reading this thread I'm so confused I think I'll do every second stud so I can be half right all the time.
What do your various TM's say about lubin' your stud?
The internet is amazing,
The actual force experienced by the stud is given by the formula:
F=T/([P/2pi]+[uT*rT/cos a]+[uB*RB])
F=tensile force on stud
T=applied torque
P=thread pitch
uT=coefficient of friction between threads
rT=radius of thread midline
a=30 degrees for common thread
uB=coefficient of friction for the bearing surface under fastener
rB=radius of bearing surface midline
Adding lubricant significantly reduces uT and uB, resulting in larger F for a given T.
True. Adding lube increases the load on bolts at a given torque.
Last edited:
Greywolf54
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I'm new here but sure glad this issue has been settled. Where do I put the lubricant now? How about a dial indicator to measure stud streach
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This is the Internet, please don't throw facts up here as it will confuse some.
(Oh yeah, that's called sarcasm.)
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