Wheel stud swap questions

[tbar123]

I will admit I had no clue what the difference between hub/stud piloted wheels was. After the explanation from a few members, I went to talk with a mechanic at work. I finally was able to speak with him today. I really trust this guy. He not only explained it to me (again) but also showed me the difference between the 2. So the first thing I did when I returned home was to check and see what I had. Well of course I believe I have the wrong kind for my new wheels.
Do I have to change all wheel studs to mount these new hub piloted wheels?

If so does anyone know of a good place to find them?

What should I expect to pay for them?

What studs do I need? I seen some on Big Mikes, but wasn't sure of the correct type.

What lug nuts do I need? I do know about the right/left hand threads.

Thank you for any and all help,Have a very happy and safe 4th!

 

[topo]

I think you would have to change the hub ?

 

[tbar123]

Oh crap!!! Wonderful!!! But thank you for the info.

 

[davo727]

Exactly what truck is this for? If it came with Budd type wheels, studs and lugnuts then you need to stick with Budd wheels.

 

[tbar123]

It's an 84' M923, and from what I found out this truck is factory with bud/stud piloted wheels.

 

[davo727]

If you ended up with hub piloted wheels then sell them and buy Budds.

 

[tbar123]

Okay, I have more newbie questions! I do apologize for all the questions,but I need the pro's help again.

What kind of rim do I need exactly? I know it's a bud/stud pilot wheel

Why would I have to change my hubs?

If I bought the correct bud wheels, is there anything else to do besides bolting them together/on?

Does anybody want to trade four aluminum hub pilot wheels for four bud wheels?

Thanks again, and hopefully soon I can move onto another subject!!!!!

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay, I have more newbie questions! I do apologize for all the questions,but I need the pro's help again.

What kind of rim do I need exactly? I know it's a bud/stud pilot wheel

Why would I have to change my hubs?

If I bought the correct bud wheels, is there anything else to do besides bolting them together/on?

Does anybody want to trade four aluminum hub pilot wheels for four bud wheels?

Thanks again, and hopefully soon I can move onto another subject!!!!!

You need to give more information about what you are wanting to do. But yes you need bud wheels for your truck. Also if you have a set of hub pilot wheels you should be able to get enough money out of them to buy a set of bud wheels or trade for them.

 

[topo]

Maybe measure the large center hole on each wheel ? The hub centered hub will have a surface so the wheel will rest on it the lug nuts just hold the wheel to the hub the studs are not lined up perfectly in the holes in the wheel because the center of the wheel takes the weight and centers the wheel . On the stud centerd wheel the lug nuts a studs take the weight and center the wheel the large hole dose not even touch any thing . The right budd wheel will bolt right on . You might tell us what size of wheels you have ? And what size you want ?

 

[juanprado]

one easy way to distinguish is that a hub piloted wheel/rim will have a straight face where the lug seats. A budd wheel has a slight inward contour on the rim for the lug to snug to in the circle of the stud/lug.

Tbar I believe picked up some unique mrap wheels that have a 10 bolt 5 ton bolt pattern without the huge mrap center hole that were at red river that had 14x20's on them. Not sure what flavor of mrap but I don't recall these rims sold on gl before.

Thanks,

Juan

 

[tbar123]

CSM Davis; What info should I supply? All I want to do is put these 14.00R20's on my 84' M923. The factory wheel is definitely a bud.

TOPO; The large center hole is 8.5/8" on both the wheel and the diameter of the hub.

juanprado; I believe that is exactly what has happened ,as to why everything is confusing the bleep outta me!

I do appreciate everyone's patience while I learn through my very slow learning curveI do also appreciate the info,suggestions, and once again patience!

 

[juanprado]

I was looking at those auctions and have seen many alum and steel wheels mraps along with plain jane bud wheels, combat wheels and fmtv's go out of red river but none like you got. Since we can not get access to the Mrap tm's it is a crap shoot which ones had 14x20 originally.

Most seem to have 395 or 365's on them.

You might be able to move them on epay....

 

[Csm Davis]

Tbar we know what's on the truck but not the wheels that you have, post up some pictures with a ruler sitting on them so we can help you further.
Now if you don't have any wheels yet might I suggest you get the standard 5 ton combat wheels off of a 939 A1 or A2.

 

[tobyS]

Okay, Now I have the same issue....I have an 817 with budd style and bought MRAP wheels (steel) that are hub centered.

Here is my proposed solution that should work for steel (about 3/8" thick) or aluminum, about 3/4" thick. First forget machining the rim to make the straight holes of hub piloted both larger and tapered like the budd..that's way too complex.

Look at the two piece rear unit. the first piece is threaded on the inner and outer and has a square end for the lug wrench. That first piece holds the inner wheel on and then after the outer wheel is put on, the nut is put onto the first piece (sorry, the term for the first piece is not coming to me).

So I went looking for a way to fill the gap and then tighten it to the hub face. I happened to put the square end into my straight hole in the MRAP and found that by only machining off the wedged section and about 3/8" of just the outer threads, that the inner part could be used to center the hole and then the nut could secure it tightly to the hub face. That makes a two piece combination for securing the wheels, but comes in left and right threads and NO altercations are made to the wheel or the truck hubs. This is simply machining the inner piece to the hole diameter, which centers the wheel on the stud and then the nut, left or right can go on (backward so the straight face is on the rim, not the tapered side.

I'll try a sketch and attach it.

 

[tobyS]

Has anyone seen a spacer/lug-nut combo (like the sketch above) to mount hub pilot rims on a stud centered truck?

 

[fasttruck]

Budd stud piloted wheels use right hand thread on the passenger side and left handed thread on the driver's side. when duealm wheels arte used there is an inside and outside lug nut which on a 5 ton equals twenty lug nuts to remove to get the insside tire off. Hub piloted wheels use one shouldered lug nut with right hand threads on all wheel stations and a large impact wrench is typically required to get them off and on. lug pattern is typically different to prevent mixing and matching wheels. Atg least it is with the M747 trailer which was available with both types but not on the same unit.

 

[fasttruck]

The inside nut on a bud wheel stud piloted system is sometimes refered to as the thimble. With commercial trucks you have the replace the hub and the wheels to convert from stud piloted to the newer hub piloted wheels. Crack a stud piloted wheel today and it a special order item to get a new one as nobody stocks them as all new trucks come with hub piloted wheels.

 

[tobyS]

Fasttruck...do you understand the sketch above? The thimble can be machined so the outside fits the straight hole (centering it on the stud) and the nut then tightens it to the hub face. I cannot imagine a simpler way to adapt, with no machining to the wheel or hub (for bigger bolts). And it accommodates the left and right hand threads. Taking them on and off would require unlocking the nut and then removing the modified thimble, but not too complicated.

 

[Csm Davis]

I believe if you go looking for lug nuts you can get one that's got the lip like you are making. But we have a bunch of the correct rims for sell here used and new.

 

[tobyS]

I believe if you go looking for lug nuts you can get one that's got the lip like you are making. But we have a bunch of the correct rims for sell here used and new.

I already have the MRAP rims. Have 12 new ones.