Which 240 volt Mig welder?

[BIG_RED]

Hey friends,

This isn't strictly MV related but you guys always have all the answers and if you help me out I promise I'll use it to work on my CUCV first, haha.

I want a Mig welder (with a spoolgun option) for my home shop. I have 240 volt single phase power. I used to use a Lincoln PowerMig 180 at work to make brackets and stuff all the time. It was a good machine. I would like something at least that powerful. But I would like to keep it's form factor (the "home garage" style welding machine that is a table-top box with a handle on top. I don't want to step up to the ones that have wheels on the bottom and weigh 200 LBs).

I want to weld up floor and body sheet metal patch panels, as well as make myself a thick steel bumper (1/4" or 3/8") and a trailer hitch.

I have looked at Miller/Lincoln and they seem expensive for what you get. I have no interest in "autoset" or whatever, just more expensive and more stuff to break (in my mind(.

Then I came across Hobart. Everyone I've talked to who have used/owned on have loved them. And the price point is great for what you're getting.

I've narrowed it down to the Handler 190 or the Handler 210. I live in Canada so I will be buying online through Tractor Supply (or similar) and having the package shipped to a warehouse near the boarder where I will drive over and pick it up.

Here is what I'm looking at price wise at tractor supply:

HH190: $649.99
HH190 with Spoolgun (as a kit): $819.99
HH210: $899.99

They don't carry "just the spoolgun" so this price is from Northern Tool:

Spoolrunner 100 Spoolgun: $239.99

So for $820 I could have a ready to go HH190 with spoolgun. For $80 more I could get a HH210 without a spoolgun. Making the cost of the HH210 with spoolgun roughly $320 (240 spoolgun + 80 more to start) MORE than the HH190 setup. $1140.. That is alot of money.

So what I want to know is, would it be worth it? I mean, I'd rather spend the extra $320 now than have to sell my HH190 for half what I paid for it two years down the road to buy a HH210. What do you guys think? is 20 more amps for $320 worth it? Seems VERY steep to me. I looked into the duty cycle - they are not hugely different. Plus I am a slow worker who spends a lot of time lining things up and examining my work so I don't think waiting will be a big problem. Also some people seem to like the HH190's weld a little better. Main reason I ask is because according to hobart the HH190 is good for 5/16" and the HH210 is good for 3/8" in a single pass. Do you think a HH190 could make solid welds in 3/8" given enough time and more than one pass?

Thanks guys, off to work now - will check in later.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Hh210!

 

[Deucenut]

I am running a Hobart 187 and can weld 1/4 inch all day. If I am butt welding and am really concerned about strength I will either make a pass on each side or bevel the edges a little. If you are serious about welding much 3/8 inch I would go for the 210. I have never used a spool gun and, quite frankly, have never needed one.

Good luck which ever direction you decide to go. I think you would be happy with a Hobart,

 

[BIG_RED]

Just to clarify to anyone who reads this in the future and may not know, the Hobart 187 that DeuceNut has is virtually the same as a Hobart 190 (same transformer) except that they aren't made anymore and never had an easy way to add a spoolgun. Thank you guys.

 

[dmetalmiki]

I used to have a stick welder the size of a house! and a mig welder about the size of my dogs kennell..Now I have an "INVERTER" welder...weighs nothing, carry it up and down ladders all day if needed....size of a handbag(!) welds all my truck work, from bumbers frames and plating down to door panels. anti stick easy start..amazing. read up on them..you might be plesantly suprised.

 

[BIG_RED]

I used to have a stick welder the size of a house! and a mig welder about the size of my dogs kennell..Now I have an "INVERTER" welder...weighs nothing, carry it up and down ladders all day if needed....size of a handbag(!) welds all my truck work, from bumbers frames and plating down to door panels. anti stick easy start..amazing. read up on them..you might be plesantly suprised.

Which inverter welder do you have? I've heard good things about them too.. but portability is not such a big deal to me. I like the "hobbyist" form factor for their price more than anything. And although electronics have come a long way, I still think that there is much less to go wrong with a big coil of copper wire than a pile of transistors stuck on fancy heatsinks with fancy control circuitry. I guess even the hobarts I'm looking at have transistors and junk in them, but they are not power handling parts at least. Just my opinion. But thankyou very much for the suggestion. Those ARE cool, just maybe not what I'm looking for.

 

[m16ty]

Hobart and Miller are owned by the same people. The Hobart is a Miller without as many "bells and whistles". You can't go wrong with a Hobart. Just stay away from the foreign stuff.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Which inverter welder do you have? I've heard good things about them too.. but portability is not such a big deal to me. I like the "hobbyist" form factor for their price more than anything. And although electronics have come a long way, I still think that there is much less to go wrong with a big coil of copper wire than a pile of transistors stuck on fancy heatsinks with fancy control circuitry. I guess even the hobarts I'm looking at have transistors and junk in them, but they are not power handling parts at least. Just my opinion. But thankyou very much for the suggestion. Those ARE cool, just maybe not what I'm looking for.

I thought that too, for a while. I have been using a K.O.Lee stick welder that they stopped making in 1953. For some reason I had to weld something down at Crusher's place and used his tig/stick machine with ALL kinds of features. I couldn't believe the difference in how much better it welded.


I don't know what the difference is, but I am now searching for one!

 

[Rustygears]

I wouldn't trade my miller matic 250 for anything. Current model is the 252. Bulletproof, no auto nothing, built like a brick sh!thouse. Supports adding a spool gun for aluminum and has the built in hd cart for a large gas cylinder. 240/208 volt, 200 amp rated.

 

[6x6TRex]

I have a Lincoln 180C and love it! Heavy duty and can support a spool gun. Its about the same price as a Hobart. I paid ~$750 for mine.

The only reason you need a spool gun is if you are doing aluminum, anything else doesn't need one.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

I've had a Hobart 210 and spool gun for a couple years now. It's a good, solid welder. Being able to pick up consumeable parts at a local store like Tractor Supply is very handy when there's no local welding shop around. I've never had any trouble with the unit.

 

[Odyssey M]

I've been looking into MIG welders too (subscribed to the thread). Not to hijack, but broaden the thread... I noticed the generator/stick combos. It would be nice to have a backup generator for the house. Does anyone have inputs on these combos? Combos usually = Jack of all trades master of none?

I could be cheap and just use my deuce batteries in parallel to stick weld and the engine as a house generator.

 

[knuckleheadpanhead]

Before you make a decision, make sure to take a look at the Thermal arc 3 in 1 machines. I own the 252 and let me tell you that these machines are game changers for the industry. You can do three processes with the same machine. If I remember correctly, my machine only weighs about 65 lbs. With a 11 lb spool inside, I can easily pick it up and move it around. Amazing for a 250 amp welder. I was looking at the same machines that you are when I found out about this one. I do not regret my purchase one bit.
I ordered mine with a tig torch as well, but as yet have not tried it. The thing is awesome with mig and stick however. Just my two cents.

 

[mudman]

check out.."Multiplaz.com" I think you will be surprised.

 

[m16ty]

I've been looking into MIG welders too (subscribed to the thread). Not to hijack, but broaden the thread... I noticed the generator/stick combos. It would be nice to have a backup generator for the house. Does anyone have inputs on these combos? Combos usually = Jack of all trades master of none?

I could be cheap and just use my deuce batteries in parallel to stick weld and the engine as a house generator.

I've never seen a engine driven welder that wasn't also a generator. Well there was the old straight DC Pipelinners. They did have outlets but it was DC current.

Engine driven welders will do both welding and generating fine. They do tend to be lower generator wattage than a comparable size dedicated generator. I think my old Lincoln SA200 only as about 4500 watts output on the generator (it's a stout 4500 though).

 

[BIG_RED]

I looked at Multiplaz.com and the website seemed rather poorly done and hard to understand. I couldn't find a list of models and specs. Sorry. (Just wanted to put it out there that I did infact look and I do value the input here). I have heard good things about the thermalarc's too.. but as far as i know they are chinese made.. which <not to offend anyone here> makes me sorta nervous (learned my lesson with chinese tools.. and I'm going to NEED this welder all the time. I will check into their track record for reliability.. but there is also parts availability to consider. There is a miller shop relatively close to my place, that I bet could get me Hobart parts. Infact I think several parts are interchangeable between Miller/Hobart).

Thankyou for the suggestion on the Lincoln 180C. At work (as I mentioned in my first post) I had what was more or less the Lincoln 180T. It was a great machine. And they can be had on sale in the $650 range. But I would like something with a bit more power. I'd say 1/4" steel was hardish to do with the 180T. Worked great for 1/8" but if I were to do a lot of 1/4" or any 3/8" steel welding I would like a little more power (I'm sure some members may disagree with that, please note that it's just my opinion). It's worth mentioning that have read and heard from several different places/people that the Hobart 190 has significantly more power than the Lincoln 180's (even though the difference is only supposed to be 10 amps) - just incase any other members here have narrowed it down to a toss up between those two.

Thanks alot to Carl for the review on the HH210. I found that quite helpful. Between him and a few of the other guys I think I'm now looking for an HH210.

For those who don't know. as was mentioned before, you only need a spoolgun for welding aluminum and stainless steel. I want to make some aluminum battery boxes and floors so that is why I want a spoolgun. Several previous-generation welders (like the HH187, the previous version of the HH190) required something like $1000 kit to enable them to weld aluminum. The HH190 and HH210 require only a $240 gun that holds a little spool (hence "spool-gun") of aluminum wire, since aluminum wire is too flexible/flimsy to reliably feed through the normal mig gun tube all the way from the welding machine. Using a spoolgun, the wire only has to travel a few inches through a solid pipe. preventing the "rats-nest" wire pile in the welding machine that normally happens when you try to use aluminum wire on a normal mig welder. It's a feature worth considering when buying a mig welder, especially if you ever see yourself needing to weld aluminum.

To the member looking at the gas powered stick welder/generator: I would reccomend you look into it very hard before purchasing. A friend of mine had a welder/generator and it put out pretty poorly regulated power while acting as a generator.. seemed like the voltage regulator was a cheap afterthought stuck on a welder, along with a power outlet. I'm sure some of them are made much better than his old machine - but read up before dropping big $$$ - your initial assessment seemed spot-on.

 

[XanRa]

i personally try to stay away from hobby type welders... but that's probably just because i like high duty cycles

and on the spool gun/aluminum discussion- i'd rather just have a stick/tig machine and tig anything that wasn't mild

just my i guess

 

[BIG_RED]

I appreciate the input on staying away from hobby stuff, but I think these are fairly serious "hobbyist" welders. They're obviously not intended for an assembly line, but not really tinker-toys either. I have seen Miller 211's (fraternal twin of the HH210) in a body shop (although in your defense, there was larger welding equipment present as well). In my mind, what I'm looking at will be good enough (probably overkill) for what I need, and I could spend the $500 price difference on other tools/toys.

But in the interest of being open minded and facilitating me learning something - Which machine(s) do you think would be a good choice for a guy who likes to fab truck accessories and restore cars in his home garage?

 

[F18hornetM]

The Millermatic 252 is an awesome machine. I may have missed it in your post, but what did you need the spool gun for? Aluminum I suppose?? Spool gun for aluminum hooks up easily. But I only use the spool gun on thicker aluminum, like channel or heavier angle, trailer ramps etc. Thinner aluminum I use TIG. But the 252 is a great mig.
Have you priced the machines at Miller Welders, Welding Supplies, Plasma Cutters, Hobart and more at Cyberweld.com.
I have bought a few machines from them, best price around here and was free shipping.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Look into a remanufactured unit. I have a Hobart 180 that I bought a few years ago. First thing I used it for was to build my own cart for it. I think I paid like $350 for it, straight from the factory, with a 2 year warrenty.

When I went on a deployment it got moved outside, where it sat in the rain for several months. I thought I woudl have junk, but it welds just fine to this day. I just recently had to replace the gun's liner. Other than that, it has been a great machine.