Which APC is Right for Me?

[cye604]

I have come to terms with the fact that I will not be able to easily get an M113, so I am looking for an alternative APC or small armored vehicle. I'm new to the armor collecting hobby, so ease of maintenance and easy storage are a must for me. I plan on keeping it for a long while, so spare parts are a plus. Also, a huge need is a fully enclosed turret, because, well, turrets are cool. From my research, I have come across the BRDM-2, Ot-64 SKOT, FV432, and the CVRT. Which would you guys recommend for a good fit? Any others out there I missed? I saw the OT-90, but that thing seems a bit crazy sized for maintenance. Transport space inside (personnel, gear, etc.)would be a plus, but not necessary. Also fuel efficiency, which yes I know is not something they factored into designing massive metal boxes on wheels, but it would still be nice to save a few bucks every time I run it.

P.S. It should also be noted, I'm 6'1", and I want to be able to fit inside and close the hatch behind me, and from what I have seen, this may be an issue on the CVRT.

 

[turnkey]

used V-100 is a cool rig to play with easy to get parts.

 

[cye604]

used V-100 is a cool rig to play with easy to get parts.

It does look pretty cool. But does it count as US armor, since it is by an American company? I heard there is a rule against importing US armor (m113 most notably)

Also, a quick search shows pretty much none for sale... are they a rare item?

 

[bikeman]

importing... no... but there's not as much on the restrictions of stuff already in the US. If it's here, it can be owned (for the most part)... does that make sense?

watch ebay... armyjeeps.net... milweb... I imagine there are many others...

 

[B3.3T]

You failed to mention your budget. You get what you pay for. Do you want a worn-out headache or a real usable vehicle? You seem confused on some vehicles, such as V-100s, and its intended use. Do you want street-legal? Can you license a tracked vehicle in NY? These are often complex machines that require special tools and experience to maintain. There is a lot to consider.

 

[jdmcm]

Tankman Marc has a M113 restoration project for sale in up state New York. M113 are difficult to own but there are several in private hands throughout the world, including Canada and the USA. If that is the one you are after they are out there and I can tell you from personal experience there is a reason they are one of the most widely used vehicles still in service today...they are plain awesome, parts are easy to get, and the Detroit 6V53 and 6V53T make all the foreign APC's feel like boat anchors...and I should know

 

[teletech]

Well, since you mentioned the M113 as your starting point I'm assuming you are open to fully tracked armor.
As has been mentioned, you left a lot out about intended uses: miles driven, road use, protection wanted, etc. but here goes a start:

I like the British stuff since it's pretty well made and the manuals are in english, parts dealers and forums are also english speaking which is pretty huge as a help. The com-block stuff seems very hard to get parts for and service is arcane though this may change as more is brought in.

You should look at the SAURER 4K 4FA APC, very nice ride and might fit you pretty well. They are only kind-of large but I don't know of any in the states so parts and support will be lacking.

If you want low purchase price and lousy fuel consumption (2-3MPG) but good internal space: FV432. They are also pretty wide.
IF you can fit inside one and are willing to spend a bit more: CVRT (4-6MPG for a gasser, 6-8MPG diesel but the vehicle is also 50% more money) and fit in a normal garage. There are dozens in the states and more in Canada which may not seem like much but for armor that's pretty substantial.
The Stormer and Shielder are very nice vehicles for the money and actually often cheaper than the original CVR(T) series.
The V100s are a classy ride no doubt but hugely expensive and hard to come by.

do NOT buy armor WITHOUT TRYING IT on. Yeah, it might cost a grand to go to a meet like this weekend's festivities in Aquino but it is worth every penny.

figure it's going to cost you a bunch more money than your initial estimate though.

 

[CARNAC]

Tell us how much money you are ready to spend and that would narrow the field. Hope you have deep pockets, a place to store it and help in maintaining it. Armor ain't like a car.

 

[cye604]

Oh boy, seems I really jumped in the deep end here. Let me see what I can clear up. For starts, thanks everyone for the willingness to help!

As for budgeting, it is more of a fluid number right now than a set limit. Pretty much, just "don't break the bank." I'm pretty new to this, so I am not sure what I should expect to be paying, but to me it seems like anywhere from 10k to 30k. I may be way off, again no clue. I am still really early in the process, so I just wanted to get a feel for what it would cost to get one, what I would need to maintain it, and how much prep work I would have to do before buying.

For repairs and services, I have a friend who got me into the whole idea of armor collecting. He was a mechanic of some sort at a military museum and had a small collection himself. He's never owned an APC though, which is why I am here. I'm assuming that the tools needed are nothing insanely specific for the most part. I have enough of a selection of tools to start my own Autozone if I wanted, and anything specific to the APC I am sure I can get from whoever I buy it from. My main issue is the heavy lifting. I live in semi-suburban upstate NY, so I don't really have the land for a small shop crane if I need to be pulling armor plates. Also, being in semi-suburban area, I think that road capacity may be an issue. Last I checked, all the local roads are rated for like 20ish tons, but I should check that.

I have a, well I guess it is a carport for storage. Basically a barn with cement floors, high ceilings, and a lot of work area. It was originally used to restore big off-road trucks a long time ago. That being said though, if the APC could fit into a standard garage I wouldn't mind that too terribly.

I am fairly technically minded, been working with cars/boats/airplanes for a while now, but never armor. I can probably do most of the day-to-day maintenance, or learn how to do it fairly easily. I think the biggest obstacle would be track maintenance. My experience with tracks is limited to the old CAT excavators. Still, I am up for a challenge. However, I am not looking for a fixer-upper. I really want a mechanically sound, cosmetically beautiful piece to start off with.

I have no plans to get it registered for the road, it would be used primarily for off-roading. Also, I have heard that the local paintball and airsoft teams are looking for a tank to ride around in for their games, so there's another cool use for it. Heck, depending on how far demilitarized the guns are, I guess I could even throw one of their replica MGs on the turret and let them have at it.

I'd go for a CVRT, it sounds like my best option. Definitely love the convenient size, alright gas use, and english manuals. I am still worried about actually being able to fit in one though (it's like the Brits have never seen anyone over 5'6", gets really annoying having to crouch to get through doors whenever I go visiting). Maybe I'll have to track down someone selling one nearby and go give it a spin.

 

[RedBlok]

I would buy a Ferret or some other type of Armored Car. Tracks are cool, until you throw a track or have to really start working on them. There is somebody selling a Fully Restored Hellcat for $250,000. I think your budget is low considering that you want a mechanically sound, cosmetically beautiful piece to start with. Money will add up quick. MVs can be money pits if one is not careful.

Khaki imports has a couple armor units ready for sale. Here is there link http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/

In England http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=1 with the stuff from England you have the extra cost of US dollars to pounds, shipping, taxes and etc.

Plus like another member said, you really should drive before you buy, another added expense.

 

[mkcoen]

I agree with wheeled armor vs tracked. Ferrets are small enough to put on a trailer (gooseneck likely but still small) or, in TX for example, you can license it and drive it to events or parades. Tracked vehicles, outside maybe a Weasle, are heavy (so require major transportation ability), generally can't be driven on roads, and require a crew to maintain easily (try changing a M113 track by yourself).

 

[cye604]

Yeah, just got an email from Khaki. They put me at 35k to 55k for what I am looking for. Maybe I'll take a look at the Ferret.

 

[B3.3T]

For a first time vehicle, a Ferret is hard to beat. Cost, size, parts, all top the list. But it is not an APC. Nor will you ever find any armor to fit anyone over 5'8". Comfort is not their purpose. In the $10-30K price range, all you have are Ferrets and Saracens. And don't touch a Saracen ever for free. Nightmare of problems.

 

[teletech]

under $30k for tracked armor that isn't a wreck AND looks nice is not going to happen for you unless you have the sort of luck that wins lotteries (in which case cost wouldn't matter).
With some luck you can find a nice vehicle for $30k and you are in a pretty good spot for shipping so you could likely score a gas Spartan for under $33000 delivered but be prepared in case something goes wrong and it's 40.

A humber, Saracen or Saladin might be better choices though. I leave out the Ferret since while is is darling and cheap it's very small on the inside, especially if you have the turret.

--

 

[cye604]

Alright everyone, thanks for all the help, it seems I have quite a bit to consider still. I'll be keeping up with all the dealer sites, just waiting for something to come along.

 

[Carlo]

I agree with teletech. Your budget is a little low. You want less problems buy something already in the USA. You could buy something for 10 to 15 in the UK but spend another 10 to 15 to get it home. The freight forwarders nickel and dime you to death!

 

[blhar15]

A M114 might be another option, we have two of these right now with tons of parts. However the parts are hard to fine.

 

[teletech]

I'd go for a CVRT, it sounds like my best option. Definitely love the convenient size, alright gas use, and english manuals. I am still worried about actually being able to fit in one though (it's like the Brits have never seen anyone over 5'6", gets really annoying having to crouch to get through doors whenever I go visiting). Maybe I'll have to track down someone selling one nearby and go give it a spin.

Get on a flight to Toronto right now and you might still catch Aquino, I count 7 CVR(T) from where I'm sitting.

 

[datadawg]

You should look at a Saracen and Fox. The Saracen is a 6 WD, 4 Wheel steer SUV type vehicle. Very roomy and reasonably available. About 1,800 made. There are lots of detractors that will tell you they are worse than a root canal given to you by an X-wife, but I was in your shoes, did a lot of research and decided to get one. Mine is being fully overhauled in UK now and I should be all in for about $30K. The upside is roominess, great offroad capability and it's wheeled, so you can take the kids out for ice cream, or fit 12 guys and drive to the paint ball range. It's complicated, with bevel boxes, a Rolls Royce motor, etc., but it does have a small turret.

You should also look at a Fox, which is essentially a big brother to a Ferret, with a big, menacing turret that houses a 30 mm Rarden canon. They are much more rare, but you can still buy one for about $20K US in England, spend $10K overhauling it and another $5K bringing it here. You probably won't lose a dime when you decide to sell it. I got a Fox as well, and if you are looking for help, I can put you in touch with some folks in England that are plugged into what's available. You can also look at a Saladin, which has similar driveline to Saracen, but has a very impressive canon and turret.

If you are lusting for tracked armor, seriously investigate a Saurer 4K. It's an Austrian APC, is steered with a wheel, has a diesel motor and ability to open top hatches in the rear, so your passengers can feel like they're in a convertible. I was considering it, but logistics of exporting from EE were a bit daunting. Carlo has one and posted once that it is far nicer to drive than the British FV armor.

One thing that kept me away from tracked, at least for now, is that many tracks have integrated rubber pads and when they wear out, you must replace the entire track, not just the pads. CVRT's suffer from this. So usability on road is very limited. If you have a Saracen, for example, just register it as an antique and drive whenever you want to.

 

[Carlo]

The pads can be removed one section at a time. Yes they do wear out when used on the road.