Which genset for home power?

[hwcurtice]

Average home. Needs 220 as well as 120 for power. Which Genset should I be looking for?

After buying our new place, I noticed a lot of people have propane tanks which has me somewhat concerned for power outages, even though most of the power is underground.

Average home (LOL) We found one that is 4500 square feet, which was a little more than ones we found half the size.

But hey! I can park green stuff here!

 

[Carl_in_NH]

Need to know specifics about your loads to do a proper job, but generally speaking an MEP-002A would work for most people, with an MEP-003A for those more power hungry. Management of loads and fuel consumption are factors in the choice.

 

[edgephoto]

You can do a search for generator sizing. There you can plug in all your loads and it will help decide on the size. Square footage really does not matter. It is the items you need to power. I have and oil fired hot air furnace, electric hot water heater, and the usual loads such as microwave, toaster, hair dryer, refrigerator, lights, computers, TV, etc. I survived a week long outage last winter with a Generac 7500 watt unit. I just managed my load a little bit. I only turned on the hot water heater for an hour or so each day so we could shower. I was careful not to have the hot water heater on while microwaving and toasting. I bought an MEP-002a to take over these duties for the next outage. May plans are in the next few weeks to run a weekend test on generator power.

If you want to not worry about loads then go with an MEP-003a. However if not loaded up it will wet stack on you. Not to mention it uses twice the fuel as the MEP-002a.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

However if not loaded up it will wet stack on you.

I've not seen this in an air cooled genset like an MEP-003A; they tend to run hot enough to make this a non-issue. YMMV, but wet-stacking in a 003A is the last thing I'd worry about.

 

[gimpyrobb]

However if not loaded up it will wet stack on you.

Not really a concern when you are talking about an air cooled unit. Yeah, if you idle it all day long, but then, your splitting hairs.

 

[quickfarms]

Having propane tanks is more to do with the lack of natural gas available.

You need to make a list of your loads
Is your hot water heater, stove, oven, dryer and heating system gas or electric? Do you have or want to use your air conditioning.

You need to decide if you want a diesel, gasoline or propane powered generator.

You need to decide if you want a portable or fixed generator.

The last issue us how to connect it to the house and if you want automatic or manual transfer.

 

[storeman]

I would add a consideration or two to quickfarms fine list above.

What are you preparing for?

If your worst-case outage is expected to be a few days, propane fuel or gasoline (if you have gas stockpiled and it is stabilized).

If a longer outage, resupply of propane may well be an issue, as well as availability of gasoline (witness Sandy gas lines). If for an extended outage, I don't think anything compares to diesel.

We live very rural, i.e., at the end of the power lines in our county. In the last 5 or 6 years we have had outages lasting 10-12 days. Diesel works for me.

Jerry

 

[Nonotagain]

I'm going to go against the grain of mil-gensets and recogmend a Honda inverter genset or two.

For power outages that you only need a few lights and other insundry power items for the Honda EU1000i can't be beat. It's quiet, less than 50 dB in operation and uses less than a gallon of fuel in 4 hours fully loaded. Compared to to a MEP-002 or 003, your fuel costs will be 75 percent less.

For operating a well pump and other 220 volt items, a Honda 3000 or 4000 watt generator is the cats pajamas. Like it's smaller brother they are the best in class for being quiet and using the least amount of fuel.

I've found that for power outages in my area usually only lasting less than 12 hours, my gas powered Coleman industrial generator gets used more often than the MEP's.

I've got a couple of MEP-003's and if I had to do it over again, I'd pass on the mil generators and get the Honda.

 

[edgephoto]

Wet stacking I am sure is more of an issue with the water cooled models but you want to occasionally load up near 100% to really burn the fuel hot and clean.

Storeman is right. You need to decide on what your needs are. I have a 7500W petrol generator. it served me well last October with a 7 day outage. My main issue was getting fuel. We had no where near the lines that formed after Sandy but still finding a station with power was not easy. I have since added 20 gallons to my storage. This is enough for about 3, maybe 4 days.

I have since decided I want a unit that can run for extended outages. My town has suffered 4 of them in the last 14 months. I got lucky and have only had one that lasted longer than 12 hrs. My MEP-002a will be for long outages. I will store 30 gallons or so for the machine. Then I can tap my home heating oil tank if I need more.

 

[leedawg]

I'm going to go against the grain of mil-gensets and recogmend a Honda inverter genset or two.

For power outages that you only need a few lights and other insundry power items for the Honda EU1000i can't be beat. It's quiet, less than 50 dB in operation and uses less than a gallon of fuel in 4 hours fully loaded. Compared to to a MEP-002 or 003, your fuel costs will be 75 percent less.

For operating a well pump and other 220 volt items, a Honda 3000 or 4000 watt generator is the cats pajamas. Like it's smaller brother they are the best in class for being quiet and using the least amount of fuel.

I've found that for power outages in my area usually only lasting less than 12 hours, my gas powered Coleman industrial generator gets used more often than the MEP's.

I've got a couple of MEP-003's and if I had to do it over again, I'd pass on the mil generators and get the Honda.

id have to second this if you really want economy and its going to be a long outtage its hard to beat the Honda inverter type units. I have a EU2000i and absolutly love it. To be honest just to run the TV some lights and other routine things throughout a normal evening its more than enough power. That being said I also have a MEP 005a if I feel like I need to run everything without any concern for if im on the grid or not. However my fuel burn on the 005 is 2.5 gallons per hour so that will really start to add up for many days of outtage. Guess you got to ask yourself as everybody else has said what do you want out of it. My Honda EU 2000i cost more than my MEP 005a 30 kw generator so go figure guess that is where the value is in the mil sets however operational costs really close that gap fast depending on how much you run your set. I find the mil sets more fun to play with honestly and its something to work on when I am bored but the hondas are really hard to beat cant say enough good things about them.

 

[hwcurtice]

Sorry for the slow update.

House has two electric furnaces. It also has two water heaters, also electric. Then the standard electric stove, refer and other essential electric appliances. Yeah, if the power goes out, we're, um, up a creek.

I would prefer one with an automatic switch. Don't really want to see any linemen fry while working on the lines.

Yes, we can always fire up the BBQ for cooking, but how am I going to get my Keurig working?

 

[Isaac-1]

If you have all electric heat and no other source of heat in a winter outage you will need a LARGE generator. Electric heat is very inefficient, but I suspect being in WA you have very cheap electricity thanks to lots of hydro electric power.

Let me give you a comparison, I have a mid size mostly gas house (gas heat, gas stove) with city water,

I have several small generators, and a couple of larger ones, the smallest being a little 1,000 watt Honda inverter gasoline fueled unit for the barebones last ditch emergency to keep a couple of lights on, maybe a couple of fans, and run the fridge and chest freezer alternating one or the other every few hours.

For a bit more comfortable life in an emergency next up is one of my 3KW MEP-016 series generators (more like 4.5KW by civilian ratings), it will keep the furnace blower going in the winter or a couple of portable / window air conditioners in the summer (8,800 btu +12,000 btu), run the fridge and chest freezer, some lights, the tv, computer, and with minimal power management (turn off an air conditioner for the few minutes while they are running) I can also run the microwave, toaster, etc.

Up from there I have a MEP-002a 5KW generator (again more like 7KW civilian), this would allow a bit more life as normal, it would let me run the washing machine and the clothes dryer, as well as power the electric water heater (4500 watt) with most everything else turned off while the water heats up on about half a gallon per hour of diesel.

And a 10 KW MEP-003a would let me run my central air conditioner in the summer allowing basic life as normal with a bit over 1 gallon per hour of fuel use

By comparison my mother lives in a fairly large all electric house on the family farm about 20 miles away (around 4,000 sq ft heated, 4 electric water heaters, one is a small 20 gallon, 2.5 HP well pump, 3 central electric heaters, plus electric stove, oven, dryer, etc.) , she also does not like the idea of doing major load management and wants life that is somewhat normal while living on generator power, so I put a 33KW Kohler commercial diesel generator at her house (note there is a 1,500 gallon diesel tank 1/8 mile away from her house at the shed where the tractors are kept), even with this beast that consumes close to 3 gallons per hour of diesel at full load she still has some load management required for winter outages. Specifically she can only run 2 of the 3 central electric heaters (not a big issue as she does have 2 fire places), and has to place some limits on doing cooking and laundry at the same time, for summer outages (hurricane area), it is life as normal, all 3 central air conditioners, plus running the stove, oven , and hot water from all water heaters at once (which also causes the well pump to run) will just max out the 33KW generator.

I hope this gives you some idea of what you may need, and more importantly how wide of difference there can be between what one person needs and what another needs. So go check out the amp draw on the data plates of everything you want to run, then go back and do it with what you NEED to run, and decide a course of action. (note data plates are often worst case draw, real world may be a good bit less, but it is a starting point)

Ike

p.s. I generally suggest manual transfer switches, they are cheaper and there is nothing to go wrong, unlike an automatic switch where you may be without power, have a running generator and a transfer switch that refuses to transfer because it thinks the voltage is 1% out of tolerance .

 

[edgephoto]

Sorry for the slow update.

House has two electric furnaces. It also has two water heaters, also electric. Then the standard electric stove, refer and other essential electric appliances. Yeah, if the power goes out, we're, um, up a creek.

I would prefer one with an automatic switch. Don't really want to see any linemen fry while working on the lines.

Yes, we can always fire up the BBQ for cooking, but how am I going to get my Keurig working?

If you want to run all that at once you will need a monster. If you are planning to be prepared for an extended outage. Hurricane Sandy here on the east coast left people without power for 2 weeks. Fuel was very hard to come by. Even when stations had gasoline most did not have diesel.

You do not need an automatic transfer switch to keep lineman safe. If you plan to have your setup pass an electrical inspection you will need either a manual transfer switch or an interlock. I prefer an interlock because you use your same panel and can turn on any circuit you want to power up.

You need to get the wattage rating of your electric furnaces and water heaters. Figure out what is the bare minimum of appliances you want to run at once. Then we can help you size the unit for your needs. Yes you have some homework to do but it will be worth it. You want to get the right unit for your needs. You need to decide if you can get by with one furnace on at a time or all 3 have to be on. Do you need hot water heaters to run when the furnace(s) are on? These are the questions that will help sizing. If I had your situation I would run either the electric furnaces or the water heaters but not both at the same time. Water heaters will stay warm for a day or more. Electric water heaters take an hour or so to heat up. So turn off the furnace(s) and turn on the water heaters and after an hour switch back. If cooking turn off 1 or 2 of the furnaces. Your house should stay warm for an hour or two while cooking.

If you go too big you will waste fuel and possibly have a wet stack problem. If you go too small you will not be comfortable especially in cold weather. If you do not want to load manage as I describe then you will need to store a lot of fuel. Also some of the big units are 3 phase only.

 

[phil2968]

One thing to take into consideration on which genset to get is standby time. A diesel can set for years and still start and run with the fuel it has the tank. Gasoline generators can gum up the carb and the fuel can go bad in the tank unless you exercise them on a monthly basis. (Which we all say we will do but it just seems we don't). So unless you go with a propane powered generator you can have a no start situation at the worst time. Which is why most commercially available units are powered by propane.

 

[212sparky]

Best way to calculate you're load is turn on you're winter loads and put a amp meter on your service. Then do out with summer loads and factor for the largest load and add 5-10%. That would give worst case scenario draw with no load management.

 

[Isaac-1]

To follow up on the last suggestion, some newer digital electric meters will show information about KW draw, including things like instant draw and 5 minute average, etc. Of course there is also the old fashion meters, but they can be hard to read. Either way with it being in the winter you should do your load testing on a cold day, also you need to be aware of the type of electric heater you have, older ones tended to be all or nothing, some newer units may have variable output (and therefore variable electrical load) depending on temperature. For future lurkers when measuring loads in the summer time while running air conditioning you should do it on a hot day, as air conditioning compressors operate at higher head pressures on hot days which in turn means higher amp draw.

Ike

 

[quickfarms]

One thing to take into consideration on which genset to get is standby time. A diesel can set for years and still start and run with the fuel it has the tank. Gasoline generators can gum up the carb and the fuel can go bad in the tank unless you exercise them on a monthly basis. (Which we all say we will do but it just seems we don't). So unless you go with a propane powered generator you can have a no start situation at the worst time. Which is why most commercially available units are powered by propane.

While diesel does last a lot longer than gasoline it does have issues during long term storage. Algae will grow in diesel and clog the injectors and or pump. Additionally condensation in diesel fuel can seize injector pumps and injectors on the small diesels used in generators.

Gasoline engines last better in storage if you run them dry.

 

[edgephoto]

While diesel does last a lot longer than gasoline it does have issues during long term storage. Algae will grow in diesel and clog the injectors and or pump. Additionally condensation in diesel fuel can seize injector pumps and injectors on the small diesels used in generators.

Gasoline engines last better in storage if you run them dry.

This is one reason to periodically run your equipment, no matter what it is. Most residential backup generators are propane or natural gas powered. The fuel does not go bad in storage and does not gum up injectors, carburetors, etc.

You can store diesel long term but you have to watch for algae and water.

I do not have natural gas in my area. I heat my house with oil. My storage tank is 275 gallons in the basement. My plan is to store no more than 15-30 gallons of #2 oil in the garage. Then if I need more I can use my heating oil. I plan to add a pipe to my oil tank and a pump so I can fill jerry cans in the cellar and carry it out to the generator. Right now I have 30 gallons of gasoline in the garage for my gasoline powered generator. I do not like having that much gasoline laying around. It is also a pain to keep track of. I add stabilizer to it so in theory it is good for up to 2 years. I tag the cans with the purchase date and after 12 months if I have not used it I pour it into one of the cars and then refill the supply.

Once I get my MEP-002a home and tested I will reduce my gasoline supply to 10 gallons. Then I will use the portable gasoline generator for short outages. The MEP will be for extended outages. We seem to be good for one long outage per year.

 

[Isaac-1]

A bit about diesel:

It is a LOT safer to store than gasoline, as it is hard to get diesel to ignite under normal condition without vaporizing it, try dropping a lit match in a small puddle of diesel some time and see what happens. (don't try this with gasoline)

It can be stored for long periods of time in a SEALED airtight container (55 gallon drum), the primary issue with water contamination is when diesel is stored in a container that breathes, condensation forms and with diesel being lighter than water, the condensation sinks to the bottom and gives algae a place to grow, this can be solved by adding algaecide to the fuel (just note exhaust fumes containing algaecide can be toxic). There are reports of people successfully using 50+ year old diesel that has been stored in drums.

 

[edgephoto]

A bit about diesel:

It is a LOT safer to store than gasoline, as it is hard to get diesel to ignite under normal condition without vaporizing it, try dropping a lit match in a small puddle of diesel some time and see what happens. (don't try this with gasoline)

It can be stored for long periods of time in a SEALED airtight container (55 gallon drum), the primary issue with water contamination is when diesel is stored in a container that breathes, condensation forms and with diesel being lighter than water, the condensation sinks to the bottom and gives algae a place to grow, this can be solved by adding algaecide to the fuel (just note exhaust fumes containing algaecide can be toxic). There are reports of people successfully using 50+ year old diesel that has been stored in drums.

You do not want water in your diesel. The algae makes a mess of fuel systems. if I didn't have a heating oil tank I would fill a 55 gallon drum and seal it. I will either get a 15 or 30 gallon drum and seal it for emergency use. Then beyond that I would tap my heating oil tank. The lowest I run the heating oil is about 100 gallons left.