Who knows a knowledgeable Hercules Parts Counter Person?

[bottleworks]

The 1458 Filter oil filter does have an anti drain back valve. But that looks to be the only "upgrade" by using this filter.

http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51458

 

[jatonka]

Don't know if anyone is still watching this thread, but..... I have the spin-on adaptors now for the multifuel engine, they do take a 1458 napa and it is anti drain back. I will be making the adaptors for anyone who wants them by April,2007 JT out

 

[nickd]

Please put a set aside for me!! Thanks John.

 

[cranetruck]

I may be willing to try a set if the price is right. If the filters are anti-drain back then the oil cooler will stay filled as well.

 

[nickd]

I happen to have the primary spin on adapter Jatonka had available at the last NJ show in Dover. It has been on my truck since the day after I purchased it. Any reservations about its durability during off road conditions can be put to rest. The adapter is made up from a solid one piece chunk of solid aluminum that spins onto the existing filter base using NAPA filters. If you ever had to change your stock filter in the field you will appreciate the spin on convenience. It is installed easily and can be removed and replaced with the stock canister should you swap trucks. I look foward to having spin on oil filters on my truck in April.

 

[devilman96]

I disagree with that 1458 filter being used on a LD, LDT, or LDS... Even in parallel your still under rated for the oil systems GPM. Yes it will fit, yes it will work... but its going to bypass a heap more oil than it should and the element's are going to see a lot more pressure on them than they are designed for which is going to give you poor filtration performance.

 

[red devils dude]

devilman96 how much oil can the 1458 handle?
jatonka keep us updated on price and availability.

 

[luapmonn]

wix fiter spec's http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51458

 

[JDToumanian]

Devilman,
All the filters listed below are supposedly (according to Baldwin's site) equivalent to a Napa 1458. Are any of them better filters or are they all under rated for the deuce? I couldn't find ratings for any of them online. I wondered if there was a bigger or better filter that would fit the 1458's base... Maybe Baldwin's tech support would know?

Jon


ACDELCO PF938
AGCO 30-3068145
AMERICAN PARTS 2075
ARROW MFG. CO. 199982
BALDWIN FILTERS BT124
BIG A 2075
BIG A 92458
CHAMPION LABORATORIES PH444
CARQUEST 85458
DELUXE 393
DONALDSON P550714
FLEETGUARD LF3465
FLEETGUARD LF3479
FLEETRITE LFR83465
FLEETRITE LFR83479
FRAM PH44
FRAM X238548
GENERAL MOTORS CORP. 25011132
GENERAL MOTORS CORP. 25011133
HASTINGS PREMIUM FILTERS LF433
HERCULES 40-0000-406
KRALINATOR L114
LIEBHERR 1158030
LUBER-FINER PH444
MOTORCRAFT FL404
NAPA GOLD 1458
OLIVER 303068145
PUROLATOR PER219
PUROLATOR L40219
TECHNICAL FILTRATION BSL3479
WAUKESHA 199982
WHITE 30-3068145
WHITE 40-0000406
WIX 51458
WIX 51766
WOODGATE WGL3479

 

[red devils dude]

manual says LDT flows 22GPM (at rated speed) of oil so the Wix-NAPA 1458 filter should just be able to handle the flow.

 

[devilman96]

Part Number: 51458
UPC Number: 765809514584
Principal Application: Case, Oliver and White Farm Tractors, Drott, Hercules, Hobart, Michigan Equipment
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 8.078
Outer Diameter Top: 4.285
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 7/8-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 13-19
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 450
Max Flow Rate: 11-13 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 16

Flow and pressure have to be taken into consideration in order to get filtration performance.

FIRC the LDT is 28 GPM at 1700RPM... I might be a gallon or two off but I know thats really close to it and obviously the higher the RPM the more flow you get... The Wix 51458 is rated at 11-13 GPM so your best performance is 22-26 GPM with two filters in series which is ok for lower RPM but really not adequate for higher RPM ranges.

In designing hydraulic applications you generally want your filtration capabilities to exceed your systems flow capacity, or at least match it up as best as you can; If not you end up building unnecessary pressure and over run the bypass, or even exceed the bypass's capability. In this case the trucks bypass would kick in and take care of the slack but you really want to keep the bypassed oil as low as possible as it is obviously unfiltered. Another affect of over powering the filter is you begin to exceed the filters filtration quality... Hydraulic pressure will force a larger micron object through a element of smaller rated size and / or simple collapse the element in on it's self.

Being that John is making the bases it would be easy enough to change the external thread size to take a filter large enough to fall within the system performance (1.5-12, 14 or 16 TPI) but then your getting back into the commercial filter sizes, with that in mind you hit another wall because with few exceptions things like bypass and anti drain back valves don't come in commercial filters sizes and the few that do have them get to be quite expensive and offer very little if anything in improved filtration performance over the stock filters.

Also... anti drain back will help fix the issue of contamination draining back into the oil pan but is still not going to improve oil pressure on start up as the system will still drain forward through the block with a upside down filter.

 

[cranetruck]

....
Also... anti drain back will help fix the issue of contamination draining back into the oil pan but is still not going to improve oil pressure on start up as the system will still drain forward through the block with a upside down filter.

Very little will drain "forward" since the exit opening of the oil cooler is on top.

The oil pump output is 22gpm and the filters are connected in parallel for a max capacity of 26 gpm.

 

[jatonka]

You fellas are pretty much handling this discussion. I sometimes think I oughta keep my darned ideas to myself. I don't Know much, but I think alot. And I only try to make things easier for myself and those who want to try my ideas. I am certainly never going to get rich off my ideas but I do appreciate the feeling of having pleased someone in this hobby with a good idea that they were able to use. Now, enough on my philosophy, here is a fact: Oliver tractor company and later White tractor company used our 478 cubic inch LDT engines in 2 models of tractors that had to live their lives on farms working, not mostly sitting in an Armory or Military Depot. They used the NAPA 1458 anti drain back, bypassing full flow filters I am working with, I also have the AGCO and Baldwin and Hastings filter #s available. So you guys do the technical talk, I'll use my adaptors and the 1458s and I'll let you know when something blows up. JT out

 

[luapmonn]

I would be willing to bet that that 22gpm is freeflow capacity and that a sound engine uses a percentage of that capacity. In designing an oil system you would want flow capacity to exceed the amount needed to lube the engine.

 

[OD_Coyote]

I would be interested in a set of spin-on adapters as well.

 

[cranetruck]

I would be willing to bet that that 22gpm is freeflow capacity and that a sound engine uses a percentage of that capacity. In designing an oil system you would want flow capacity to exceed the amount needed to lube the engine.

According to TM 9-2815-210-34-2-2 page 196, the flow test is performed at a pressure of 110 psi and is 22gpm minimum. The pump rpm is 3,420, the oil is 30W at a temp of 200 to 210°F.

 

[m139h2otruck]

Last Sunday I saw one of John's oil filter adapters at the Lowell show and talked to John about the "Project". I believe (just opinion here) that he is on the right track, based on the past use of the dual WIX 1458 filters as used by Oliver/White. They were the licensed builder of this engine (MAN design) and I really don't think Oliver/White would have under sized their system, especially since they were taking the mil spec engine and reusing it for the farm tractor and needed to redesign the filter system to a spin-on can anyway.

Costs to complete such a project for just "hobby" use is greater than most people think, so don't be surprised if the adapters are a little higher priced than what we all think they should be. John is a great guy, very helpful and totally committed to the full use of our "hobby" trucks and equipment. How many of us have researched, built and marketed at great prices parts (seat covers, fuel filter adapters, FRP cab tops, etc.) like John has? He is more than willing to fab and install his adapters on his "working" trucks and do the destructive testing for the benefit of all of us.
Thanks

 

[jatonka]

I have the adaptors installed on my JATonka 4x4 conversion truck. I am using Napa 1458 spin-on filters. My time from engine start to built oil pressure with cannister filters was 19 seconds at 22 degrees F. My engine start to built oil pressure time now is 2 to 3 seconds. I removed the filters after draining the base drains and did not get a terrible mess all over. I reinstalled filters and restarted engine. start time to built pressure was 14 seconds. Every start time to built pressure since has been 2 to 3 seconds at most. I'm having some more sets built for my trucks.

 

[OD_Coyote]

jatonka - When do you expect to start taking orders?

 

[OD_Coyote]

jatonka - When do you expect to start taking orders?