Why FreightTrain was banned...

[Boatcarpenter]

"Paranoia strikes deep.
Into your minds it will creep.
It starts when you're always afraid.
Step outta line, The Man'll come
And take you away....."

Buffalo Springfield circa 1968.
BC

 

[Recovry4x4]

All little buddy had to do was heed the numerous warnings. Being a non-conformant rarely yields positive results. He even had a chance to mend bridges and didn't.

 

[steelsoldiers]

Jon is my friend and is a good guy...that being said he is a person and has issues as we all do. Some times these issues cause us to act out in different ways.
I'm not trying to excuse his actions but there seems to be some amount of zealotry among a few moderators.
We all have positions we are passionate about and sometimes we post an item that we think (right or wrong) may be of interest to our fellow members.
Jumping all over someone for a small indescrestion can snowball out of control and people end up with hurt feelings. (The guy asking about ammo sales the other day is a case.)
When you ban someone permanently from the site you just further incite the persons desire to "teach you a lesson".
I have seen some of the PM's and emails between Jon and other SS mods and all I'm going to say is that Jon had some valid points.
Did you know that the mods can read and archive your PMs?
Myself and Bama Lady had some personal experience with private communication being violated. I did not make an issue of it but I did not like it.

If you have that ability it should have been conspicuously posted.

I do not like any form of big brotherism, goobement or private.

I also understand the position that Chris has to take on content...there are a lot of offical eyes mining data these days.....they use software that seeks out key words and phrases.
If you need the formula for something illegal or borderline there are plenty of places on the net to find it. If you think the current administration is doing the wrong thing there are places for that too. But sometimes you just want to preach to the choir and let you friends in on some daft goobement policy.
A little leeway would not hurt.

But the bottom line is that this is a private site and (I assume) a profit driven site (if only to support the site). I have no problem with that and will obey the rules.

Do I think that Jon should have been permantly banned??
No...maybe a "time out" first with a probationary period.
But I don't own the site and the owners can do what they want.....for good or ill.

Richard, thanks for your perspective. FT is one of your good friends and I understand your need to defend him. I don't fault you for that.

FT may be a good guy at heart, but unfortunately he didn't like to follow the rules. He was given multiple warnings before being permanently banned from the site. I am a patient guy, but my patience eventually runs out. He was given 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances. It became apparent to me that he was never going to play it straight.

Membership is a privilege here, not a right. The rules are easy to follow if you want to stick around. I believe in the freedom of speech on this site to a point, but ultimately I will censor anything that I think is detrimental to SS.

Mods cannot read anyone's PM's. I probably have that ability as an Admin, but I have never done it and couldn't tell you how to do it if I wanted to. I will always respect a member's privacy so long as they are not a known felon, terrorist, whatever.

 

[tractor]

Chris I had one mod tell me he reads pms. I won't say who it is or even pm it to anyone even you because it was between us and I am a man of my word

 

[NEIOWA]

Not to imply that there was not such an option, but over on tank-net.org they have some specific rules that are interesting and seem to work well.

Duplicate accounts are a strict ROE violation.

Misbehavior and violation of normal ROE can result in suspension of accounts for a week, two or longer.

Permanent bans are entertained only for clear/repeated violations of the ROE.

Moderations of posts are done with an account that is "Moderator". It is never known to be one staffer and is always meant to be based on an agreed upon decision by several members where there is a moderation of a post by a member.

Violations of ROE where there are things stated which should not be done so, say violations of current Military OPSEC rules are pointed out to the offending member by Moderator with a requirement to correct the posting within 24 hours. Failure to do so is dealt with and the moderator make the edit.

The system seems to work VERY well, allows for some heated discussions and yet still maintains a VERY high signal to noise ratio.

Tank-net also has a Free Fire Zone where those off topic threads are allowed. Not anything goes but "segregates" such topics and "out of the way" of those focused solely on the main focus of the site. Not all subject are political. The "conversations" here does not quite get to the same point.

I think a very good option which I'd recommend would be a Major heading/section of a "FREEFIRE ZONE"..

 

[rat4spd]

Wow and all this time I thought Rat4Spd was joking.

Or maybe it was and it just came true. If that's the case he should joke about me winning the lottery!

FT - if you're reading this under an another name - Knock it off and behave so you can come on back and chat man!

Dang, that was an inside joke.......really, but that's all it was.

 

[ragedracer]

No, Moderators cannot and do not read your Private Messegess. We do not have that ability. Fact.

Maybe you don't. But the fact is, with the software on this board, "Administrator" accounts all have the ability to read PM's. In some versions of this software, Mods can be given that ability as well.

Fact.

 

[ida34]

I am glad the mods are on top of things. I like a clean forum. If I want to talk about other stuff then I can start my own forum.

 

[ABN173]

As a military service member I swore an oath that "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I mention this Oath now for one reason.....as a comparison, While Steel Soldiers is social site and not a government entity I find there some similarities. For example The Army is for the majority a awesome organization (as is this site) but that does not mean I always agree with every policy made above my pay grade but I do have to support those policies. This situation with FT is exactly that.... above my pay grade. I enjoyed chatting with FT online and considered him a friend but I knew he had some skewed political views but that's ok since it is a free country. Does that mean this site does not need to enforce rules NO. However I do want to point out that even guys that have been discharged from the military under "Dishonorable" or "less honorable conditions" are sometimes given a 2nd chance and allowed to re-enter the service after a period of time. These are case by case exceptions that get made by the Department of The Army (or whatever branch of service) Perhaps after some cooling off the Admins may consider such an exception for FT?

That being said Chris, Mike, DH (and all the other mods) I love this site and thank you for making it what it is! I'll support your decisions even if I don't always agree.

Dale

 

[Alredneck]

Well is it me or does anyone not recognize that this site is freely open to the public? As anyone can view any of the info established on this forum without being a member. So FT doesnt have to keep making up names to vie the content, he just cant post a response to said content. I talked to him the other day and I am sure hes reading these words but am not sure if he has another account or not. ( our conversation was on the phone ) Could he of cooled it yea. But we are intitled to our own opinions, if that opinion didnt fit a rule delete the post. Not everyone is going to agree with what everyone else says. I dont agree with certain thing that have happened in the past, said my remarks then got over it. If this is the problem with FT then I can understand banning him for a lil while, but there are two sides to each coin. Sometime we need sometime to coll off and get over whats ribbing us. Now I dont have a problem with anybody here or that used to be with us. Just venting a lil.

 

[mangus580]

Ok, I am going to clarify a few things here...

1. Moderators can NOT view your Private Messages
2. Admins 'might' be able to as a function of the software (as listed above) but I have never gone looking there for it.
3. I personally, can DIG through the database, quite literally. This is a VERY difficult process as the messages are matched to an ID # which then has to be matched to a user. Have I done so?? YES... when warranted. Like searching for that criminal Darrell, or when I suspected a user was FT. What I did in that event, was search for specific keywords in the database and try to match them up with a confirmation of what I suspected.
4. I do NOT go look at PM's for fun.
5. Moderators and Admins CAN reasonably easily see the 'private messages' in the chat box. Reading the 'private' part of the chat log isnt really intentional so much as its how the software is built. It intermixes the private in with the public. Sadly due to some members behaviors, we sometimes have to go look in those logs. Even me & chris learned the hard way, someone is always watching

Something that is very important to remember here, this is a private site... or more so, its the internet. Do you really feel anything you say is truly private? I'm not saying that me & the other mods like to spend our spare time laughing about what is said privately on the site. This is not done. Its rarely even looked at. I have only looked at the 'private messages' from the forum in the 2 instances listed above. I hate doing it, its painful, takes a bunch of time. Sadly, some people seem to enjoy forcing me to waste my time, take time from my family, friends, and other obligations.

I hope this makes a little sense to everyone.

 

[N1265]

I personally don't have a problem with mods having the ability to read ANYTHING I write, Including a PM. And if Chris says the mods do not have this ability, I have no reason to doubt him. ( Nor do I have any reason to doubt any other post made on this subject )

But if he should be mistaken... I think it would be common curtsy to make it common knowledge...


I also like the " No Drama " smiley.

 

[rat4spd]

It's Chris's house, and his rules. I can respect that.

 

[powerhouseduece]

I would like this as a smiley option as well...

 

[wreckerman893]

Doghead and Mangus....I am going to say this and then I will refrain from further comment (unless I feel the need to defend my good name and honor).
Me and Bama Lady had a private coversation via PM (this was last year on the old forum)...the next day an (for now) un-named member made a very rude remark that could only have been brought about by knowing the exact nature of our conversation.
I remember PMing either Chris or Mangus and expressing my concern. I was given the same answer as Mangus posted above.
If I did not know what I was talking about I would not have made those statements.
Someone can and has viewed PM's....I suggest you do some house cleaning up top if you are as concerned about this site as you say you are.
I do not like being called a liar and I do not suffer fools gladly.

 

[Srjeeper]

F w i w

When you enter another persons house (SS) you are expected to respect and follow that persons rules and wishes. If you knowingly disregard and disrespect those rules, you can darn well expect to be dealt with in whatever manner the owner sees fit.

The quest (FT) broke the rules on more than one occasion and was dealt with as Chris & Mike (this houses owners) saw fit.

FT put himself in this situation for whatever reason and must now suffer the consequences.

Time to man up, take your medicine and the rest of us need to move on and remember we are in (SS) house.

 

[DAS]

Please remember this....He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone...and also..the truth will always fine the light.....from the good BOOK.... just my two cents,DAS

 

[DUG]

Well is it me or does anyone not recognize that this site is freely open to the public? As anyone can view any of the info established on this forum without being a member. So FT doesnt have to keep making up names to vie the content, he just cant post a response to said content. I talked to him the other day and I am sure hes reading these words but am not sure if he has another account or not. ( our conversation was on the phone ) Could he of cooled it yea. But we are intitled to our own opinions, if that opinion didnt fit a rule delete the post. Not everyone is going to agree with what everyone else says. I dont agree with certain thing that have happened in the past, said my remarks then got over it. If this is the problem with FT then I can understand banning him for a lil while, but there are two sides to each coin. Sometime we need sometime to coll off and get over whats ribbing us. Now I dont have a problem with anybody here or that used to be with us. Just venting a lil.

The "conversations" portion on da house isn't viewable by the public. You have to be logged in.

 

[ida34]

Dealing with the law the term is reasonable expectation of privacy. I do not and will never expect any privacy on a website and the PM feature. This is data on a server open to the public. I even do not trust my yahoo account past a certain point. If I was going to divulge the location of where I buried the body I would surely not use any electronic media to do it. If you want privacy exchange email addresses and handle business off the site.

Main point follows:


Do not use PM on SS for secure or sensitive communications.

The PMs here are like having a conversation in a room next to a public hallway. Someone can always be listening at the door. This is the nature of internet forums not SS rules.

 

[littlebob]

Dealing with the law the term is reasonable expectation of privacy. I do not and will never expect any privacy on a website and the PM feature. This is data on a server open to the public. I even do not trust my yahoo account past a certain point. If I was going to divulge the location of where I buried the body I would surely not use any electronic media to do it. If you want privacy exchange email addresses and handle business off the site.

Main point follows:


Do not use PM on SS for secure or sensitive communications.

The PMs here are like having a conversation in a room next to a public hallway. Someone can always be listening at the door. This is the nature of INTERNET forums not SS rules.

I looked through the posts and I like this one to reply to.

The "MAIN POINT" is what we try(or should be) tell our teenagers about the INTERNET and the fact that if its not face to face, someone, somewhere will have access to it. Although I will miss FT, I understand the sites reasons for doing it.
If someone bucks the rules and have been warned a few times it reminds me of my teenagers that like to keep me busy wasting time, we could spending together having fun and enjoying the time we have with each other instead of arguing over who's in charge.
I hope that everyone that reads this post spends the time to read the previous replies before posting, as there are many great points.