Why so little power?

[randini]

Ok, I am new to this whole MV thing, but I am a good amature mechanic. I am amazed with the Multi-fuel engine. 465 CI, 22 to 1 compression and a Turbo! How can this make less than 200hp?? and less than 400 lb/ft torque?? What gives? Poor heads maybe?
There are much smaller diesel engines that have tons more output than a multi-fuel. It sound like this is a older design engine. Is that ALL it is? What am I missing?
Thanks

 

[Varyag]

I have never really questioned why the engine is so low in power, I have just kind of accepted it. The truck does move pretty good on its 134 hp though.

 

[clinto]

1. The military doesn't want it's drivers wheeling high hp trucks-they break axles and u joints and transmissions. They achieve their capability through gearing, not HP.

2. It's a design from the 1950's.

3. The turbo is only there for emissions. Do a search on SS for "clean air kit".

4. The 5 ton multifuel does have higher output (app. 190-the exact figure escapes me now).

5. Do a search on SS for this stuff-it's been discussed quite in depth and there is some fantastic reading material out there.

 

[yetti96]

Gearing makes up for the lack of modern-day power and the thing was designed and built for longevity and ease of repair.

 

[wreckerman893]

The multi-fuel was built to replace the gasser. Diesels have torque whereas gassers have HP.

In the case of the 5 ton the (larger HP) multi was soon replaced by the 250 Cummins in the 800 series because the bigger truck needed more torque.

It is possible to wring HP out of diesels but you do so at the cost of longevity.

The tractor pullers used the White multi for a few years and got a lot of performance out of them......but they didn't get a lot of runs out of them before they came unglued.

There have been a lot of threads on increasing HP in the deuce.

I have a deuce tractor and I would love to have more speed on hills but I realize the engine has it's limitations. When I am going up a hill I just find a gear it will pull in and bear it.

I have a 200 hp Multi that I may transplant into it but I don't expect a big improvement.

By the way...the turbo was added to the multi's to clean up the exhaust...not to add power....thank the EPA for that.

HP cost money, a resource I am lacking, so I just have accepted the deuce for what it is and embrace it.

 

[zout]

seen that tractor up a pretty slick grade - torque up the "wazo" and cranking all the way.

Got to the hill all the same and could have been pulling 10,000 lbs behind him - matter of fact all the folks got to the top of the grade - just a little slower - but still to the top all the same.
Come to think of it - being there were only 24 hrs in that day - no one would have saved any time getting there any faster and having as much fun as we did.
Choosing the right gear and matching the rpm for that gear - that little engine does quite a bit of work.

 

[TexAndy]

The multi-fuel was built to replace the gasser. Diesels have torque whereas gassers have HP.
...

I'm not an engineer, but that doesn't sound right...

I thought torque was the amount of force while HP was a unit of power, aka work applied over time?

 

[Burgerboy13]

Also high HP diesel engines where not around in the 1950's. Big rigs in the 1950's only had about 250hp as well. The technology just did not exist. Back then they reallied on gearing to get moving.

 

[JasonS]

I'm not an engineer, but that doesn't sound right...

I thought torque was the amount of force while HP was a unit of power, aka work applied over time?

You are mostly correct. Power over time is energy (ie. kW*hour).

 

[armytruck63]

More power lets you get the same job done in less time. This is why a truck with more power will go up a hill faster, but even the lower HP truck will still make it up the hill, it just takes more time (probably in a lower gear).

 

[that1028guy]

HP is an imaginary number. When you dyno a engine it reads Tourque. Its math that figures hp. Tourque does all the work. Look at the new duramax its only 400hpp, but 760ish lbs.

Speed cost money, how fast can you afford to go?

 

[bassetdeuce]

HP is an imaginary number. When you dyno a engine it reads Tourque. Its math that figures hp. Tourque does all the work. Look at the new duramax its only 400hpp, but 760ish lbs.

Speed cost money, how fast can you afford to go?

You can get a Cummins ISX in 400-600hp tune with 1400-2000lbs of torque. It will outpull a duramax, but it might be a little too big for a chebby pickup.

 

[JasonS]

HP is an imaginary number. When you dyno a engine it reads Tourque. Its math that figures hp. Tourque does all the work. Look at the new duramax its only 400hpp, but 760ish lbs.

Speed cost money, how fast can you afford to go?

The ONLY part that you got right is that most dynos measure torque. Those that have a load cell mathematically calculate horsepower from torque and rpm. However, you CAN measure HP directly. One way is to couple an engine to a generator, connect it to a load, measure the power dissipated (watts), and convert to horsepower (1HP=745.7W). We had one of these in an OLD laboratory.

HP is NOT an imaginary number. Torque does NOT indicate or imply that work has been done. Torque combined with rpm IS defined as work (work=force*distance). Horsepower is one the units used to quantify work. Watts is another.

If you still think that torque does work, go and try to buy a 100ft*lb light bulb.

 

[bigugh20]

Also compromises with power were surely made in order to provide the "multi fuel" capability. Compromises to the piston and combustion chamber, injection hardware and so on.

 

[randini]

why so little power?

Dont get me wrong, I admire simple machines. And resent all the new computer controled vehicles. I never meant to bad-mouth the Deuce. I think they are great. I really want a Deuce ASAP, and admire them for just what they are (and what they are not).
I have constructed many gas engines, and it just seemed there should be more output. I have a 1960 ford 352 gas engine that has more HP/Torque than the 465 diesel. The other thing is that I have never worked on anything but gassers, so this is all new to me. I am just learning. I want to thank all of you for your willingness to share of your knowledge. Thanks!

 

[papabear]

Perzactly....it's the classic case of the rabbit and the turtle.

The newer stuff may be fancier...more comfortable etc....but when the balls are against the wall...or the rubber meets the cross country...is it better?

 

[SixSpeed]

Has anyone mentioned fuel economy? Was the military concerned with this? I am always surprised by the figures. If someone told me a 15,000LB truck with 6 axles and 10 tires with probably 60% drivetrain loss with a 478cubic inch engine got 10+MPG I would think they were mad.

 

[TexAndy]

We need pics of the six-axled vehicle of which you speak. Now.

 

[papabear]

Uncle Sam gets a break on fuel...no fed/state taxes....so maybe a few cents per gallon

 

[cranetruck]

A lot of the power available in "new" engines can only be tapped for a limited amount of time, useful for acceleration, hills etc, but not for continuous service. The multifuel can run at full rated power forever.
Your average civy car only needs about 35-40 hp to run at highway speed, the rest of the power is for acceleration, which is what the consumer demands.
I calculated once, based on fuel consumption, that the deuce needs about 100 hp to run at 50-55 mph, so 140 hp is more than enough and the excellent mpg comes from the efficiency of the combustion process (MAN patent).

I love my multifuelers.