Why the Deuce Doesn't Have These I'll Never Know!

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Stumps-- those were not insurmountable mudholes-- they were 85% water.... The problem was simply that one side had more traction than the other and slippage occurred. Thus allowing all the power go to the one side of the differential with no traction. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WvJWwTXSU&list=PL6C3B332FB6A6361A[/media]

Here's my truck doing the same thing... Now with lockers I would have been out...

 

[Recovry4x4]

If I had lockers at my house, I would be outside installing them and prepping for the video instead of lurking in the basement behind the computer trying to convince an entire forum that short of devine intervetion, nothing moves without lockers. Lock that sucker up and bring it to a rally. I'm sure we can find a few spots that would challenge the Duke.

 

[doghead]

Since installing lockers, have you done any serious off-roading, or is this still all educated speculation?

Please share some video of your awesome off-roading.

 

[stumps]

Stumps-- those were not insurmountable mudholes-- they were 85% water.... The problem was simply that one side had more traction than the other and slippage occurred. Thus allowing all the power go to the one side of the differential with no traction. ...Here's my truck doing the same thing... Now with lockers I would have been out...

Nor were the ones that stuck my Bobcat. All it takes is slime on the bottom of the puddle, and you are stuck. No traction -> stuck.

-Chuck

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

If I had lockers at my house, I would be outside installing them and prepping for the video instead of lurking in the basement behind the computer trying to convince an entire forum that short of devine intervetion, nothing moves without lockers. Lock that sucker up and bring it to a rally. I'm sure we can find a few spots that would challenge the Duke.

I have only one of my three right now... So I'm waiting for the complete set( Thursday they arrive)... And good M35A3 to go up for sale-- Remember I've got to have my CTIS... I'm a patient man-- I waited this long for the lockers a few more months for the CTIS System won't matter to me.

I'm actually sitting at my kitchen table watching my dinner cook... I was out working all day on my truck as it is. I'm rebuilding the front axle-- it needed breaks, king pin bushings, and new boots. I know you might say why? Well I want to drive it in the Fourth July Parade as always. It is fun. Plus I'm going to give the axles to my middle brother ( rebuilt and fully installed with lockers) he helps me out with my truck and I have fewer expanses than he does so I do this for him. So that is why I'm waiting on the putting in the Air Lockers. Also I need parts to come in from Clark Truck Parts. Oil Seals in the axle.

That's the story...

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Since installing lockers, have you done any serious off-roading, or is this still all educated speculation?

Please share some video of your awesome off-roading.

Cannot I just bought them last week... but I've used Unimogs with Air Lockers so I know what they can do.

 

[drgreg]

Remember, any good off-roader can get ANY truck stuck. That's the fun part, finding the limitations.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I would be interested in the cost/benefit analysis. Myy deuce cost me $1177. Adding 3 air lockers pushes it over 4 grand or 4 times the price. I doubt that it will go 4 times as deep in the weeds. A better investment for me was a winch and recovery gear. I already have the skills to use the equipment and I am keenly aware of its limitations.
I was able to assemble a winch kit for just over $200. I can have tons of fun, recover myself and others and still have change for other needs. I'm not competing with anyone offroad, just looking to have some fun. If lockers were cheaper I would use them again for sure but at the current price, they can't return the investment.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I would be interested in the cost/benefit analysis. Myy deuce cost me $1177. Adding 3 air lockers pushes it over 4 grand or 4 times the price. I doubt that it will go 4 times as deep in the weeds. A better investment for me was a winch and recovery gear. I already have the skills to use the equipment and I am keenly aware of its limitations.
I was able to assemble a winch kit for just over $200. I can have tons of fun, recover myself and others and still have change for other needs. I'm not competing with anyone offroad, just looking to have some fun. If lockers were cheaper I would use them again for sure but at the current price, they can't return the investment.

Will it ever pay itself off? Probably not. So is it practical as an investment. I would say no. It is however, fun, and that is why I want it. After all I'm hot rodding the beast. Hot Rods are never practical investments. Plus, I would really like to go to South America and try my luck out in the Rain Forests in like Belize or Panama. I think it would be an awesome trip to take.

Winches are great. I think I'm going to have to get one. Because the more traction you get the more likely you are to test out where the edge is.

And the CTIS is for going to Martha's Vineyard... I want to take my baby to the Beach! But the baby doesn't swim in salt water. I just like the convenience of the CTIS at the beach. Who wants to air down, 6 or 10 tires that takes time.

 

[Srjeeper]

R_E,

So far the only thing of yours that's done any running has been your internet mouth. You post videos of others trucks doing, or as you prefer to put it 'not doing this or that', but I've yet to see any of you or your truck doing anything, anywhere at any time.

How bout you take this oportunity to either "put up or shut up" until you have something other than hot air to share!

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

R_E,

So far the only thing of yours that's done any running has been your internet mouth. You post videos of others trucks doing, or as you prefer to put it 'not doing this or that', but I've yet to see any of you or your truck doing anything, anywhere at any time.

How bout you take this oportunity to either "put up or shut up" until you have something other than hot air to share!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WvJWwTXSU[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7-HUq75GqU[/media]

This is my truck and myself out driving... I'm the short guy in the t-shirt... More videos will follow once I get the lockers installed.

 

[jbingvtx]

Hey R_E, I really don't think anyone has a problem with your ideas for improvement...just the way you convey them. I stumbled across that vid of the truck trials that you posted on youtube while looking for something else and instantly got sucked in. They have some amazing machines! I hope that your ideas come together I'd like to see a truck as you described in action.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

If you read the original post it starts of with me saying what I think the truck needs to be "hot rodded". I would still like many of those features but feel that the modifications to the design would be too costly. For example I'm pretty sure an Oshkosh 55000 series Transfer case as cool as it might be is just too big for the truck. The Fuller 6spd medium duty transmission would be nice, I've often contemplated on how one would squeeze it into the frame. I think it would make driving the truck on and off road a lot nicer. It is after all fully synchronized. The International DT-466 is still the power plant I would use if I did decide to repower the truck. But lately after really going all over my truck and researching the LDT and LDS series engines with Hercules and other after market places. I think I can get about 200-210hp and 480-520ft-lbs safely out of the power plant. That is after I balance and tune the bigger LDS injectors, add a new high flow Air Box and Filter 520CFM or better, tune the Injector Pump. I would still like to stick MW-50 injectors on the manifold but I cannot figure out where the injectors would just yet. The manifold looks like it would need serious modifications to the system. I've thought about Propane injectors as well in concert with the MW-50-- but put that out of my mind unless I want to see a flaming connecting rod exit my hood and leave the atmosphere for the moon. So I've decided on the Air-Lockers (purchased), CTIS ( saving up for the M35A3), and Modest custom work on the Injector Pump and Injectors for about 200-210hp. The big question for me right now is Exoskeleton or not for safety purposes. I think I'll hold off on the Exoskeleton for now. Perhaps, later, this will become a truck I only use off-road.. Right now I want to use it still on road. SO I would like it to look some what reasonable in appearance.

I think people got up set because they thought I was bad mouthing their trucks. I'm not. The truck is fine. But the truck is very limited in the cross country aspects of the driving envelop. It is the open differentials that case the issue. Whatever the reason the US Military picked out this type of differential, I think they were mistaken. The Norwegians understood the value of an air-locker in the truck and had AM-General install them in theirs. I just think the US military fell down on this aspect of the design. If they put an air-locker in the truck, they would have had a truck with greater cross country ability and over road capability in adverse weather. Too me the benefits of the Air-Locker system are totally justified with perhaps more maintenance they require under certain circumstances. After all do you really want to be the truck in the convoy that holds up convoy so it can be ambushed? That would be the last place I would want to be. So that is my thinking on the topic.

Weather or not people agree with the benefits of lockers or not-- not really my concern. I think every one can agree that the videos I posted of Gimpy Rob having trouble with that hill would have been nonexistent if Gimpy Rob's truck was fitted out with Air-Lockers from the Military. That is why posted the videos of the Tatra trucks at the truck trials-- those modified trucks in some respects: engines, tires, and bodies but, those drive trains are stock. That's how that Tatra design is from the factory: lockers front and rear between the tandem sets in the 8x8's and all eight wheels have power as well. So you can see how it can climb, drive at an angle, have most of your wheels off the ground, and so and so forth. To me that is what the M35 should have been able to do right out of the military.

after i get done with my M35 Daily Driver mods ( yeah I do daily drive the truck) and rebuild my A2 axles with lockers for my brother and give them to him... I'm saving up for the Tatra 815-7 series truck... Customize the engine 435hp is just not enough-- I need 575hp or better...

 

[Srjeeper]

Thank You

Well R_E, I stand corrected, Thank You, you do have videos of your truck too.

I'll also add they are convincing, in that it's capable of doing everything a stock from the factory deuce should be.

I must be honest though, it looks and sounds like a stock M35A2 with a LDT motor and not the 'Wonder Deuce' you've professed to be building as only you could do.

When will we be privy to that trucks unveiling? Over the years you've made it sound like this was going to be a walk in the park for you to accomplish, but still nothing new and improved.

R_E, understand that Inquiring minds want to know? We are waiting for you to enlighten us less fortunate souls that don't have your unrivaled abilities and knowledge.

Please understand this humble old mans curiousity son.

Ya see, when most of these trucks rolled off the assembly line I was but a young lad in his 20's. Now that I've reached my twilight years, the shear anticipation of seeing a deuce to end all deuces is as tantalizeing a proposition as I'm likely to ever receive at this stage of my life.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Well R_E, I stand corrected, Thank You, you do have videos of your truck too.

I'll also add they are convincing, in that it's capable of doing everything a stock from the factory deuce should be.

I must be honest though, it looks and sounds like a stock M35A2 with a LDT motor and not the 'Wonder Deuce' you've professed to be building as only you could do.

When will we be privy to that trucks unveiling? Over the years you've made it sound like this was going to be a walk in the park for you to accomplish, but still nothing new and improved.

R_E, understand that Inquiring minds want to know? We are waiting for you to enlighten us less fortunate souls that don't have your unrivaled abilities and knowledge.

Please understand this humble old mans curiousity son.

Ya see, when most of these trucks rolled off the assembly line I was but a young lad in his 20's. Now that I've reached my twilight years, the shear anticipation of seeing a deuce to end all deuces is as tantalizeing a proposition as I'm likely to ever receive at this stage of my life.

The only thing stopping me is money-- This year I had a lot to spare so I purchased the ARB Air Lockers. I've also turned up the fuel pump. I need to get the new injectors and have them tuned and balanced along with the Injector Pump.... I haven't done any of this stuff. And those videos I've posted are 2 years old. I've been very busy so I haven't had much time to do anything but drive on the roads.

Also I've been having trouble finding people to go out on the trails with. So I've been stuck with payment. However, things have changed and I'm ready to build my M35A2. So just stay tuned in the next couple of months you'll see it will all becoming together.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Ya' know, what baffles me about this is that this thread began with an implied question "what deuce doesn't have these, I'll never know" - well, maybe the poster doesn't know - but I do, and several other people do, and this information has been published on this forum in the past, as well as in print. It is, as someone pointed out in this thread, simple economics.

However, in reality the question implied was a rhetorical one - that is, it appears the original poster, and some others, instead want to make a case that they are smarter/better automotive designers than were employed by Reo.

I am not saying that the G-742 are the ultimate off-road machine - they are not - nor were they built to be. These trucks in fact were a "interim" general purpose cargo truck design that managed to soldier on for 50 years.

Now, the Reo-design competed against a wholly different design put forward by Studebaker, as well as the GMC design (G-749) - and a Ford design that didn't leave the drawing board.

What all these designs had in common was that they tried to give the customer what was being ordered. That customer was the US Army - not the Russian Army, not the German Army, not some guy who wants a rock-crawler, not some guy who wants a mud buggy.

The guys designing trucks for the supplier's to the Russian Army, British Army, German Army were undoubtedly just as smart and talented as the fellows working for Reo. The guys in the design bureau's for Soviet Army, or the German Army, or TACOM are all also probably equally skilled.....but each had their own priorities in design, be it cargo capacity, weight, fording ability, cost, mobility - thus the specifications given to the truck manufacturer's varied.

Best wishes,
David Doyle

The question wasn't really rhetorical in nature, it was just a question of disbelief. Because essentially the M35 Series trucks were designed to operate in a wide variety of conditions and environments. After all front lines are often not always found in city streets or suburban areas. Many areas are in rugged cross country terrain. Which to me at least suggests that the US Military would want a truck with the ability to equally drive at say 56mph on paved roads in 6x4 configuration and off road at 30mph in 6x6-- and when necessary lock up differentials and go through terrain or travel on roads that are too icy or snowy for the open differentials.

I just think the Russians and Czechs got the formula correct back in the 1960's. They looked at what a truck chassis should have: 1) centralized tire pressure system; 2) selectable differential and inter-axle locks; 3) relatively high horsepower for the time; 4) centralized winch system with fore and aft pulling capacity (the Tatra T-813 series also have left and right side pulling ports); 5) Large well designed tires that work well in Mud, Snow, and Pavement (unlike the US NDT's which are okay in mud, crappy in snow and okay for pavement). This is the formula if I were designing a military I would follow. It would give the truck the best performance off road and on road-- To me that is the goal of a good design.

I like a lot of features in the M35 series trucks. I like the size, the wheel travel is good, the ground height is good, and the simplicity is good overall. I just don't think Air Lockers and more power would have been features that truck should have sacrificed for little or no reason. I don't get this idea of an interim truck... I mean what does that even mean? That is like say I can get by with a straight blade screw driver on all the philps head screws I own so I won't buy one? That is short sided thinking in my opinion. I think the US should have just said okay build the best truck-- after all the truck supposedly cost 56,000 dollars in 1971 and all the technology in it was 20 plus years old at the time. Talk about insanity- paying top dollar for a truck with 20 plus year old technology.

So my post was just about how I plan on fixing the truck like the Military should have done in the 1990's when they produced the A3 trucks. That was a prime time to take a truck rebuild it correctly put the lockers on it, put a better manual gearbox, move the winch into the frame with fore and aft pulling capability. Those are my thoughts on the subject. Now I'll make the truck the way I think they should have made it. And it isn't a mud buggy or rock crawler it is just a truck with the ability to go places that it should have always been able to go.

 

[m16ty]

Rolling_Eudaimonia, lockers are available for your truck. Would they improve the M35s off road capability? Sure! Do most of the individuals on this forum have a need for them? Probably not.

If you want locking differentials in your truck, quit whining to everyone on this forum, and just buy some!

I'll look forward to seeing videos of your truck running circles around everyone else once you get all three lockers installed! Good luck!

Good grief. You get your lockers and let everybody else run open if they want to. I know you think lockers are the greatest thing. We get the point. That's fine with me and most everybody else. There's no need to try convert everybody else into your line of thinking.

When you get this "wonder truck" built post some pics and video. I'd like to see them and will brag on your truck if it turns out good.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Good grief. You get your lockers and let everybody else run open if they want to. I know you think lockers are the greatest thing. We get the point. That's fine with me and most everybody else. There's no need to try convert everybody else into your line of thinking.

When you get this "wonder truck" built post some pics and video. I'd like to see them and will brag on your truck if it turns out good.

I've got them... I've got one in my garage right now-- two more come tomorrow via UPS. All I need now are the A3 Axles and CTIS system. I'll post videos. However, don't you think what really needs to be done is well a demonstration in reality?



I was happy just writing about my plans for the truck. Then I read this and I thought really-- so I figured I would have some fun.

 

[robert c neth]

amazing thread here ,the info was great but after page 1 not responding would have been a better option.i geuss we wait and see what happens .when you get her done there are several money holes around here paying up to a grand if you make it .bring it on and lets see what you got !!!!!!!!!!

 

[doghead]

If you truly want to improve the truck for use at the Cape of Cod(Martha's Vineyard), you need to make it amphibious as well. How embarrassing to arrive on the fairy, as the common folk do...