Winch Help.

[Bmd1384]

So let me first state that I have searched extensively for someone with a similar issue and I am no closer to figuring this problem out then when I started.

Also:
Yes, I have read the TM on how to correctly operate the which.
Yes, there is an appropriate shear pin on the PTO shaft.


The issue:
I have a 1971 deuce with a stock winch, which functions properly in all gears (2 fwd, 1 rev). The problem is no matter how hard I try I cannot get the winch spool to freewheel. The in/out handle on the winch moves, however does not move freely as in a broken shaft. This issue concerns me due to the fact that if the PTO clutch gets knocked into gear by accident it may cause some serious damage due to the winch itself always being in gear.

Possible causes:
1. The previous owner used to operate the winch clutch while the PTO was engaged. which according to everything I have read or heard is a BIG no no!

2. I opened up the plug on the passenger side of the winch and it looks like someone had shoved straight axle greases in the winch housing.


Solutions:
I would Really like to be able to fix this with out having to take the winch off of the truck and open it up. So any possible fixes you guys have I would love to hear.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help!

 

[Lorax]

On my deuce and 5 ton winches, when going both into and out of gear (the handle on the winch, not in the cab), most times I've had to roll the drum back and forth some to get the handle to either engage or release. If there is tension on the drum, the handle may not move freely. The top of the handle should move about 2 inches when it is shifted. Sometimes it'll only move about 1 inch, then rolling the drum some allows it to move the rest of the way.

 

[Haggar]

To be more specific, when you say it can't freewheel... there are two controls on the winch: One is the large clutch engagement level on the top, and the other is the small t-handle to freewheel the drum (be able to pull it out by hand).

Which isn't working for you, I'm guessing the top handle clutch engagement?

Mine won't budge, it seems to be stuck in the engaged position.

For safety, do you have a hinged lock-out plate inside the cab on your PTO lever? That will help to not knock it into gear. Mine also has another hinged lockout plate on the top level on the winch itself, which kept it in the engaged position. But even when I lift that plate, the lever doesn't budge.

So far, I've just used the inside clutch pedal and the t-handle to freespool it. Have winched two heavy trucks out of axle deep mud without issue.

 

[Bmd1384]

It is the clutch engagement handle on the winch that I am having trouble with. I will put the drum lock (t-handle) in the out position and then try to disengage the clutch handle on the winch.

The clutch handle moves a few inches back and forth but it will not disengage the winch.The drum does not budge at all and there is no play to try and wiggle it and disengage the clutch.

I do have a lock out plate on the inside of the cab to lock out the PTO, but things happen and I would rather be safe then sorry.

Besides whats the fun of a Deuce with out something to fix?

 

[fasttruck]

Get a breakdown on the winch clutch (-30 direct support tm) there are roll pins or such that join the parts of the linkage between the handle and the cutch dog together. I have seen where these break and then winch is then permanently in or out. This will require taking the winch apart to repair and the biggest headache associated with that is moving all the bolts that have not been touched in 40 years. Or dried grease on the clutch shaft will retard movement and have to be cleaned off which also means taking the winch down. Also you do have the drum lock disengaged as winch will not spool if that is in.

 

[Marlboro]

Would it be possible your winch brake is either adjusted to tight or rusted up? Mine was seized and i kept breaking shear pins till i found out about the brake. Its on the bottom right side of the winch if your looking at the truck. Think there's 6 or so bolts on the cover... Good luck

 

[Recovry4x4]

The winches are not too complicated. Obviously your's needs some servicing. I would go ahead and pull the winch and break it down. Once complete, you will have the satifaction of better knowing how your winch works and have a serviced functional winch. Is this the only deuce winch you've used? If so might want to try to find another deuce winch owner just to see how far his levers are going, gives you a better feel for yours.

 

[Floridianson]

Check load hold band brake as said and check free wheel screw brake bottom passenger side bottom. Big flat head looking thingy back it all the way out and put some never size on the threads. Kenny has said it before and I agree John Deer corn head grease is ok to use instad of gear lube if you don't want to do seals at this time.

 

[Bmd1384]

I have used other deuce winches, just never paid close attention to them when they are working as they should. Unfortunatly I currently don't know of any around me, anyone around the Albuquerque area with a winch?

I'll try adjusting the brake and freewheel screw, when I get home today. If I can't get it to work with these, I guess it'll have to come off and apart. I'll update this afternoon.

Thanks to all!

 

[Screamin' Metal]

Also, some times on the old winches, since they're where they can get rained on quite a bit,on the engagement sprag on the side of the drum, put a good coating of grease on there, yes, I know that it'll attact dust and dirt, but everytime you go to PM the vehicle, just wipe that off and slap some more on there.
The engagement sprag that slide and engages to the side of the drum usually get a little rusty, they aren't hard to take apart unless its a old WWII Duece thats been worked hard at a reserve center.
Just take her apart, lay everything out and really clean the drum shaft and bushing/bearings really well. Get a good front disc brake wheel bearing grease and give her a good coat upon reassembly. That grease will help keep the water off things and will prevent the heavy wear on your gears....

Hope this helps........

 

[rosco]

You can't be too smart out a winch. In this case, as above, just take it apart, service it. I suspect that you will find internally, a sheared key or other damage. In spite of the TMs, when these vehicles were on active duty, you might find in inconceivable, the abuse they were subjected to. They are in one piece (mostly), today, in spite of themselves. They were built to be "GI Proof" and that is somewhat challenging!

If it is any consolation, my winch does/doesn't do about what yours does, and I am just waiting for a couple of days to work on her.

Lee in Alaska

 

[m16ty]

I'd check the free spool brake before I tore it down. It sounds to me like the brake could be set up too tight. If thats the case it would hold tension on the clutch dogs all the time and make it very hard to shift. You should be able to rock the drum back and forth a pretty good bit by hand even with clutch engaged.

One word of caution, do not try and force the clutch lever. They are prone to breaking the shaft if forced.

 

[NDT]

On my winch, you have to move the lever far beyond the detent hole location to get the drum disengaged. Not sure why. Maybe you have the same issue.

 

[m16ty]

On my winch, you have to move the lever far beyond the detent hole location to get the drum disengaged. Not sure why. Maybe you have the same issue.

I'm having that same issue with a winch I'm rebuilding. Trying to get to the bottom with what's going on (I've got it all back apart). Here's a link to the thread https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/winch-assembly-problem.51464/

 

[Bmd1384]

UPDATE:

Ok, so adjusted both the free wheel and load brakes on my winch with no results the drum would still not spin freely.

So I maned up and took the winch off and cracked it open. Everything was going smoothly, the dog leg and all parts look to be in good shape. Then I tried to remove the Drum from the Drum shaft, it appears that the drum is frozen to the shaft. This seems to be the reason why the drum would not freewheel.

Has anyone ever had this problem? If so how did you finally removed it.
Also is it possible that the shaft or the drum have been bent?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Its possible its bent, but highly unlikely.

 

[m16ty]

I doubt the shaft or drum is bent. The winch has many more weak links that would fail before the shaft or drum did. With all that said, the military has been known to tear up a anvil with a rubber mallet so I guess it could happen. More than likely the shaft has rusted and it's just stuck.

You may end up having to put the drum in a press and press the shaft out. Maybe if it's not stuck too bad you can salvage the bushings that are in there.

Did you try hooking the winch to something heavy (with the winch clutch disengaged) and running the winch in? That could break it free but you'd have to put the winch back together to try it.

 

[92ramaro]

I doubt the shaft or drum is bent. The winch has many more weak links that would fail before the shaft or drum did. With all that said, the military has been known to tear up a anvil with a rubber mallet so I guess it could happen. More than likely the shaft has rusted and it's just stuck.

You may end up having to put the drum in a press and press the shaft out. Maybe if it's not stuck too bad you can salvage the bushings that are in there.

Did you try hooking the winch to something heavy (with the winch clutch disengaged) and running the winch in? That could break it free but you'd have to put the winch back together to try it.

Digging up bones tonight. Relevant ones though
I'm paranoid about my winch drum and or shaft being bent as well. The drum spun freely in my case however. Really confused on why I had to beat the drum with a dead blow once it was about 40% off of the shaft.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

hook the cable on a BIG tree and give it a bunch of really good jerks to break it loose.

 

[m16ty]

Digging up bones tonight. Relevant ones though
I'm paranoid about my winch drum and or shaft being bent as well. The drum spun freely in my case however. Really confused on why I had to beat the drum with a dead blow once it was about 40% off of the shaft.

Been awhile since I’ve been into one (the post of mine you quoted is 10 years old), but I bet it’s just rust on the shaft. Clean the shaft really good and put it back together. I’d venture to guess that you would pull the winch off the mounts before you bent the shaft or drum.