Winch Questions

[Gypsyman]

While going over the new to me M35A2C I ran across something odd. The truck is a WO/W that has had the correct winch installed. Everything appears to be original parts and the install looks like clean.

While spooling the wire off to take it down for a new thimble I heard a very light dragging sound. Upon further inspection it appears that the PTO driveline is ever so lightly touching the steering box. Being paranoid I expected the worst, like bent frame horns from a previous hit to the passenger side of the truck, but I can find no evidence of this at all. Frame horns are straight as an arrow. I checked the spacing relative to the frame horns side to side and everything looks like it was installed spot on. I also noted that the output yoke on the PTO is so close to the bellhousing that I doubt you could slide a piece of paper between the two.

So, the first question is how much clearance is normal between the driveline and the steering box?

The second question relates to the lead chain and hook. In every picture that I can find of original lead chain/hook assemblies the hooks appears to be oversized in relation to the original 1/2" chain. To me the hooks appear to be a 5/8" version but no matter how many pictures I zoom in on I don't see marking that would confirm or discredit this assumption. Can anyone confirm that the original lead chain hook is indeed a 5/8" version?

Richard

 

[Mullaney]

Well... I guess I wiggled when I snapped the picture. You are right. It appears that the standard hook for a front winch is 5/8"

 

[Gypsyman]

It looks like yours has been changed out like mine was. Below is the best reference photo that I have of an original lead chain and hook. You can see that the hook definitely looks oversized for the chain.

 

[m715mike]

I’m subscribing to the thread and am happy to check on both questions posed by the OP. However, this weekend may be my earliest opportunity to do so. I’m sure someone will come along before then and answer the questions.

 

[Gypsyman]

Any information at all is appreciated and it's no rush whatsoever. She's bedded down in a nice warm shop for the winter. =)

 

[davidb56]

While going over the new to me M35A2C I ran across something odd. The truck is a WO/W that has had the correct winch installed. Everything appears to be original parts and the install looks like clean.

While spooling the wire off to take it down for a new thimble I heard a very light dragging sound. Upon further inspection it appears that the PTO driveline is ever so lightly touching the steering box. Being paranoid I expected the worst, like bent frame horns from a previous hit to the passenger side of the truck, but I can find no evidence of this at all. Frame horns are straight as an arrow. I checked the spacing relative to the frame horns side to side and everything looks like it was installed spot on. I also noted that the output yoke on the PTO is so close to the bellhousing that I doubt you could slide a piece of paper between the two.

So, the first question is how much clearance is normal between the driveline and the steering box?

The second question relates to the lead chain and hook. In every picture that I can find of original lead chain/hook assemblies the hooks appears to be oversized in relation to the original 1/2" chain. To me the hooks appear to be a 5/8" version but no matter how many pictures I zoom in on I don't see marking that would confirm or discredit this assumption. Can anyone confirm that the original lead chain hook is indeed a 5/8" version?

Richard

Maybe you have a different driveline and yoke than the original one. I don't have a PTO winch, without pics, its hard to tell. It would seem something wrong if it has no clearance at the bell housing on one side, and none on the steering box side, then it would make sense that the winch needs to shift, the PTO shaft is wrong, or the PTO is wrong, but you posted its all correct. If you were winching with a 10-15% flex, you may get some real rubbing....try it under controlled conditions, rather in a ditch at Deer Park.

 

[cattlerepairman]

You may need the driveshaft for a multifuel as yours may be the drive shaft for the gas engine, depending on which vehicle the winch came from. I remember that there is a clearance issue with the gas driveshaft.

People that have a w/w Gasser might chime in to a picture!

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[Gypsyman]

You may need the driveshaft for a multifuel as yours may be the drive shaft for the gas engine, depending on which vehicle the winch came from. I remember that there is a clearance issue with the gas driveshaft.

People that have a w/w Gasser might chime in to a picture!

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Funny you mention that. I was just reading an old thread and saw a random reference to the gas driveline and bellhousing rubbing but not much was said about it. I just checked and the PTO driveline in the truck currently is 2.00" OD.

 

[Gypsyman]

Maybe you have a different driveline and yoke than the original one. I don't have a PTO winch, without pics, its hard to tell. It would seem something wrong if it has no clearance at the bell housing on one side, and none on the steering box side, then it would make sense that the winch needs to shift, the PTO shaft is wrong, or the PTO is wrong, but you posted its all correct. If you were winching with a 10-15% flex, you may get some real rubbing....try it under controlled conditions, rather in a ditch at Deer Park.

Instead of "all correct" I should have said that everything appears to have been a complete bolt-on with no fabricated parts or strange thing having been done. The flex and twist concern is exactly why I posted. Now I need to see if I can find the diameter spec for a multifuel driveline. Maybe it's as simple as a 1-3/4" OD versus the 2" OD that is currently installed.

 

[davidb56]

North 40 in spokane sells PTO shafts and parts. You can make up one to fit. thats what im doing for my PTO generator right now. Also you can jack up one side of the axle to watch the flex.

 

[Gypsyman]

Worst case I was going to sleeve it down a size or two for clearance but now my curiosity has been peaked. If the correct multifuel shaft is indeed a smaller OD they can be had NOS and complete for $150 shipped. I'm not above modifying something as a means to an end but I do prefer using original parts whenever possible.

On another note my BIL stopped by and donated some chains and Hammer-Lok couplers to the project. Two 1/2" 25' units and two 15' 5/8" GR100 beasts. I also located a used 5/8" hook that looks very similar to an original. See below. Note the very short straight shank section between the hook and the eye. That seems to be a defining feature of the original hooks.

And.........

The H-45 multifuel heater showed up today. =)

 

[m715mike]

Worst case I was going to sleeve it down a size or two for clearance but now my curiosity has been peaked. If the correct multifuel shaft is indeed a smaller OD they can be had NOS and complete for $150 shipped. I'm not above modifying something as a means to an end but I do prefer using original parts whenever possible.

It looks like the PTO shaft can be had on EBay for $80 plus $53.28 for shipping.

 

[Mullaney]

Worst case I was going to sleeve it down a size or two for clearance but now my curiosity has been peaked. If the correct multifuel shaft is indeed a smaller OD they can be had NOS and complete for $150 shipped. I'm not above modifying something as a means to an end but I do prefer using original parts whenever possible.

On another note my BIL stopped by and donated some chains and Hammer-Lok couplers to the project. Two 1/2" 25' units and two 15' 5/8" GR100 beasts. I also located a used 5/8" hook that looks very similar to an original. See below. Note the very short straight shank section between the hook and the eye. That seems to be a defining feature of the original hooks.

And.........

The H-45 multifuel heater showed up today. =)

Very Nice! The chains in a pocket of the truck somewhere after you attach one to the winch cable will be incredibly useful if you ever find yourself in a tight spot. The real goal for the chain is to keep you from "kinking" your winch cable. You always want a nice straight pull if you can - and wrapping the chain around a tree and hooking it back to itself is the way to go. CONGRATULATIONS on the loot!

 

[Gypsyman]

It looks like the PTO shaft can be had on EBay for $80 plus $53.28 for shipping.

Could you PM me a link or tell me what you searched? I was using the NSN on that site and that's better than what I came up with for results.

 

[Gypsyman]

Very Nice! The chains in a pocket of the truck somewhere after you attach one to the winch cable will be incredibly useful if you ever find yourself in a tight spot. The real goal for the chain is to keep you from "kinking" your winch cable. You always want a nice straight pull if you can - and wrapping the chain around a tree and hooking it back to itself is the way to go. CONGRATULATIONS on the loot!

Exactly. While I was cleaning out the toolbox I found what appears to be a NOS snatch block shoved all the way forward. Unfortunately it appears to the the 10T 5/8" wire version. Still haven't been able to find a correct 6" block for 1/2" wire.

 

[Mullaney]

Exactly. While I was cleaning out the toolbox I found what appears to be a NOS snatch block shoved all the way forward. Unfortunately it appears to the the 10T 5/8" wire version. Still haven't been able to find a correct 6" block for 1/2" wire.

I can't claim expert status on winches and snatchblocks, but I believe you could use your 1/2" cable and the 5/8" snatchblock with no ill effects. Somewhere I think I read up a size is no problem. Can't swear to that but logic says bigger and stronger - theoretically a larger diameter pulley in the block is a good thing. On the other hand, going to a 3/4" inch block with 1/2" cable isn't a good plan because the cable won't "ride" in the groove correctly.

.

 

[gringeltaube]

Now I need to see if I can find the diameter spec for a multifuel driveline. Maybe it's as simple as a 1-3/4" OD versus the 2" OD that is currently installed.

Both versions have the exact same Ø 2.00" tubing.

I'm not above modifying something as a means to an end but I do prefer using original parts whenever possible.

Fact is that even with all original parts some people had clearance issues.
Read this older thread... There are several suggestions there, as what to check and how to possibly solve the problem.

 

[davidb56]

Both versions have the exact same Ø 2.00" tubing.

Fact is that even with all original parts some people had clearance issues.
Read this older thread... There are several suggestions there, as what to check and how to possibly solve the problem.

Good read. One thing I noticed is that on the frame extensions, there might be a shim under each side of the winch to keep it level in the frame. This would keep the yoke/shaft a little lower. Are they welded on the extension? and can you add a little to move the front up and the rear down?

 

[Gypsyman]

Both versions have the exact same Ø 2.00" tubing.

Fact is that even with all original parts some people had clearance issues.
Read this older thread... There are several suggestions there, as what to check and how to possibly solve the problem.

Apparently my Jedi search powers suck. Thank you gringeltaube for the link. First on my reading list for today.

 

[fasttruck]

The hook and cable shown in post 2 is not military. Issue cable has a clevis on the end and is furnished with a chain and with a slip hook on the end that is without a bail or mouse on the hook. Example pictured is on a M 816 wrecker but the deuce and 3/4 ton s are similar except for size. Also shown is M 123 10 ton, and M818WW with winch. At least the cable in post 2 has a thimble in the loop which keeps the loop from flattening out under load.