Winch Weirdness

[GCecchetto]

Did a search but didn't really find much. My truck is a 2008 M1078A1R with the factory winch. Truck is new to me and I am new to these trucks, so in the steep learning curve of a new S&S owner.

The winch cable was loose on the drum and hanging down below the drum, so yesterday I thought I would test the winch, run the cable out a ways and then back in to clean things up. Engaged the winch at the winch, then the PTO, and then the winch in the cab. It seems at idle that it doesn't run the winch at all. Increase the RPM and it would run cable in, but not out. So I run the cable in, still loose on the drum and decide this is for another day after some trouble shooting. Disengage the winch in the cab and turn off the PTO. You can very clearly hear when the PTO is on or off. Later I head down to my local watering hole and notice the PTO light is on on the dash. I pull over to the side of the road and roll the window down. Don't hear the PTO, so I switch the PTO and hear it engage. Turn it back off and hear it turn off and the light goes out on the dash. Park and turn the truck off, including the main disconnect at the battery box. The local gang decides we're going to run down to Apple Jacks for a beer and a game of pool. Start the truck and head down the hill, and notice the PTO light is on on the dash again. Pull over, same routine as before, turn it on and hear it engage, turn it back off and hear it disengage and the light goes out. Park and turn it off at AJ's, then on the way back home, the whole scenario repeats.

Haven't driven the truck today, so don't know if it's still doing it. Some other info for context that might be related. The high/lo idle switch in my truck is disconnected due to supposedly not working and has the ground wire for the cruise control on it currently. The guy I bought the truck from is sending me a new one. When I initially engaged the PTO and winch in the cab, it didn't raise the idle. Since no cable was being taken in, I bumped the idle up with accelerate function of the cruise switch, which is also the resume function. The RPM increased like the cruise was resuming rather than just the 50 RPM for each bump of the switch like it should. After this each time I would engage the winch the RPM would increase even when the cruise was switched off. On the way home from Maryland the cruise was intermittently not working. looking at was was going on in CAT ET, we came to the conclusion it was likely a ground issue. The guy I bought the truck from and who makes and installed the cruise kit for me, recommended I pull the cruise ground off of the hi/lo idle switch and just land it on a ground point behind the dash. Which I plan to do today and will check all the ground points as well. I also had a little weirdness with my oil pressure gauge the other day where it was running at about half where it normally does and would drop to zero at idle, but the stop engine and low oil pressure lights did not come on and the truck was running fine, so it obviously wasn't at 0 PSI. It's a HEUI motor so no oil pressure and it isn't going to run. If this happens again I'll connect to the ECM and see what pressure the ECM is seeing. Lastly, when I park the truck I use the PTO as a theft deterrent since the truck won't shift into gear if the PTO is engaged. Anyone not familiar with the truck wouldn't know why it won't shift into gear even if they figured out the battery disconnect. Anyway, several times I've forgotten about having the PTO switched on when I start the truck. I can always hear that it's on, but don't ever remember seeing the PTO light it on the dash. I'll obviously test this later, but I have a feeling the PTO light hasn't been coming on.

So an explanation of what should be happening with a healthy winch equipped truck relative to the use of the winch, and any ideas as to why the PTO light would be coming on randomly when the PTO isn't on would be much appreciated.

 

[jeffhuey1n]

I don’t know a thing about your truck but this sounds very interesting

 

[jeffhuey1n]

Just saw this post, maybe help?

Custom winch wiring.

I have an A0 winch with the harness from that. I am installing on an A1 truck. Instead of wiring into my truck harnesses, I am proposing rewiring it to be always hot. I took a crack at the wiring schematic. Will post next post the pictures. @Ronmar any thoughts? Anyone else? Sent from...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[GeneralDisorder]

You have enough weird electrical related foolishness going on that I would just take a whole day and clean EVERY ground point and main power electrical connection you can find. The big ones that come to mind:

Battery terminals.
Battery box ground.
All the connections inside the disconnect box.
All the studs on the LBCD, and check that the grid heater is on the 24v load side.
The starter and starter solenoid connections.
Grid heater relay connections (back of the cylinder head).
Engine block ground in front of the starter.
Alternator to frame ground.
Cab to frame ground at the passenger front mount.
PDP panel ground at passenger grab handle bolt.
PDP panel distribution studs.
PDP panel ignition 12v and 24v relay terminals.
Front turn signal/marker light grounds (bucket mounting bolts).
Harness ground inside driver's step on the washer pump sub-harness.


..... I'll probably think of more. Without fail all of these will need to be cleaned and/or tightened sooner or later. And get a star washer assortment, plus some Dow Corning Molykote 111 to protect them. Excellent dielectric grease and o-ring lube.

Realistically these will take more than a day. Some will need to be replaced and some aren't that easy to access. There's probably 20+ hours on that list to do the job *right*

 

[Karl kostman]

Along with the above suggestions I would also check my connections on the PTO sensor to see if its dirty, sticky etc. I am assuming you have the TMs for this truck, if you dont you should, but all of these trucks with hydraulic winches have a minimum engine speed to be running to operate the winch and YES this is important and one of the reasons these trucks have throttles on them. There is also in the TMs the correct order in which to do things to use the winch, Have you read these winch operations yet? If not I strongly suggest doing so!

 

[GCecchetto]

Just saw this post, maybe help?

Custom winch wiring.

I have an A0 winch with the harness from that. I am installing on an A1 truck. Instead of wiring into my truck harnesses, I am proposing rewiring it to be always hot. I took a crack at the wiring schematic. Will post next post the pictures. @Ronmar any thoughts? Anyone else? Sent from...

www.steelsoldiers.com

Thanks. I found that thread when I did a search earlier. I'll read through it.

 

[GCecchetto]

Along with the above suggestions I would also check my connections on the PTO sensor to see if its dirty, sticky etc. I am assuming you have the TMs for this truck, if you dont you should, but all of these trucks with hydraulic winches have a minimum engine speed to be running to operate the winch and YES this is important and one of the reasons these trucks have throttles on them. There is also in the TMs the correct order in which to do things to use the winch, Have you read these winch operations yet? If not I strongly suggest doing so!

Yes, I have the TM's and will read through the operation of the winch. The A1R, and I think the A1 as well, no longer have the hand throttle.

 

[GCecchetto]

You have enough weird electrical related foolishness going on that I would just take a whole day and clean EVERY ground point and main power electrical connection you can find. The big ones that come to mind:

Battery terminals.
Battery box ground.
All the connections inside the disconnect box.
All the studs on the LBCD, and check that the grid heater is on the 24v load side.
The starter and starter solenoid connections.
Grid heater relay connections (back of the cylinder head).
Engine block ground in front of the starter.
Alternator to frame ground.
Cab to frame ground at the passenger front mount.
PDP panel ground at passenger grab handle bolt.
PDP panel distribution studs.
PDP panel ignition 12v and 24v relay terminals.
Front turn signal/marker light grounds (bucket mounting bolts).
Harness ground inside driver's step on the washer pump sub-harness.


..... I'll probably think of more. Without fail all of these will need to be cleaned and/or tightened sooner or later. And get a star washer assortment, plus some Dow Corning Molykote 111 to protect them. Excellent dielectric grease and o-ring lube.

Realistically these will take more than a day. Some will need to be replaced and some aren't that easy to access. There's probably 20+ hours on that list to do the job *right*

I have a $h!t load of electrical stuff to address. Noticed today a bunch of the wires in the CTIS harness have been wrapped with electrical tape, so I'm guessing the insulation was chewed by mice. That will take some time to fix correctly.

Found this behind the dash today. Pretty sure these three wire belong on the low air buzzer which has no wires on it.


Also curious about what P93 would go to. I'll dig into the schematics.

 

[Guruman]

Along with the above suggestions I would also check my connections on the PTO sensor to see if its dirty, sticky etc. I am assuming you have the TMs for this truck, if you dont you should, but all of these trucks with hydraulic winches have a minimum engine speed to be running to operate the winch and YES this is important and one of the reasons these trucks have throttles on them. There is also in the TMs the correct order in which to do things to use the winch, Have you read these winch operations yet? If not I strongly suggest doing so!

My winch on my A0 works fine at any RPM.... I only ever really use it at idle.

 

[Guruman]

Also.... this might help with sorting out any electrical issue with the winch. Once outside of the panel, it's really only 4 wires and 4 grounds that make everything happen.

Getting the PTO engaged light seems to me either a chewed/frayed spot in the harness, or if that sensor is a pressure sensor detecting pressure in the PTO pump to tell when it is working..... possibly you have some pressure in the system that's not supposed to be there... plugged vent etc.

As for the winch not taking in cable..... is the fluid level inthe tank OK? If so you can run a jumper to the in/out wires at P210 to make sure the spool valve is working.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/custom-winch-wiring.211619/post-2473581

 

[GCecchetto]

Also.... this might help with sorting out any electrical issue with the winch. Once outside of the panel, it's really only 4 wires and 4 grounds that make everything happen.

Getting the PTO engaged light seems to me either a chewed/frayed spot in the harness, or if that sensor is a pressure sensor detecting pressure in the PTO pump to tell when it is working..... possibly you have some pressure in the system that's not supposed to be there... plugged vent etc.

As for the winch not taking in cable..... is the fluid level inthe tank OK? If so you can run a jumper to the in/out wires at P210 to make sure the spool valve is working.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/custom-winch-wiring.211619/post-2473581

The gauge on the tank shows the fluid level to be 7/8, but there isn't oil above the strainer that unfortunately can't be removed. Dipping a zip tie through a hole in the strainer confirms the level to be just below the strainer, so I don't think fluid level is the issue.

I'm going from memory so I might be mistaken, but I think the corroded plug in the photo below is P210 in the passenger side kick panel. I found this while trouble shooting some rear lighting issues that fortunately turned out to be a plug that was partially disconnected. I checked all of the plugs in the passenger side kick panel and all were fine aside from this plug and another that was unused that I think is for the radio. That plug was in worse shape and one pin was broken off. Anyway, after finding this, I ordered some Deoxit contact cleaner and some contact cleaning tools. Given the corrosion in the plug, and that fact that this weirdness started right after I disconnected and reconnect this plug, I'm guessing this might be part of the problem. On my way down the hill yesterday, I had the computer connected and when the PTO light comes on, the PTO still shows off in CAT ET.


I need to give the winch some love as the guide rollers the cable runs through at the winch itself don't spin. The fairlead rollers don't spin either, so I'll address that stuff before further running the winch again.

 

[MrMikey4026]

Just a bit of wisdom I learned when installing my winch, the DIN connectors on the hydraulic valves are known to be huge failure point. They suffer from water intrusion and corrode. They can be purchased from many sources. I prefer the ones with a pigtail installed. I coat everything with NYK77 anticorosion compound.
You have to unbolt the bracket from the frame to get to them. There is not enough clearance to get the connectors off the valves.
Cheers

 

[GCecchetto]

Just a bit of wisdom I learned when installing my winch, the DIN connectors on the hydraulic valves are known to be huge failure point. They suffer from water intrusion and corrode. They can be purchased from many sources. I prefer the ones with a pigtail installed. I coat everything with NYK77 anticorosion compound.
You have to unbolt the bracket from the frame to get to them. There is not enough clearance to get the connectors off the valves.
Cheers

Thanks, I'll order some. Sounds like loads of fun getting to those connectors

 

[GCecchetto]

Thanks, I'll order some. Sounds like loads of fun getting to those connectors

By the way, apparently you can't buy NYK77 in California

 

[GeneralDisorder]

By the way, apparently you can't buy NYK77 in California

Dow Corning Molykote 111 is as good or better. NYK77 is just Truck Lite branded dielectric grease. Dow 111 is used extensively in the aviation world for this and for o-ring lube.

The four chems I keep on my truck tool box - loctite 545 (thread sealant), loctite 248 (blue threadlocker in gluestick format), DOW 111, and Permatex The Right Stuff Black.

Molykote - 111 Valve Lubricant Compound 5oz | DC-111

Dow Corning Molykote 111 Valve Lubricant 5oz | DC111-50Z Dow Corning 111 Valve Lubricant & Sealant can be used in applications such as: Sealant for vacuum and pressure systems Sealant for outdoor equipment, including shipboard applications, subject to washing and harsh environments; meters...

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