Winter MERDC Verdant Questions

[ODFever]

I’m doing research on Winter MERDC Verdants. I searched and found a bunch of threads relating to MERDC, but none of them answered my questions.

http://olive-drab.com/od_mvg_camo_tc5-200.php describes the differences between the verdants.

This thread compares the different verdants in post #4.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?93228-what-color-MERDC

I’m looking for pictures and information about MVs painted in the Snow - Temperate with Open Terrain and the Snow – Temperate with Trees & Shrubs Terrain patterns.
1. Which branches of the US Military (other than the Army) used the two aforementioned verdants?
2. Which vehicles were painted this way? CUCVs? HMMWVs? Deuces? 5 tons?
3. Where were these vehicles used (theatre of operations), or were they were stationed?
4. Which units used these two verdants? I want to know the unit markings and proper bumper markings.

Thanks!

 

[bikeman]

Answers I can provide based on my reading and understanding:
2. everything used the pattern... or COULD use the pattern. HMMWVs were after 3 color NATO was the standard, but There are some pics of them being painted MERDEC, probably not winter though.
3. Should have been Army wide. Most of the pictures I have come out of Germany, but the fact that the ROK uses a variant of the pattern, and the time period would say that USFK used it as well. Units that came over to Germany for REFORGER had MERDEC vehicles, so, should be CONUS as well.
4. Any/all.

If you can get your hands on the MASSTER MERDEC/DUAL-TEX camo book, it has great color photos of all sorts of vehicles with versions of MERDEC on, including the variations and the "bored Soldiers" modifications to them.

 

[ODFever]

I found this document. Interesting reading.
View attachment 778726.pdf

 

[wsucougarx]

This website has tons of pics showing unit markings etc.
https://sites.google.com/site/merdccamo/home/merdcpic

 

[M813rc]

When I was stationed in Norway in 1980 with the US Marines, all of our vehicles were painted Winter Verdant year round.
During the snowy times, we painted roughly 50% of our vehicles with each Snow scheme. This meant that the green on half the trucks got painted out with water-soluble white paint, while the brown on the other half got painted out. All these vehicles operated together in the same environment.

My observation in the CONUS (mainly Camp Pendleton) all tactical Marine vehicles I saw were painted in Winter Verdant year round, except some used at 29 Palms, which used various desert colours. This continued until the 383 (3-colour) camouflage came into service around 1984. The first Humvees delivered arrived in 383 camo, never saw any, other than a test vehicle, in MERDEC.

Being a model builder, I was interested in the actual colours, and took notes.

Cheers

 

[Tornadogt]

MERDC was also standard at Ft Hood Texas / Ft Bliss Texas during that time (up to 1984-85 est.). Mostly Red Desert and Gray Desert.

 

[wsucougarx]

I'm doing the Winter Verdant on my M561.

 

[mcmullag]

I and another member painted a truck for winter for a friend.

 

[mcmullag]

I just took pics off google images of winter camo and freestyled on the truck with white, gray and black primer, the truck was already white, came from NM in a gov auction.

 

[Another Ahab]

Subscribed.

 

[ODFever]

Rory - First off, thank you for serving our country. Did you ever have any CUCVs painted MERDC in any of the units you served in? Do you remember seeing any government purchased civilian vehicles (cars and trucks without M designations) painted up in MERDC schemes?

 

[ODFever]

I also found this thread. I like the way the M715 looks in MERDC.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?11261-4-Color-MERDC-Pattern-Needed

 

[M813rc]

OD, it was an honour.

On CUCV's, no on MERDEC, all arrived new in 383 (green/black/brown) camo. The first one I saw was an M1009 on the Pohakuloa Training Area in Hawaii in mid-late 1984. I actually have a picture (rather poor quality, unfortunately) of that one, sitting with a Winter Verdant M880.

Only tactical vehicles wore camo.
Almost all military-owned civilian vehicles were either in some innocuous colour like white, dark blue, grey, black, etc., if they were Gov't Motor Pool vehicles or base admin type vehicles; or gloss/semi-gloss Marine Green with yellow stick-on lettering if they were USMC owned. Some of the gov't cars were a hideous shade of light pea green, similar in some ways to Seafoam green. We always said they were painted like that because it made them too ugly to steal.

Cheers

 

[M813rc]

A lot of flight line vehicles on air bases, and utility/construction types, were painted yellow, with black markings.

Cheers

 

[Another Ahab]

OD, it was an honour.

On CUCV's, no on MERDEC, all arrived new in 383 (green/black/brown) camo. The first one I saw was an M1009 on the Pohakuloa Training Area in Hawaii in mid-late 1984. I actually have a picture (rather poor quality, unfortunately) of that one, sitting with a Winter Verdant M880.

Only tactical vehicles wore camo.
Almost all military-owned civilian vehicles were either in some innocuous colour like white, dark blue, grey, black, etc., if they were Gov't Motor Pool vehicles or base admin type vehicles; or gloss/semi-gloss Marine Green with yellow stick-on lettering if they were USMC owned. Some of the gov't cars were a hideous shade of light pea green, similar in some ways to Seafoam green. We always said they were painted like that because it made them too ugly to steal.

Cheers

As a taxpayer, feeling over-taxed, I'm OK with that strategy.

That's cheaper than a lock, and you'll never lose the key.

 

[wsucougarx]

I got all four colors of the Winter Verdant MERDC mixed up at Home Depot a few days ago. I'm ready to shoot my Goat when the weather improves.

 

[ODFever]

Thank you for all of the great information!!! I have a bunch more questions for you.

Regarding the white civilian trucks you saw - Did they have any base or unit markings? Did they have any FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY stenciling? Did they have any painting, stenciling, or identification that made it easy to determine that they were owned by the military? Do you remember seeing chrome trim, rims, or bumpers on the trucks that were painted white?

The M1009 that you saw at the Pohakuloa Training Area - Do you remember what verdant it was painted in?

OD, it was an honour.

On CUCV's, no on MERDEC, all arrived new in 383 (green/black/brown) camo. The first one I saw was an M1009 on the Pohakuloa Training Area in Hawaii in mid-late 1984. I actually have a picture (rather poor quality, unfortunately) of that one, sitting with a Winter Verdant M880.

Only tactical vehicles wore camo.
Almost all military-owned civilian vehicles were either in some innocuous colour like white, dark blue, grey, black, etc., if they were Gov't Motor Pool vehicles or base admin type vehicles; or gloss/semi-gloss Marine Green with yellow stick-on lettering if they were USMC owned. Some of the gov't cars were a hideous shade of light pea green, similar in some ways to Seafoam green. We always said they were painted like that because it made them too ugly to steal.

Cheers

 

[M813rc]

The M1009 on PTA was in 383, all of the CUCVs that I saw in my time were either 383, or a few overall green ones (the 383 camo green), but those were mostly around the air wing.

The white, and other civilian coloured, trucks were all your basic el-strippo versions, the bigger ones usually had matching painted bumpers, etc.
The standard sized pickups and cars sometimes had chrome, if that's the way a civilian one came from the factory, though a lot of the pickups had basic painted bumpers. If you go back and look at what the various dealers offered as the absolute cheapest package, that's what the military would have bought. Most of these type vehicles were standard civvie vehicles bought directly from the civilian marketplace with no military specific items other than a data tag attached to it somewhere (often on the outside of the glovebox door), and the service markings stuck outside.
I don't know if those were government supplied and applied by the dealers prior to delivery, or by the receiving service upon receipt.

Most of the civvie vehicles had US Marine Corps, or occasionally US Marines, and a number (for Marines, always six numerals, no alphabet) below it in 2" stick on lettering, with a 1" For Official Use Only as the third line. If the paint was dark coloured, then the lettering was yellow. A fair number of vehicles running around Marine bases were marked for US Navy in a similar manner, though they often used white lettering on dark vehicles.
The markings were almost always on the doors, if the vehicle was equipped with doors. For something that didn't have doors the markings would be on the side somewhere.
Most vehicles had the same markings on the back, if there was a large enough flattish surface, either on the drivers side or in the middle. No front markings.
Note - no . in the US, the Marines gave the . up sometime close to WWII.

Same applied to the Marine Green vehicles, with all lettering in yellow.

Quite a few civilian type cars had no markings at all, other than the US Government license plates.

The attached photos show examples of the marking styles for white (civilian coloured) and Marine Green vehicles. These markings have remained pretty much unchanged in the Marines from at least the 60's to the present day.
In this case, the white truck is actually a white painted M1028 that had been fitted with a flatbed. Photographed it in a junkyard.

USMC base/unit markings are very rare, to the point of being virtually non-existent. Other than the M##### on tactical vehicles (which is a unit identifier, and will be the same on all vehicles within a specific unit), it is very rare to see "individual" markings on Marine vehicles post-Vietnam era. One reason for a lot of this is that many units don't have their own vehicles, and borrow them (and the drivers) from Motor T units, so the vehicles will have the Motor T identifier on them.
The most individual marking on my M813, which was straight out of the Marines, was Gun 3 in 1" thin faded white on the left front fender below the turn signal.

Cheers

 

[Another Ahab]

I am loving that vintage USMC Dodge van, that is classic; like the Scooby-Doo ride or something.

 

[M813rc]

That is a cool little van. It is in the museum on Camp Pendleton. I drove similarly marked Dodge vans in the late 70s-80s, but they weren't nearly as cool.

Cheers