Wiring MEP-003a and MEP-004a to my house

[juddspaintballs]

I have a working MEP-003a that I have not yet used to power anything larger than the two 120v outlets could handle on the control panel.

In light of this hurricane we're currently being hit with, I have no problem hooking up a safe lockout panel to run stuff with a 25' cord from my MEP-003a if we do lose power (still going strong so far), but I want a more permanent solution.

I also have a MEP-004a that I'm putting a motor in. The plan is to pour a pad and permanently mount it outside of my home. It has the ASK.

While I work on the 004, I want to be able to utilize the 003 in a permanent solution that I don't have to change out for running the 004.

I have 200 amp service in my house. I was considering buying a transfer switch panel because my current electrical panel is messy and it got some moisture in my basement at one point and the face panel is rusty. I've added and removed circuits since I moved into the house and since I'm considering selling the house in the next year or so, I would also like to clean it up to make it more appealing to a buying.

The best idea I have come up with so far is this:
Reliance Generator-Ready 200 Amp Panel — Dual Analog Wattmeters, For Generators up to 60 Amps/15,000 Watts | Transfer Switches| Northern Tool + Equipment
It is a 200 amp panel with a built in manual transfer switch that transfers over to a portion of the main panel that will run up to 60 amps of other accessories. The 003 is rated at 52 or 54 amps (don't remember) at 240v, and if I rewire my 004 to single phase, it should be capable of a bit over 60 amps at 240v. This would let me clean up the house wiring and have an integrated transfer switch with isolated generator circuits.

My only problem with that panel is that I want to wire in some circuits which would exceed that 60 amp rating. I have a 240v well pump, electric water heater, electric stove, electric dryer, heat pump with electric coils for defrost, etc. All electric house, basically. The well pump is non-negotiable -- it will be powered by the generator . I really want to be able to run my AC/heat pump, although I will never need to use the heat pump feature or defrost coils because I use an outdoor boiler for heat. I still want my AC in the summer though, and that would include my air handler. I can get away with not having an electric stove or dryer in operation because I have a propane grill and we can hang clothes in the basement if need be. I'm still on the fence about the water heater because I can heat my water via the outdoor wood boiler, but if it's summer, I would have to build a fire and start up the system just to heat my water. So I think that my well pump, AC and air handler, and POSSIBLY water heater would easily exceed the 60 amp portion of the panel. Conceivably, all of those could be running at once. I know the MEP's will handle the surge of all of those on at once, but that exceeds 60 amps.

So my other thought would be to just buy a new 200 amp house panel and wire in a manual transfer switch. Initially, I could wire in the MEP-003a with a male pigtail going to the switch and use a SO cable to the generator outside (trailer mounted). When I get the 004 ready to go, I could switch it over to a hardwired connection. This would allow me to run the entire house if I wanted (and the generator could handle it), but I wouldn't be restricted to the 60 amp side of the transfer panel.


I can probably do all of the work myself. I know I'll need the power company to kill power to my house when I do this kind of work. I'll probably still hire an electrician friend of mine to come over and help me do it (or more like I'll help him).

What are your thoughts? Use the 200/60 amp handy generator panel or use a normal 200 amp panel for the house and a manual transfer switch to switchover?

 

[juddspaintballs]

Hmmm, found one of those Reliance panels that lets me have 100a input from the generator side...
Reliance Controls TTV 38 Circuit 200Amp Outdoor Generator-Ready Load Center for Generators up to 25000 Watt: Tools : Walmart.com

 

[Isaac-1]

you may want to look at a whole home manual transfer switch, try searching ebay for 200 amp transfer switch and look at the various manual models starting for under $500 (posting auction links is against the SS rules).

Ike

 

[juddspaintballs]

I've looked at those already, actually. Around $500 for a 200 amp manual transfer switch that switches my entire load and then another $75 for a new panel for the house. Not a deal breaker there, at all, but perhaps the $470 Reliance panel that lets me utilize 100a of generator input and still have a brand new panel for the whole house would suffice for me? They also have the TTV2012D which is a little over $500 and has a 125a breaker for generator input.

 

[rosco]

A few of my thoughts: Although you have a all electric house, with a 200 amp panel, everything does not run at once, & seldom, if ever, you pull that much. I doubt that you would often, if ever, pull the 60 amp load. During a power outage, one can be a little more "economy minded".

How much do you want to spend on fuel? The 003 is rated to comsume a little over a gallon/hour. Better check the 004, but my guess is that it will consume substantially more then twice that.

I paid $500 for a 200 amp, manual transfer switch, from Grainger. I feel that I can keep the essentials going in both my shop & house with the 003, in winter, and be selective about the loads that I carry. I have no AC here, of course.

The notion of having a generator is nice, well, and good, BUT, when it comes maintaining one, keeping it servicable, AND keeping it running 24/7, when push comes to shove, will be a real challenge. These MEPs are 30+ years old, regardles of the hours, and they can and have bugs. I have a clamp meter, but I'm a long way from being an electrician - keeping a Duece running is nothing by comparison.

Good Luck

 

[juddspaintballs]

I realize the 004 will suck more fuel than the 003 and I am fine with that. I plan to feed it with a 275 gallon heating oil tank. Once I get this new rebuild motor on the 004, it should very few bugs.

 

[PeterD]

...

The best idea I have come up with so far is this:
Reliance Generator-Ready 200 Amp Panel — Dual Analog Wattmeters, For Generators up to 60 Amps/15,000 Watts | Transfer Switches| Northern Tool + Equipment
It is a 200 amp panel with a built in manual transfer switch that transfers over to a portion of the main panel that will run up to 60 amps of other accessories. The 003 is rated at 52 or 54 amps (don't remember) at 240v, and if I rewire my 004 to single phase, it should be capable of a bit over 60 amps at 240v. This would let me clean up the house wiring and have an integrated transfer switch with isolated generator circuits.

My only problem with that panel is that I want to wire in some circuits which would exceed that 60 amp rating...

Since the MEP-004 won't be exceeding 60 amps, there should be no problem using a panel such as this one.

But another alternative is the one at Harbor Freight, which is a stand alone panel (so you'd have to also perhaps replace the breaker panel...)

The amperage of the circuits being fed is not the number you use, it is the current from the generator.

 

[juddspaintballs]

I realize the 004 isn't rated to exceed 60 amps, but it could easily on a big surge, like well pump, air handler, and AC all kicking on at once. The 004 can surge more than 60 amps. The 003 probably could even surge 60 at once too. Plus, breakers begin to open at 90% their rated value, so I'm looking at being able to continuously feed 54 amps.

I will look at the harbor freight stuff.

 

[AN/ARC186]

There are some issues with the northern tool panel.

They list several brands of breakers that will fit but none of those breakers is UL listed for that panel.
The bus in these panels is pretty much garbage.
Harbor Freight has the same issues.
with electrical panels, you get what you pay for.

Why not buy a new panel, say a Square D or GE, get the generator interlock kit for it and your done? That way you have a good quality panel and the generator interface you need.

 

[glcaines]

I found a 400-amp 4-pole Square D manual transfer switch on Ebay that was NIB for about the same money as the Northern panel. It lets me power the entire 400-amp service total electric house with the 003a. Get a good transfer switch - its well worth the money.

 

[212sparky]

If you are going to sell the house you better pull permits and have it all inspected. If you are doing it all manual, you can do manual load shedding so you don't over load your genset.

 

[Isaac-1]

Inspection is still not universal, the rural areas around where I live are still uninspected even though the state passed a law requiring all local governments to hire inspectors over 5 years ago, many have not yet done it.

Ike

 

[Munchies]

lowes.com has a all in one combo panel with an interlock for $209

 

[juddspaintballs]

Why not buy a new panel, say a Square D or GE, get the generator interlock kit for it and your done? That way you have a good quality panel and the generator interface you need.

Thank you for the info on the panel that Northern Tool sells. I do want to avoid cheap parts if possible. I do like your advice on a Square D panel with an interlock kit. I can remove the interlock kit when I move out and it will look like a normal installation with nothing funky. I like that idea a lot and I think that is what I'm going to do. Thank you.

I had my house inspected before I bought it and moved in. It had a couple weird electrical things in the basement that I corrected that the inspector never caught. He was more concerned with having outlet covers and proper grounds at all outlets.



I learned a little lesson in home wiring for the generator tonight, however. My parents lost power from this storm but we did not. My dad never even let me know they lost power and he was powering their well pump, pellet stove, sump pump, and a light bulb off of his portable generator. I offered to hook up my MEP-003a to his place and power more of his house. I was simply going to backfeed his dryer outlet until I learned it was only a 30a outlet. We opted to open up his panel, shift breakers down two spots and put a 60a double pole breaker at the top. We shut off his main breaker and ran 6/3 copper wire to the 003a from the 60a double pole we installed. I started turning on breakers one at a time starting with the more important things. Eventually I had everything on but the water heater and he asked if I could flip that on. I was able to power his entire house off of the MEP-003a run through a 60a double pole breaker and only draw a maximum of 60% of the rated current from the 003a. That was with the heat pump, well pump, and water heater all running at once, along with all of the lights in the house and garage turned on. He has an all electric house just like I do. I must say, I am thoroughly impressed with the generator and the fact it only took 60 amps to run his house.

 

[rosco]

The 003's are impressive. Isn't that 60 amps, on each hot leg. That is a lot of power. That is why I question the the use of the 004.

Also, shouldn't there be a ground wire in there from your machine, back to your houshold ground. Either use 6/4, or carry a seperate ground , on a seperate wire, to make the system safe.

 

[juddspaintballs]

There is a separate ground wire. It isn't SO wire, so the ground wire isn't insulated, and therefore not counted when naming the wire 6/3. There are indeed 4 wires inside: black, white, red, and a ground wire.

 

[diverman555]

electric

When I hooked a Gen up to my house for the Hurricanes in TX, I got just a disconnect
Cut power to the house by pulling the meter, ran the main leads from the meter to the disconnect. Then ran the wires from the disconnect to my main panel. I turned off the breakers I did not want to use and left on the ones I did. Before starting the Gen, I would shut the disconnect off so no power could backfeed into the lines and kill some lineman working, then start it and what breakers were left on would have power. Cost was under $30.00

 

[DEVILDOC]

What size wire you guys using from mep 004a to wire to your house 200 amp
Getting one that's been completely rework for home use.

 

[DEVILDOC]

What size wire you guys using from mep 004a to wire to your house 200 amp
Getting one that's been completely rework for home use.

 

[212sparky]

At my parents I have 4 cuts of 4/0 super flex cable 200 feet long with cam lock connectors and crimped pin connectors for the gen set. I also have a cut of #1 super flex grounding cable. The set up works good and lines up to most AT&T facilities.