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Won't fire in neutral position on the shifter (M-939 Series 5-Ton)

Shotgun

New member
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Location
Dewey AZ
Hopefully someone can give me some ideals what is not working on my A2. First some up front information, I really haven’t been on the boards at all for some time now.

I dropped dead last Oct. 20 at work and was really sick before that for probably 10 months. Thought my asthma was kicking my butt. That and working 12-hour shifts at night and not sleeping during the day for only 3 hrs, was why I was so tired, that being 63. I had no energy and not getting anything done but trying to sleep, just dead tired all the time.

Turned out I was throwing blood clots all that time, and on the 20th of Oct. I had a massive pulmonary embolism bilaterally; both pulmonary vessels were 100% occlude. I got dizzy and sat down and that was the last thing I remember. Lucky one of my RN friends walked by and found me dead. He threw me on the floor to start CPR and that apparently broke part of the left blood clot free and I just start to get enough blood to the brain. And I came back and they rushed me down the hall to ER. And the short of is they didn’t think I would make at the ER (I work at the East Campus of YRMC and they had to send me to the West Campus hospital for the intensive care ward for the TPE treatment). Spent a week there, didn’t even know I was dead till some the guys I with work with came by a day later and told I was dead.

That will mess with your mind, took a few weeks to work through that, more than once broke down thinking about being dead. Anyway, lost my job over it, still haven’t been released to work yet. I get dizzy and get headaches and almost pass out when I have to bend over or get on my hand knees to work on things. Nose bleeds all time, and another great thing now I am getting some form of sciatica of the right leg, it will go out and I don’t feel my leg at all and it collapses and down I go. Not so great when you are Warfarin and you hit your head when you go down. So the Docs are still running tests and trying this and that and no luck yet. Still I am feeling a 100% better than when I was throwing blood clots being and sick and tired all the time. Of course no job and the long-term disability payment sucks, try living on $880.00 a month. So been trying to get my strength back doing some real light kettle bell work outs, sort of slow going at it as I come up on 64. Got all my projects finally done I can afford to do now, all time I was sick I let stuff go. Doing some paint work on the truck, up-keep it needs and getting some reloading done.

As I mentioned I really haven’t been to the site other I was talking to a couple of the venders here about getting some rear LED tail lights from them, till something broke and had to spend the money I had saved on the repairs. Been hauling 600 gallons water for my fruit trees every week. I live in the high desert and my well only puts out about a gallon and half an hour. Thought the LEDS would be a safer bet going up the hills here so I didn’t get rear-ended while I am doing about 40 on the grades.

So the issue is, I go to start the truck and I have to giggle the shifter around or out of neutral to get the truck to start. It has always did this since I bought it every so often; lately it has been getting a lot worse. Went to get water at the Dewey water station last week, when I turn off the truck when I got there, as there was a line of picks-ups getting water. When it was my turn to move up nothing, when I hit the start lever. Had the battery switch on, tried starting lever and moving the shifter in neutral to moving in out of neutral. Nothing, again then while I am trying to figure what I am going to do as there was other truck’s behind me in line, the power came back on with the starting switch on. I fired her up and keep it running till I got it home. Got my trees watered yesterday, decided I need to get the truck on the pad so I could work on it. I left the transmission in neutral when I shut it off last week and didn’t touch it when I tried to start it today. Same thing again, turned battery switch on, turned the start lever on no power, pushed it to start and again no joy. Giggle everything this time probably spent 2 to 3 minutes trying to start it. So sitting with both levers on thinking I am going have to tear into it where it was parked, the power came back on and I got it started and moved to the shop pad. Again I put the tyranny in neutral while it was running and shut it off. Tried starting it again and it fired up. Shut it off and tried again, nothing. The batteries are brand new and I have a pulse tech on it. When I shut the battery switch off I can hear a sound like a solenoid turning off after turning the switch.

Tore the side panels of the selector housing for the tyranny off, thinking maybe the shifter wasn’t making contact. As you can see from the photos, I can’t see anything in there. In photos circled 2 and 3 I checked the wires and they are connected and not loose. Is there a solenoid elsewhere that may have gone out? Or is the shifter in the photos bad?

I don’t want to start tearing stuff apart before I know where to look. Does anyone have some suggestions where to look? I won’t drive the truck till this gets fixed and I would like get tit fixed fast if possible so I can haul water for my trees, somewhat hot here in AZ right now, it’s 100 degrees plus now. Thanks for any help you can give.

Greg
 

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therooster2001

Active member
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Location
Colorado
Sorry to hear about the hassles, both to you and the 5 ton. I've never had the issue on my truck, but sounds like a classic neutral safety switch. I had this issue in my Galaxie 500. WP 366 in the field maintenance TM. Check the continuity of that guy. Feels like it..


 

Shotgun

New member
34
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0
Location
Dewey AZ
So Mr. rooster from the diagram you kindly sent, I just disconnect the 5 and 6 wires and check the continuity with a multi meter? I don't have to take the neutral safety switch off to test it? If it is bad where do you get one to replace it? Do the part houses on the site have them? Thanks for your help with this, I will check it out in the morning. Thanks for for your concern, I have to keep thinking it could be worse. I could be most truly dead as the munchkins would say. Once again thanks for help, Greg
 

simp5782

Feo, Fuerte y Formal
Supporting Vendor
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you can get one from Oshkosh equipment or maybe an Allison dealer. NSN 2920-01-114-7538. Sorry to hear about all you health problems but glad that you are still with us. The green disease can't take ya down.
 

therooster2001

Active member
824
43
28
Location
Colorado
Won't fire in neutral position on the shifter

Troubleshooting procedure 088 in the field maintenance. It starts sort of mid stream if you think it's the neutral safety...although might be worth it to start and read the whole procedure to be sure you don't miss anything...

 

randygk

Member
170
2
18
Location
Nampa, ID
Sorry to hear of you and truck's issues. Our 5 ton started acting the same, starter would not attempt to start truck. I traced the issue to the starter control box and started to remove the box. I found the bolt with the ground strap holding the box to the firewall loose. Tightened it and has worked fine since.
Good Luck
 

Shotgun

New member
34
9
0
Location
Dewey AZ
Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000105 EndHTML:0000009098 StartFragment:0000002353 EndFragment:0000009062Well here is what transpired for today and of course as usual it was a CF. Got my cd out I bought for the TM’s and put in a PC a friend have given me recently. Booted up fine as I am looking for what you sent me, in went into time out mode. Rebooted it again and did the same. Tried in my Mac book pro and the CD won’t load, great another fun filled day of everything going to ****. I am a Mac guy, my I-Mac went dead a few months back and my Mac book pro is on its last legs too it seems like. Got both back in 2006 when I was going to school in the photo program as refurbish from with the student discount. So I went to SS site and down the TM 9-2320-272-23-1 for there after trying to figure which one I need. Got the PDF put into the external hard, did not want to slow my machine anymore with a big file. See where this going don’t you. Of course later I need my laptop there so I could follow the WP’s. So I had to print out the sheets for the ones I was following.
Checked the continuity of the start switch leads and they showed 10 on the ohm reading. That was good, though for our readers there don’t do the stupid thing I did. Mark your cables that are to together with tape so you know which ones with its mate. I didn’t catch that till 20 seconds later after I did it. My baby was had a full restoration in 2012 at Red River Depot and everything under there was painted with black under coating including the wiring tags for each line.
So I followed the TM 83, 85 and 88 Checked the battery voltage, it was around 23.5, all the cables are good and tight, did all of that when I put the new batteries in about a couple weeks before I went down. Cleaned up the wire layout and marked all the lines with tape as to what was what.
Tried checking the voltage meter (I did some screen captures for you of what WP I was using) wound up on my head trying to find terminal V and W gave up after a while, that started my head pounding and being a very big silver back, there is not a lot room for me to fit with the heater and shifter column in the way. Couldn’t find the terminals they were talking about. Just found the one wire going to the voltage meter. Although I could probably use a new voltmeter there, it’s always giving screwy reading when I turn the battery switch on and the start switch. Gives me full charged reading when running though.
So next I was going to do the page 0085-7 of the TM ‘s, got my multi meter ready strip a old antilog volt meter of its probes for this test. When I took the protector connecter cable off the PBC box there was no thump, so that test told me it was good for the PBC. Then my cheap volt meter from Harbor Freight started to act up, left in the sun when I setting up. So I was done for the day. It took all day for that thing to calm down checked late after seems to be working. I have a doctor’s appointment in town to see what next test they are running on me. And I will have to buy a new one or I should say a better one.
SO I had printed out the 0088-3 of the WP’s, so I figured the protective control connecter was off see what happens. I already had the battery switch on. I did turn the battery switch off, wasn’t sure about hooking that connecter back up with power and letting smoke come out. Went below and figured out what lines went where on the start switch leads for the tyranny. Must of lucked on my guess, got in and turned the battery switch on (had ready checked the lights on the dash in the WP section for them and there were on) turned the starter switch and low air lights and nose. Yeah. Fired right up, turned it off and on a least half a dozen times, no problems at all. Fired her back up to build the battery charge up. While I was down there I found a ground wire lose to a wire that goes to the top of the tyranny. See photos. I went back to check everything and saw the ground was touching the tyranny. I though could this lose ground be the problem. So I left it hanging, went up and started the truck and she started right up. So that wasn’t the problem.
Anyone knows what that is for and should to be grounded? Didn’t want to hook it up and mess something up. I figured needs to be but, I though I check with you wise people first.
I went out to check the type of alternator I had tonight and tried the truck again fired right up. Turned it off several more times and no problem. So the at the test of 0088-3 Condition/indication: has: does the engine start if starter lock out is reset
In my case it did. So it said to replace the alternator. I have a 60 amp when I checked it.
So do I need a new alternator, or did that reset solve the problem? I will still do the test on the PBC when I get a new multi meter to be sure. I think I will go get water in a few days and see what happens when I get her home. See if the bouncing around on the road does anything. Though I problem won’t turn the engine off till I get home, then do s a series of restarts and see what happens.
One last thing when I was getting the power to come back on when I threw the starter switch I heard at least half a dozen so clicking from a solenoid before I started it, been doing this. I am guess the starter. Is that a problem or not.

Thanks Guys for your help.Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000105 EndHTML:0000009098 StartFragment:0000002353 EndFragment:0000009062Well here is what transpired for today and of course as usual it was a CF. Got my cd out I bought for the TM’s and put in a PC a friend have given me recently. Booted up fine as I am looking for what you sent me, in went into time out mode. Rebooted it again and did the same. Tried in my Mac book pro and the CD won’t load, great another fun filled day of everything going to ****. I am a Mac guy, my I-Mac went dead a few months back and my Mac book pro is on its last legs too it seems like. Got both back in 2006 when I was going to school in the photo program as refurbish from with the student discount. So I went to SS site and down the TM 9-2320-272-23-1 for there after trying to figure which one I need. Got the PDF put into the external hard, did not want to slow my machine anymore with a big file. See where this going don’t you. Of course later I need my laptop there so I could follow the WP’s. So I had to print out the sheets for the ones I was following.
Checked the continuity of the start switch leads and they showed 10 on the ohm reading. That was good, though for our readers there don’t do the stupid thing I did. Mark your cables that are to together with tape so you know which ones with its mate. I didn’t catch that till 20 seconds later after I did it. My baby was had a full restoration in 2012 at Red River Depot and everything under there was painted with black under coating including the wiring tags for each line.
So I followed the TM 83, 85 and 88 Checked the battery voltage, it was around 23.5, all the cables are good and tight, did all of that when I put the new batteries in about a couple weeks before I went down. Cleaned up the wire layout and marked all the lines with tape as to what was what.
Tried checking the voltage meter (I did some screen captures for you of what WP I was using) wound up on my head trying to find terminal V and W gave up after a while, that started my head pounding and being a very big silver back, there is not a lot room for me to fit with the heater and shifter column in the way. Couldn’t find the terminals they were talking about. Just found the one wire going to the voltage meter. Although I could probably use a new voltmeter there, it’s always giving screwy reading when I turn the battery switch on and the start switch. Gives me full charged reading when running though.
So next I was going to do the page 0085-7 of the TM ‘s, got my multi meter ready strip a old antilog volt meter of its probes for this test. When I took the protector connecter cable off the PBC box there was no thump, so that test told me it was good for the PBC. Then my cheap volt meter from Harbor Freight started to act up, left in the sun when I setting up. So I was done for the day. It took all day for that thing to calm down checked late after seems to be working. I have a doctor’s appointment in town to see what next test they are running on me. And I will have to buy a new one or I should say a better one.
SO I had printed out the 0088-3 of the WP’s, so I figured the protective control connecter was off see what happens. I already had the battery switch on. I did turn the battery switch off, wasn’t sure about hooking that connecter back up with power and letting smoke come out. Went below and figured out what lines went where on the start switch leads for the tyranny. Must of lucked on my guess, got in and turned the battery switch on (had ready checked the lights on the dash in the WP section for them and there were on) turned the starter switch and low air lights and nose. Yeah. Fired right up, turned it off and on a least half a dozen times, no problems at all. Fired her back up to build the battery charge up. While I was down there I found a ground wire lose to a wire that goes to the top of the tyranny. See photos. I went back to check everything and saw the ground was touching the tyranny. I though could this lose ground be the problem. So I left it hanging, went up and started the truck and she started right up. So that wasn’t the problem.
Anyone knows what that is for and should to be grounded? Didn’t want to hook it up and mess something up. I figured needs to be but, I though I check with you wise people first.
I went out to check the type of alternator I had tonight and tried the truck again fired right up. Turned it off several more times and no problem. So the at the test of 0088-3 Condition/indication: has: does the engine start if starter lock out is reset
In my case it did. So it said to replace the alternator. I have a 60 amp when I checked it.
So do I need a new alternator, or did that reset solve the problem? I will still do the test on the PBC when I get a new multi meter to be sure. I think I will go get water in a few days and see what happens when I get her home. See if the bouncing around on the road does anything. Though I problem won’t turn the engine off till I get home, then do s a series of restarts and see what happens.
One last thing when I was getting the power to come back on when I threw the starter switch I heard at least half a dozen so clicking from a solenoid before I started it, been doing this. I am guess the starter. Is that a problem or not.

Thanks Guys for your help.-1-2.jpg-2-2.jpgBattery meter.jpgPC Box.jpgStarter lockout.jpg
 

Scar59

Active member
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The multiple clicking when the battery switch (not start switch) is turned on is the ABS system running a self test.
 

Shotgun

New member
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Location
Dewey AZ
Thanks for the info: like said I will continue testing the PCB when I get a new meter. Just not sure about replacing the alternator after doing the page 0083 in TM 9-2320-272-23-1 test. Like I said, seems to be charging fine, belt tension is good. I will post more either tonight or tomorrow after I get water. Big test is after I drive there and back with the truck bouncing around and see if that affects anything. Will do multi starting to see if anything happens. Thank
 
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