Won't start after gel up.

[Kellyboy]

It has been a miserable cold couple of months in the north east and my m10008 has been down while installing a lift in between freezing temps. I start it once a week and it always fires up and runs great even when below zero. I went to start it last week at 0 degrees and it fired right up, ran for a minute, then sputtered a couple times and died. It would not restart so I figured it was gelled up. Trying to start it today at 34 degrees with no luck. I can see fuel in the line going to the lift pump and have verified the glow plugs are operating properly. What I am wondering is if you have a gel up is it normal to have to kill the new batteries in order to restart after thawing? Also my ip does click when I reconnect the pink wire.

 

[98G]

The remix point, or the point at which the fuel again becomes useable is higher than just above the gel point.

For example , if we assume that the gel point for your particular blend is 10 degrees, then the remix temperature may be as high as the mid 30's.

The pour temperature will be somewhere between these two temps.

My best guess says warming it up more will fix it. When big trucks are towed in for gelled fuel they get put in a closed shop in front of a salamander heater and warmed thoroughly.

 

[Kellyboy]

The remix point, or the point at which the fuel again becomes useable is higher than just above the gel point.

For example , if we assume that the gel point for your particular blend is 10 degrees, then the remix temperature may be as high as the mid 30's.

The pour temperature will be somewhere between these two temps.

My best guess says warming it up more will fix it. When big trucks are towed in for gelled fuel they get put in a closed shop in front of a salamander heater and warmed thoroughly.

Thanks 98. Good to know. The stock filter has been removed and there is a clear inline filter with a clear line to the ip (done by PO) I have the parts to install a spin on filter just haven't got around to it. There was a air bubble in the clear line that moved freely up and under the air filter so it's not still gelled.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

Diesel fuel and cold temp and filters.

Diesel fuel will what's called GEL at a certain cold point. This will vary with formulation, additives, etc...

The other inherent issue are the filters. When diesel fuel gels, and it runs through a filter, you get a wax paraffin. So, not only is the diesel fuel gelled, you have a wax paraffin plugging the filter as well.

Treat diesel fuel for required use temp.

Be aware of your diesel fuel system, and filters.

The diesel fuel itself might not be gelled at the moment. You will still have a issue with good flow due to the wax paraffin buildup in the filter.

 

[BKubu]

I suggest some Power Service Diesel 911 (along the lines of what Daybreak recommended). Change the filters and go half and half (half 911 and half fuel) in the filter...then add the appropriate amount to your tank. The instructions are on the bottle.

 

[Kellyboy]

Howdy,

Diesel fuel and cold temp and filters.

Diesel fuel will what's called GEL at a certain cold point. This will vary with formulation, additives, etc...

The other inherent issue are the filters. When diesel fuel gels, and it runs through a filter, you get a wax paraffin. So, not only is the diesel fuel gelled, you have a wax paraffin plugging the filter as well.

Treat diesel fuel for required use temp.

Be aware of your diesel fuel system, and filters.

The diesel fuel itself might not be gelled at the moment. You will still have a issue with good flow due to the wax paraffin buildup in the filter.

Did not know about the wax buildup. Good to know. My rig literally has a small engine clear bulb filter on it. Lol. Put about 6k on it the year I have owned it and never a sputter. Will try a new one to see if it remedies my problem and install the spin on and electric pump when it warms up. Only going electric because a turbo is in the future and plan on the oil drain going to a mechanical pump block off.

 

[rodent]

Try to purge the system. I've had to that a couple times. Also had my fuel filter clog up on cold morning and had to replace it which was overdue. 911 additive should help. I don't have an engine heater but I have used a small space heater on the fenderwell next to brake master. The way it was angled it was not close to any lines or wires. Ran the power cable under the radiator and shut the hood. Next morning had to be 80 degrees in the engine bay and the engine started right up after I pulled the heater and cord.

 

[nyoffroad]

That 911 in the red bottle is great stuff, I had to use it once on my big truck when the filter gelled up just after getting on the highway. I unscrewed the plug on the top of the filter housing and poured in a few ounces and I could see it dissolving the wax crystals immediately.
Now that you ran the engine with the filter plugged it might be the same as running it out of fuel, so pull the pink wire off the IP and then open the fuel/air bleeder and turn engine over till fuel comes out then close bleeder and replace wire and start engine.

 

[doghead]

Red for emergencies, white for all winter treatment (gelling).

Gray for algae treatment.

Must use white all winter.

 

[Kellyboy]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!! Pulled the line off the down stream side of my inline bulb filter and cranked the motor. Fuel flowed into the bottle but it was grey. Replaced it with another and it was more fuel and clear. Put it back together and killed the batteries 5 times trying to start without a sputter. Hooked a hand pump siphon inline with suction on the ip return port and the pressure side hooked to the return hose and pumped away until he gurgling sound stopped. Put it back to normal and she fired right up. Thanks every one for sharing your knowledge.

 

[doghead]

So, now if you treat your fuel with the white bottle of 911, you won't have this problem again.

 

[Kellyboy]

So, now if you treat your fuel with the white bottle of 911, you won't have this problem again.

Definitely will. Now knowing about the waxing of the filter in the cold I can't believe I was never left stranded on the side of the road in the -20 weather it has been run. Especially with the little bulb filter meant to be on a gasser before the carb. Just goes to show how tolerant theese old j codes are. Gotta get the spin on mod done for sure. Thanks Doghead.

 

[rsh4364]

Not sure if it is true but a local diesel mechanic told me to avoid power source additives for 6.2s, he claimed that it strips the lubricity out of the fuel, I only run stanadyne or howes additive now.

 

[Kellyboy]

Not sure if it is true but a local diesel mechanic told me to avoid power source additives for 6.2s, he claimed that it strips the lubricity out of the fuel, I only run stanadyne or howes additive now.

Not a diesel pro by any means but it seems to me all 3 are just a cetane booster. I guess any time you add theese you are changing the lube/accelerant ratio. Maybe one has more lubricating elements to it. Appreciate you sharing what you have been told but I can't help but wonder if your local mechanic may have fell subject to a smooth salesman. Anyone have any knowledge of this?

 

[TGP (IL)]

Not a diesel pro by any means but it seems to me all 3 are just a cetane booster. I guess any time you add theese you are changing the lube/accelerant ratio. Maybe one has more lubricating elements to it. Appreciate you sharing what you have been told but I can't help but wonder if your local mechanic may have fell subject to a smooth salesman. Anyone have any knowledge of this?

Everyone has there favorites.
It's like a Dodge, Ford, Chevy conversation.
I have used Power Service for over 40 years and works for me.

911, "Red bottle" is only used once the fuel has gelled.
Power service Fuel Supplement, "White bottle" is used at every fill up to prevent gelling.

The other grey bottles are Diesel clean or Biocide and used when necessary for treating dirty contaminated systems.

All Power Service products have Lubricity additives.

Bottom line use a quality Diesel fuel treatment for winter driving and double the dose when treating Bio Diesel.

Tom

 

[Matt5]

...white bottle of 911...

Does not exist. Power Service 911 is 911 and in a red bottle, Power Service winter is winter and in a white bottle.

As for OP... PS last studies I have found is not great for lube compared to opti lube (and some others). When it gets cold, like 10F and lower... I personally run some PS + opti lube *summer* (due to the cost I'm just being cheap they make a winter additive as well). Opti lube gives me the lubrication I want (cheap), and the PS does the anti gel. PS ordered online form rural king was super cheap and they sell 1000 gallon jugs YMMV on cost. Another bonus in my book is you can buy opti lube with a pump and bottles vs any other additive I've seen is just dump and guess.

Now power service *911* yes, VERY bad for the fuel system and does strip the lubricity from the fuel... and as you can see, people somehow mix them up and that may be what happened to the mechanic as well. However as its name states... 911... emergency use only, using it once or twice won't matter...

 

[doghead]

Sorry, I mistakenly referred to the Power Service name as 911.

Here's their site. Good info there. https://powerservice.com/find-my-product/

 

[Daybreak]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!! Pulled the line off the down stream side of my inline bulb filter and cranked the motor. Fuel flowed into the bottle but it was grey. Replaced it with another and it was more fuel and clear. Put it back together and killed the batteries 5 times trying to start without a sputter. Hooked a hand pump siphon inline with suction on the ip return port and the pressure side hooked to the return hose and pumped away until he gurgling sound stopped. Put it back to normal and she fired right up. Thanks every one for sharing your knowledge.

Howdy,

You might not be done.
You might of had some gelling, some wax in the filters. BUT, it sounds like you have water in your system.

Condensation is a problem with weather changes. Best to keep the tank full, and treated for conditions. Make use of the fuel drains for water.

 

[usmcpatriot]

During the winter, I use kerosene mix with diesel. Usually put two gallons of Kero to a full tank. My cucv starts all the time, as long as I go by the starting procedures. Good luck going forward.