Work on the War Pig continues

[hughscpa]

Now that is a nerf bar!! Looks great and keep the pictures coming. I can't wait to see the bed.

 

[maddawg308]

Schedule 40 is usually associated with PVC. Those are a bit stronger than drainage pipe, however!

Awesome truck!

 

[mudguppy]

Schedule 40 is usually associated with PVC. Those are a bit stronger than drainage pipe, however!

Awesome truck!

actually, schedule is a standard denotation of steel pipe - not owned by PVC. standard iron pipe, sch 40 steel, and 40S stainless have a wall thickness of 0.280".

iron XS, sch 80, 80S are 0.432"
sch 120 steel is 0.562"
sch 160 steel is 0.718"
stainless can be had as thin as 5S = 0.109" and iron pipe can be had as thick as 0.864".

so by noting the schedule of the steel pipe, i know that pipe has an outside diameter of 6.625" and internal diameter of 6.065".


engineering class aside, those "nerf bars" are wicked sweet - i may have to copy....

sooooo, fuel tank's going in the bed?

 

[russ81]

LOL...the engineering class gets an A+. Yes, those pipes are 6.625 O.D.

Haven't yet decided on fuel tank location. I was thinking about making a saddle tank going betwee the frame rails and around the drive line for the main tank, and then side mounts behind the "nerf" bars. Could hold a lot of go juice by having three tanks. Couple of transfer pumps, and across the country with out stoping I could go.

 

[russ81]

As a side note........PVC stands for Poly Vinyl Chloride..........I've worked for GE Plastics setting up their machines that make the raw product.

 

[timntrucks]

learn something eveyday. glad to know i can still learn something haha. that trucks is sweet. be sure to keep the pics coming

 

[dburt]

I'm anxious to hear how the Cummins swap-in goes. Do we assume you are going to use the tranny out of the Dodge PU also? How will you mate it to the transfer case? Let's hear a little more about the mechanics of the drivetrain!

 

[russ81]

I've got an NV4500 I'm going to mate to the motor in the next couple of weeks. The transfer case is divorced, so I just need the correct mating flange on the output shaft of the transmission.
I'm afraid I'm going to blow the transmission to pieces, but NV tells me it will hold together. I'm looking at bumping up the 5.9 to around 500hp. Better injectors, chip, intake, and of course an open exhaust. I've looked at "fire ringing," but I'm not real sure what that is all about. Maybe later a turbo upgrade.
I measured everything up this weekend, and started designing my motor mounts. I'm going to use the factory mounting points, so parts will be easier to find, and cheaper to buy. I'll just lay out the frame, drill the holes, and mount it all up. My aim is to set the rear of the motor in the exact spot that the original motor was setting at.

 

[iwantmud]

I dont see you having any prob with that NV4500. Get you a TS performance module, 80-100 HP injectors, and inline fuel pump and you should be good to go. Cant wait to see the whole truck done.

 

[BFR]

looks great. you could plumb the nerf bars into the air system for extra capacity.

 

[mudguppy]

please please please document well - i will be doing the exact same thing as soon as i get ahold of my [bobbed] deuce!!! in fact, the donor dodge is in the shop getting a 0.040" overhaul with some go-fast goodies as we speak!! i've even already picked out the PTO i need for the winch.

my set-up is a 12valve, so all hp will be mechanical. but i also planned on using the nv4500 - should be a fairly simple install. i also plan on doing the 24v - 12v conversion at the same time.
at those levels, you won't need to worry about fire-ringing yet. and, you're going to need a bigger turbo to get to 500hp unless you're going commonrail right outta the box. the stock turbo on 2nd gen cummins will be waaay out of their map range at those levels.

as if i needed another, i'll be watching this thread closely...

 

[russ81]

you're going to need a bigger turbo to get to 500hp unless you're going commonrail right outta the box. the stock turbo on 2nd gen cummins will be waaay out of their map range at those levels.


Sounds like you know a lot more about these engines then I do. What turbo should I be looking for? I know there are a lot of different models, sizes, yada yada yada. I have no clue which way to go from here on that engine. I know there are a lot of duel set ups, but I don't know if that is the way to go or not.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[russ81]

looks great. you could plumb the nerf bars into the air system for extra capacity.

I am absolutely planing on doing just that. Along with the front and rear bumpers of course.

 

[mudguppy]

well, i just realized that you said you have an '03 cummins, which is a 3rd generation 5.9 with commonrail (CR) fuel system. the CR is the easiest to get big power out of, so 500hp may be doable w/ injectors and a programmer, though it may be a little on the hot side.

honestly, i've only had my cummins for about a year now and i'm still learning all the mods to do on the 12valve (totally different animal than yours - all mechanical). i haven't gotten far enought to start upgrading turbos....yet. but even if i have, i couldn't recommend a turbo for a CR.

i hang out and do my learnin' over at the diesel garage; here is the dodge forum - Dodge Diesel & Truck Discussion - TheDieselGarage.com. these guys can definitely point you straight on upgrades for the CR.

i had planned to take my motor to about 350hp/750tq for starters, before i need a turbo. that will keep it streetable w/out much lag and excessive smoke. after that, twin turbos and bigger injectors are planned.

 

[Nomercy]

so how you gonna wire that thing? its gonna be not fun if you try to use the stock wiring harness, im pretty sure you have to use the stock gauge cluster. if i were you id go to painlessperformance.com and get their wiring harness. Painless Performance: Cummins Diesel Engine Harness 5.9L pretty sure you can use programers and boxes with that. as for the ECM you said the truck you got was an auto, not 100% sure but you may need an ECM out of a manual truck. i cant recall if the dodges had a seperate computer for the trannys and all the ECMs were the same. should save you alot of headache.

how many miles were on the cummins? if it was around 100k id pull the injectors and have them rebuild. for some reason dodge only uses a 10 micron fuel filter when Bosch (injector mfg) recomends a 2 micron fuel filter to keep from damaging the injectors...they will start to leak down causing problems. and hey while ya got em out might as well replace the tips with some 90hp ones also why not go with an NV5600 that would have come behind the 03? check out southbend cluthes for your clutch, and hydrulic needs

this thing will be bad ass get some vids! the stance on this thing looks perfect to me. perfect size tire to fill out the wheel well, just the way i like it. how do the tires clear when turning?

 

[mudguppy]

i'm don't know why you'd need the painless wiring harness - you have the donor truck with ecm and stock harness. people are doing common rail swaps left and right without getting a swap-harness. either stock mechanical or aftermarket mechanical or electrical gauges can be used.

also, you could use an nv5600 if you wanted, but note that it is no longer being made and parts are very rare and expensive as it was only in production for about 5 (4?) years. i would recommend the 4500 (5spd) and the zf6 or newer getrag if you want a 6 spd. or, you could just go w/ a medium duty trans.

also, i've been doing some basic planning on my swap as well. i'd be curious to hear/see what your plans are for running the air compressor. i was thinking of 3 different scenarios:

1. stock multi-fuel compressor adapted to cummins
2. after market or other adapted (via belt drive) to cummins
3. standard compressor found in medium trucks run off of cummins accessory gear

there's pros and cons of each but was interested in your thoughts. i'll need to run a power steering pump in addition, but can be easily used in any of the compressor scenarios.

 

[russ81]

when I purchased my parts truck it was with the intention of using all the factory parts I could. That way I was saving my self the hassle of trying to mix and match parts. I have checked into the Painless Wiring systems, and read their instruction manuals. It states that I have to "Flash" the computer to allow the use of a non electrical manual transmission. I'm not sure what this means, and any help you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated.

The engine has 70,000 miles on it, and I have been planing on installing the higher HP injectors.

I went with the NV4500 mainly because of:
1. Track record - history
2. parts availability

As far as the compressor goes I am still in the planing stages. I have thought of quite a few different set-up's, but have not decided which way to go yet.

I am seriously considering using the "Hydroboost" break system that come on the dodge.
ANY THOUGHT ???????

 

[mudguppy]

they'll "flash" the computer so it is no longer looking for input from the transmission or attempting to control it any more. flash = reprogram. there are other places that can reprogram your ecu besides painless.

like i said, i don't think you'll need a painless harness, but you will need someone to reprogram your ecu so it doesn't get pissed when it can't find the transmission. or, as already suggested, you could use an ecu from a truck that had a manual tranny behind it.

as long as the ecm has all the inputs from sensors that it had when stock, i think you will be alright w/out the swap harness. then you just have to tap into the sending units or add more for hooking up dash guages.

however, if you have the money, a painless wiring harness would make it, well, you know......... painless.

i agree w/ you on the tranny selection. get a good southbend clutch while you're at it - they are the best. depending on your horsepower goals, maybe you should consider a larger input shaft (i don't remember where the break point is... 600?). also, regardless of horsepower goals, get the 5th gear nut upgraded.

yep - option #4 in my book was also to go with a hydroboost system and get rid of the air requirement for brakes. but, i'm just not sure if the pain will be worth it. since i don't even have my truck yet and it's been so long since i've seen the master cylinder set-up, i really can't even say how well retrofitting the dodge MC to the stock set-up will be. i don't think it will be hard. and if it's really straight forward, i guess i'd go for it. my donor truck is a '96 - vacuum assist, so i'd have to find another donor or buy new.

i was initially thinking that a gear-driven compressor would be best and most reliable. but i also think it would be overkill for an air-over system and contribute a lot of parasitic drag that wouldn't be required. most gear driven compressors will allow me to bolt my steering pump on behind, so it wouldn't be a big issue.

and this is about as far as i've gotten.

 

[Nomercy]

what about using the stock Sanden AC compressor for your air requirements. they are 100% duty cycle, you already have one and they will flow a decent about of air. i dont own a duece, but i figured they didnt have air brakes because you dont need a CDL, if they do then i dont know how much air they use or if the sanden can put out the air it needs. only thing with them is you have to intall an oiler before the inlet so you dont burn them up, but thats not a big deal as long as you remember to add oil

as for the NV5600 comment i just thought he might like one more gear and they were avalible behind that year cummins. the NV4500 is a stout tranny for sure though, and cant go wrong with it. not sure how much they deal with Diesel applications but Advance Adapters can mate just about any tranny to any motor and should be able to help you out.

also i could have sworn that you either had to have the stock gauges or spend mucho money to reprogram the ECU to talk to a seperate set of gauges to get the stock wiring harness to work. thought it had to comunicate with the gauges to know whats going on and cycle the CE light, i could be wrong though, its been known to happen once in a while. thats why i recomended the painless harness. im sure you can make the stock one work, just may take a little bit off fingering it out. im sure the painless harness isnt cheep either.

 

[mudguppy]

what about using the stock Sanden AC compressor for your air requirements....

yeah, that's one of the options. just would have to figure out a mounting arrangemet. sometimes, that sounds easier than it actually is. but definitely an option.

...as for the NV5600 comment i just thought he might like one more gear and they were avalible behind that year cummins. ...

i agree, just that the 56' is out of production. it was available that year and is a plenty strong tranny. if i didn't already have a 4500 for my [future] swap, i'd use it if i could find one cheap. if not, i'd go after a zf6 - that's the best shifting [light duty] tranny i've ever driven.

... im sure the painless harness isnt cheep either.

if it says "painless" on it, it ain't cheap. they make wicked good stuff, but cost to benefit ratio is argueable.