Wrecker wishlist of mods

[73m819]

Thats the reason why I'm wondering if it's possible to affordably make the 45k drag winch free spool. Being an m816 everything is PTO powered instead of hydraulic (besides the crane) so kinda limited to electric winches. Unless the Tcase PTO is capable of powering both the crane hydraulic pump and rear winch at the same time, then could add another valve bank to power a small hydraulic winch.

YES both can be powered at the same time.

 

[Csm Davis]

YES both can be powered at the same time.

But it would be a lot of work to get hydraulics to anywhere besides the boom, the pump on an 816 and all the hydraulics ride on the boom carriage.

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[red]

How difficult/expensive would it be to relocate the hydraulic pump down to the chassis like they did on the m936? Would make it easier to add hydraulics to the m816 and get rid of the **** CV joint PTO shaft

 

[wcuhillbilly]

Or,,,, what Im toying with, is swap in a 10spd Eaton/Fuller and run a "wet kit" (hydraulic pto) off the bottom and supply the front winch and rear winch with hydraulics. Leaving the T-case PTO to power the crane assembly with its current config.- or a seperate wet kit for the crane, as in a hydraulic motor to power the crane motor..... confused yet......??????

I have a 13 spd laying around, but the conundrum is that the 13,15,18s all have an extra housing on the rear of the trans that prohibit them from replacing the stock 5 spd. without moving the T case back about 10" to alow a short shaft to be built. this requires shortening all the linkage/shafts related to the crane config.... The 10 supposedly doesnot have that extra housing and is short enough to fit with a really really short shaft, as in ujoint/ujoint.
by swapping in the OTR trans. you can keep these old 855s in there powerband and run a commercially availible wet kit for hydraulics with incab air engagement.
sorry, typing with a smashed finger courtessy of an 855 head is very painful.

 

[red]

The transmission mounted hydraulic PTO's dont move enough fluid to power the crane at full capacity.

Rear winch is powered off the PTO splitter that's after the tcase, so no need to move it to a transmission PTO unless you want to get rid of that splitter.

When my trans dies (not for a long time hopefully) I'd like to upgrade to the CAT 7155 trans in mine to achieve the same goal of keeping the 855 engine in it's power band. Combined with a turbo/jakes it should be a big improvement.

Looking like a capstan winch might be the best option for the 816. Have replacement 3/4" cable for my rear winch that needs to be installed, will be nice to have good cable on at least 1 winch.

 

[zebedee]

But it would be a lot of work to get hydraulics to anywhere besides the boom, the pump on an 816 and all the hydraulics ride on the boom carriage.

..... so hows about changing the drum on the boom winch - which is fluted, single layer only and reeeeeaaaly short on rope - to a smaller diameter thus multi layer capacity, then you can use it (pop off the crane hook), to pull out the drag winch. You can reach the crane levers from the drag winch control position..... Plus you have the "feel" of a hyd winch so can 'feather' the feed in to match the pay out of the big one.

 

[Csm Davis]

How difficult/expensive would it be to relocate the hydraulic pump down to the chassis like they did on the m936? Would make it easier to add hydraulics to the m816 and get rid of the **** CV joint PTO shaft

Probably easier and cheaper to swap the whole rear bed . And I feel your love of the =%'&+x>! CV joint.

The transmission mounted hydraulic PTO's dont move enough fluid to power the crane at full capacity.

That's not true, it can be setup off the transmission just the military pump setup on a 939 won't do it.

Rear winch is powered off the PTO splitter that's after the tcase, so no need to move it to a transmission PTO unless you want to get rid of that splitter.
Looking like a capstan winch might be the best option for the 816. Have replacement 3/4" cable for my rear winch that needs to be installed, will be nice to have good cable on at least 1 winch.

Yes if you don't want to rework the whole thing the capstan winch will probably be the best setup for a 816.

..... so hows about changing the drum on the boom winch - which is fluted, single layer only and reeeeeaaaly short on rope - to a smaller diameter thus multi layer capacity, then you can use it (pop off the crane hook), to pull out the drag winch. You can reach the crane levers from the drag winch control position..... Plus you have the "feel" of a hyd winch so can 'feather' the feed in to match the pay out of the big one.

Yeah you could do that but would require 2 people to run it as you can't really reach both controls at the same time, but the capstan winch will probably require someone to man it to be effective. I have studied the one man operation of a 816 rear winch and I just don't see an easy way to get it right. Other than a 936 bed swap.

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[red]

..... so hows about changing the drum on the boom winch - which is fluted, single layer only and reeeeeaaaly short on rope - to a smaller diameter thus multi layer capacity, then you can use it (pop off the crane hook), to pull out the drag winch. You can reach the crane levers from the drag winch control position..... Plus you have the "feel" of a hyd winch so can 'feather' the feed in to match the pay out of the big one.

Hadn't thought about using the crane's winch. Likely the cheapest option and provides the benefit of being able to use the crane hoist to pick up items that are sitting far below ground level (like off the edge of a cliff for example). I think 1 person can operate both controls pretty well since it's only the clutch control lever by the rear winch controls that needs to be manipulated. Maybe rig up another clutch lever by the crane controls with a pair of air QD hookups, that way you're sitting in the crane control area and a bit more protected than the original location right behind the winch.

Yea I am not a fan of the discontinued PTO cv shaft hahaha. Only ways I can think of to get rid of that shaft is to either 1: cut out that frame crossmember that sits above the extension coming out of the splitter so a longer, less steep PTO shaft can be made. Or 2: swap the PTO outputs. Have the crane use the rear winch PTO and the rear winch use the lower PTO output.

 

[Csm Davis]

Hadn't thought about using the crane's winch. Likely the cheapest option and provides the benefit of being able to use the crane hoist to pick up items that are sitting far below ground level (like off the edge of a cliff for example). I think 1 person can operate both controls pretty well since it's only the clutch control lever by the rear winch controls that needs to be manipulated. Maybe rig up another clutch lever by the crane controls with a pair of air QD hookups, that way you're sitting in the crane control area and a bit more protected than the original location right behind the winch.

Yea I am not a fan of the discontinued PTO cv shaft hahaha. Only ways I can think of to get rid of that shaft is to either 1: cut out that frame crossmember that sits above the extension coming out of the splitter so a longer, less steep PTO shaft can be made. Or 2: swap the PTO outputs. Have the crane use the rear winch PTO and the rear winch use the lower PTO output.

You can't use the crane if you declutch for the rear winch to stop so it still wouldn't work well sorry I keep throwing kinks in your ideas.
On the CV shaft I think if you ditch the CV shaft and the box it attaches to, you could run it at a lot less angle and looks like it would run almost parallel to the other shaft. Just my two bits.

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[red]

The declutch should be fine unless I'm missing something. At the point you want the rear winch you stop being pulled out you would want to stop the crane winch. Then step out of the crane box, put the winch to neutral, clutch out, release the crane winch tension and rerig the line for the next pull. 1 person control/operation of the rear winch would be safely possible with that setup.

With the CV shaft even with removing the oil boxes at least 1 frame crossmember will have to be modified for clearance, the one right under the crane. One of these days I'll bring the wrecker by a driveshaft shop and have them see what angle is acceptable with a Ujoint shaft (or a modern CV shaft if necessary).

 

[wcuhillbilly]

The declutch should be fine unless I'm missing something. At the point you want the rear winch you stop being pulled out you would want to stop the crane winch. Then step out of the crane box, put the winch to neutral, clutch out, release the crane winch tension and rerig the line for the next pull. 1 person control/operation of the rear winch would be safely possible with that setup.

I attempted this 2 years ago when I first got my 816, hooked the rear winch chain to the crane hook and attempted to free spool and feed out the rear winch. things got funky fast and I ended up fraying my crane cable....... $350 worth of 1/2" cable rated at 20K later, I was re rigging my crane, then came the debacle of the cable end-known as a beckett in the crane world. the kind we have on these trucks isnt really made anymore..... thus I had to find/order a more commonly known version from Crosley, all in all 3 minutes of "lets see if this works" turned into $450 of damage.

 

[red]

Were you powering out the rear winch or just pulling on it? Straight line coming off the crane?

 

[Csm Davis]

The declutch should be fine unless I'm missing something. At the point you want the rear winch you stop being pulled out you would want to stop the crane winch. Then step out of the crane box, put the winch to neutral, clutch out, release the crane winch tension and rerig the line for the next pull. 1 person control/operation of the rear winch would be safely possible with that setup.

I attempted this 2 years ago when I first got my 816, hooked the rear winch chain to the crane hook and attempted to free spool and feed out the rear winch. things got funky fast and I ended up fraying my crane cable....... $350 worth of 1/2" cable rated at 20K later, I was re rigging my crane, then came the debacle of the cable end-known as a beckett in the crane world. the kind we have on these trucks isnt really made anymore..... thus I had to find/order a more commonly known version from Crosley, all in all 3 minutes of "lets see if this works" turned into $450 of damage.

The ends are readily available from the manufacturer Esmet and are not overly expensive.
http://products.esmet.com/category/clevis-fork-jaw-fittings

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[red]

Just had a 'light bulb' moment. Since the m816 has 4 PTO options, why not add a hydraulic wet kit. 2 on the trans and 2 from the transfercase PTO. The 2 from the transfercase are occupied by the crane and 45k winch, but only the front output from the transmission PTO is used, the rear is available.

Crawled underneath the M51a2 dump truck I've been parting out to check out the hydraulic pump that's used for the dump bed. Should be easy enough to move the pump to the wrecker frame and cut the PTO shaft down to fit. Couple hose quick connects, a reservoir, and controls rigged up and should be good to go.

(second pic didn't take for some reason so just the 1 pic)

 

[Csm Davis]

Just had a 'light bulb' moment. Since the m816 has 4 PTO options, why not add a hydraulic wet kit. 2 on the trans and 2 from the transfercase PTO. The 2 from the transfercase are occupied by the crane and 45k winch, but only the front output from the transmission PTO is used, the rear is available.

Crawled underneath the M51a2 dump truck I've been parting out to check out the hydraulic pump that's used for the dump bed. Should be easy enough to move the pump to the wrecker frame and cut the PTO shaft down to fit. Couple hose quick connects, a reservoir, and controls rigged up and should be good to go.

(second pic didn't take for some reason so just the 1 pic)
View attachment 646109

Now I think you are on to something, not sure about the dump truck pump (thought they were made into the valve and reservoir) but adding the rear output on the PTO could work if there is room for a pump. The reservoir can go behind the passenger fuel tank. A 925 tank and pump should work nice with a hydraulic winch bolted to the rear sounds like a great setup that one man might operate alone.

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[red]

You're right, the assembly is all bolted together. Should be able to separate the pump from the parts and make some flanges, making this idea possible.



And a pic from under the m816, looks like it will fit without much issue if the pump can be separated. Maybe even keep the valve with the pump and just separate the hydraulic tank.




Main reason I'm considering the dump truck pump is because I have one.

 

[zebedee]

Found a nasty little dirt trap...

So - whilst prepping the next mod in the RAEME conversion, I found the space/shelf behind the Oxy tank and under the spare wheel tray, was just packed with all kinds of damp dust, road grime and nothing in there was painted - kind of blocked in during original fabrication prior to paint shop..


mark cut and move. rough cutout exposes dirt trap.new floor piece marked with bottle positions

This space could be utilised though the spare tyre kinda makes access a bear.

For stock 816's, you might be able to clean this out with small hands...

 

[wcuhillbilly]

why not move the torch tanks to one side-dedicated- and cut out the other for an access panel under tire tray. I have never understood why they put one tank on each side forcing to connect with a long section of hose,,,, kinda risky to me.. no welding truck was ever set up that way...

Red, Like where your going with the dump truck stuff. just wish there was an easier solution to the golden driveshaft for the crane. talked to the driveshaft shop the other day and to put a 1330 (old GM type Ujoint)(easy off shelf replacement) cardone joint at each end of that shaft, build a new shaft, balance, and put a slip in there would be close to $1100.00 But we have to finish the yoke flange before the feasibility is worked out, to see if the angle of the dangle will be within 23* for the cardones. My machinist has the bearing cap and spud shaft built, just waiting on a seal and I can seal the bugger up and move the truck off the hill and measure for the shaft. But if I put in a 10or 18spd trans. I will be right back here again increasing this angle due to moving the power divider back..... again... the 936 method of a pump mounted to the back of the power divider and hoses running up to the crane drive is the ultimate way to go.

I will be sipping rum and coconut for about 2 weeks and will try to get some pics of what we came up with posted when I get back.

 

[Another Ahab]

I will be sipping rum and coconut for about 2 weeks and will try to get some pics of what we came up with posted when I get back.

You can't tell us that and not send us a pic of the view from your beach chair.

Give us all hope! Please. ONE stinkin' pic!!

Rum and coconut. For. Two. Whole. Weeks...

 

[wcuhillbilly]

You can't tell us that and not send us a pic of the view from your beach chair.

Give us all hope! Please. ONE stinkin' pic!!

Rum and coconut. For. Two. Whole. Weeks...




LOL,,, yeh, its been a "Heck" of a year so when the wife found a couple cheap round trip tickets to Honduras, I said screw it, book a vacation where I don't have to drive or finagle a haul to or from to help pay for the "Lampoons Christmas Vacation" that our trips to see family usually turn into... When she booked it back in august, everything penciled out fine,, now some unexpected bills-----M816 crane drive shaft-- and other things are making it somewhat stressful... But we're going to get the cheap beach trip out of the way before little soldier C and D come along.... cause as we all know,,,,, get married and your money goes away,,,,, have kids and the money you didn't have somehow also goes away....

besides... its a warm 20*F with 3-4" of white stuff on the ground here right now... supposed to be below 0*F next week when we fly out...