Wrecker wishlist of mods

[73m819]

As to the 36,000 lbs stuck deep in anything, according to fm 20-22 (Vehicle Recovery Operations), the needed pull is THREE TIMES the struck weight (108000 lbs ), now finding a 108000 lb dead man just may be a slight problem, also 20-22 states if possible, vehicle struck deep should have the front end elevated or chains attached between the frame and the front axle to help prevent the front axle from being ripped off.

What's the "20-22 states" comment mean , 73m819:

- Are you talking about passing a national resolution?!

"It will be illegal, subject to fines and prison-time, to get your wrecker stuck in a mudhole if it weighs more than 1/3 the pulling capacity of any other wrecker located in that same state. NO warnings."

fm 20-22 (Vehicle Recovery Operations

Ohhh.... "states".
, it'Yeahs a verb AND a noun. Got it!

This looks like a head game, I DO NOT play head games, that is for kids.You asked a question, I gave the answer, if YOU want to play head games, go play with someone else.

 

[red]

You can even make a semi trailer hitch for a wrecker, similar to the underlift fifth wheel coupling - that's how they recover a semi trailer when the tractor is wrecked and towed separately.......


All have their pluses and minuses - you just need to decide what your goals are.

Is this the kind of setup you mean (just heavier duty)?




I wonder how bad the leverage would be, making the front end lightweight.

One of the goals would be the ability to tow the box trailers like a m146 or m313/750. To do that there would have to be about 4 1/2 ft of clearance for the trailer to make a complete 180 degree turning radius, figuring the trailer is 8ft wide and some extra clearance for off camber situations.

Seems to be pretty close to the distance when doing a lift tow. Figuring in the wheelbase stretch on the m816 that just might work without having to add a 4th axle.

 

[73m819]

Is this the kind of setup you mean (just heavier duty)?

View attachment 665197


I wonder how bad the leverage would be, making the front end lightweight.

One of the goals would be the ability to tow the box trailers like a m146 or m313/750. To do that there would have to be about 4 1/2 ft of clearance for the trailer to make a complete 180 degree turning radius, figuring the trailer is 8ft wide and some extra clearance for off camber situations.

Seems to be pretty close to the distance when doing a lift tow. Figuring in the wheelbase stretch on the m816 that just might work without having to add a 4th axle.

The best would be the stretch to a 819 wheel base, the wheel base of a 819 is about 4.5' longer then the 816.

I just thought of another option, find a m920 (should be cheaper then a 819), put the 816 bed on the 920, should still have room for the 5th wheel, by doing this you will gain speed, a Cummins 400, better tires, you could run a pto off the transfer case as well as pto off the trans for a front winch, a power divider, and I think locking rears, better road gears, has a reinforced frame, ect., ect..

All the reasons above is why if I can find a negotiable m920 that I could get, I would have the 819s complete bed on it in a week.

 

[73m819]

If you go for number 4 axle, mod a front axle so you have SELF STEERING like a tag axle mixer, this WILL prevent a LOT tire scrub on the three rear axles, use the springs and all and duel up number 4, though if number 4 is only used to pull your camper modded trailer, then singles would be fine, for any load then duels.

This could be a pin on/off tag axle like heavy haulers use on there trucks to get more weight spreed, only in this case powered, all the lines would be quick disconnect, the drive line would stay connected to #4, It would take 20 minutes to connect/disconnect using the crane to move things around to make things easy.

I think a pin on 4th axle fifth wheel is a LOT better idea then stretching the frame or moving the rears back, it would be easier and cheaper, you could do this build STANDING UP instead 80% of the time UNDER the truck, 70% of the time you have a 100% 816, just the 30% of no rear crane use when the trailer/5th wheel is used. You could a well reinforced piece of m51 frame as a base for the pin on. One more thing to think about this idea, you WILL have the use of the crane for the build where the crane CAN NOT be used UNDER the truck.

 

[red]

A m920 would be great. For me I would leave it's rear winch on and remove the 5th wheel/ramps. Make a couple different platforms that I could pull onto the truck using it's rear winch/tail roller and swap out those platforms as needed (like my idea with moving the 816 rear winch). I can't afford to buy a 920 unless the wrecker is sold and it already has many of those upgrades (395's, air brakes, a locker, PTO options everywhere).


Moving the tandems back on the m816 will increase the wheelbase by about 3ft, which for me will be good. That puts them at the rear of the frame, fixes the lift tow pivoting issue, and although it will decrease my turning radius (yes this truck goes offroad) it won't decrease it as much as the long wheelbase trucks are.

Going to take part of the dump truck frame, attach the 5th wheel to it, and install it on a pair of hinges at the rear of the m816. Will take about 5-6ft of frame so the 5th wheel hitch is centered at 4 1/2ft and with the hinges I can pivot it up out of the way when lift towing.

 

[Another Ahab]

This looks like a head game, I DO NOT play head games, that is for kids.You asked a question, I gave the answer, if YOU want to play head games, go play with someone else.

No, no; you got me all wrong, 73m819; no head game going on here.

It's just my own confusion.

I just totally mis-read what you were saying because I wasn't paying attention (even though all the clues WERE there).
Don't mind me. I get stupid sometimes. My apology. DOH!

 

[zebedee]

Rotating Beacon Telescoping Post

Further to post 268 re:-

Any chance on getting more photos of the "wrecker tree" with the adjustable beacon light arrangement?

I used consecutive sizes of tube with 'make up bumps' rather than try find proper telescoping tube - probably only available as 'receiver/insert tube' which is way too heavy..

I'd like to do a "T" bar, same box tube and have two similar beacons - as a single one is obscured by the boom when fully lowered for traveling.

 

[zebedee]

Continuing bottle relocation build. (Last posted #272)


Adding clamp bolt tabs and joining the two segmented 'buckets' together. Added chain/hook for locker lid. Tabs and chain taken off of original.

Primed and a quick coat of A O green.

Welded in place.



Ran up the center clamp bolt in the lathe.



Cross reference for those interested:

US bottles discussion - http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?94709-Wrecker-welding-tanks-bottles&highlight=
Torch discussion - http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?107242-Torch-set-Wrecker-BII&highlight=
Wrecker body chains - http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?97074-wrecker-body-replacement-chains&highlight=
Walk around Aussie M816 -http://www.grubbyfingersshop.com/walkaround_galleries/M816%20Wrecker%20Walkaround/content/DSCF3145_large.html


Was wondering if this build should have it's own thread?????

 

[Another Ahab]

Continuing bottle relocation build. (Last posted #272)

View attachment 666557

How did you work the radius around the sheet metal; hammer it, in sections, around a post?

 

[zebedee]

How did you work the radius around the sheet metal; hammer it, in sections, around a post?

It was segmented on a brake. 1 1/2" flats.

 

[86m1028]

Holders look great !
What is your reasoning to relocate them frt to back instead of side by side ?
Are you keeping the spare in its original position or are you relocating it also.
Im a new wrecker owner & still cant get over the lack of storage on these trucks.

 

[zebedee]

...What is your reasoning to relocate them front to back instead of side by side ?

I am recreating a "typical"*** Australian Army M816 of the late '70's/early '80's and that is how they had them.

I have been researching the differences for a few years now and have gotten a good handle on most of the differences. There were many basic changes that all of them had. Lighting being one - to comply with Aussie road regs. Some things I won't be able to recreate - like tyres. They'd be way too expensive to ship over! Some mods were standard, there were in-service mods that were done later by each of the different units, so interpretation differed slightly. ***Problem being - there are/were probably no two the exact same as the Recovery Mechanics (wrecker drivers) were at liberty to modify as deemed necessary to enable them to do their specific job to their best ability.

Are you keeping the spare in its original position or are you relocating it also.
....

Spare stays put. A couple I have seen had an additional spare mounted next to the stowed boom support plate on the right.

 

[Another Ahab]

I am recreating a "typical"*** Australian Army M816 of the late '70's/early '80's and that is how they had them.

Is there any particular reason for that; like did you do Australian service?

 

[red]

What do yall think about adding a second winch to the crane? Noticed on most civi wreckers, especially on the rotators, that they have anywhere from 2-4 winches on the crane. Looks like there is plenty of room to mount one to the underside of the boom past the main winch (in this pic to the left of it).




Worthwhile mod? Opinions?

 

[zebedee]

Is there any particular reason for that; like did you do Australian service?

No service here - besides, I'm a Limey not an Ozzy!!

For years, whilst still in the UK, my mil veh collector/enthusiast affinity tended towards the British Army's recovery vehicles and displays by their museum connected servicemen. The Aussies are very closely mirrored in many aspects to the British military and have used a lot of British vehicles.

I had wanted to import a Foden EKA wrecker but current prices and spares availability are somewhat prohibitive.

I always liked the shape/look of the M62 style US trucks and after I had acquired an M816, I found out that the Aussie units used M543's and then M816's. When I noticed the differences - especially the adoption of the Holmes lift frame, I decided to research it fully, then realised I could recreate my own......

 

[zebedee]

What do yall think about adding a second winch to the crane? Noticed on most civi wreckers, especially on the rotators, that they have anywhere from 2-4 winches on the crane.

This would be a useful addition - assuming you are intending on competing in the local wrecker market, though the rear lift is only suited to military bumpers as opposed to an underlift.

Looks like there is plenty of room to mount one to the underside of the boom past the main winch.

There is, but do you want to add that much weight forward of the pivot point? We have previously discussed moving the stock hoist winch to the rear of the boom - above the tool boxes, which will add weight to the front of the truck and add to the overall capacity of the crane.

Worthwhile mod? Opinions?

I think the bigger issue, is the fluted drum which restricts the winch to one layer, which with a 3 part setup, will only allow the hook to reach the ground right under a full stick.

The optimum mod would be to change the fluted drum for a smaller diameter smooth one (massively increasing cable capacity/recovery reach), move it to the end of the boom, then add a second one above it or simply replace the whole setup with two smaller civi hyd winches mounted axially or stacked, at the end of the boom like civi rotators.

Time for another "concept" sketch maybe???????

 

[red]

This would be a useful addition - assuming you are intending on competing in the local wrecker market, though the rear lift is only suited to military bumpers as opposed to an underlift.


There is, but do you want to add that much weight forward of the pivot point? We have previously discussed moving the stock hoist winch to the rear of the boom - above the tool boxes, which will add weight to the front of the truck and add to the overall capacity of the crane.


I think the bigger issue, is the fluted drum which restricts the winch to one layer, which with a 3 part setup, will only allow the hook to reach the ground right under a full stick.

The optimum mod would be to change the fluted drum for a smaller diameter smooth one (massively increasing cable capacity/recovery reach), move it to the end of the boom, then add a second one above it or simply replace the whole setup with two smaller civi hyd winches mounted axially or stacked, at the end of the boom like civi rotators.

Time for another "concept" sketch maybe???????

Eventually I want to make some money with my m816. Near where I live there a 2 large offroad areas with rock crawling and some mud. There are also a couple rock quarries as well as farmers and construction areas in my immediate area for offroad recoveries. Talked to a few of the wrecker companies around here and they don't do offroad recoveries unless the client is just off a graded dirt road. So the niche market of offroad recoveries that the m816 is built for exists here plus there is the Forest service and BLM. Bear in mind I'm at least 1 year away from doing anything commercial.

Which leads to mods so the wrecker can better fill that job. A underlift is certainly more versatile with what it can pick up but creates a big ground clearance issue with offroad use.

I remember the discussion on relocating the stock crane winch to the rear of the boom. While similar I think this idea would be cheaper and require fewer mods. The idea going through my mind (and feel free to sketch up a concept) would be to mount the winch on the underside of the boom, after the stock winch. However the 2nd winch would be directed straight towards the end of the boom along the underside, not wrapping around to the topside as the stock winch cable does. With a pulley for it secured to the end of the outer boom, able to pivot like the civi wreckers. Could either be another stock winch or a different commercial one. A commercial one would have the ability to free spool.

 

[Another Ahab]

Eventually I want to make some money with my m816. Near where I live there a 2 large offroad areas with rock crawling and some mud. There are also a couple rock quarries as well as farmers and construction areas in my immediate area for offroad recoveries. Talked to a few of the wrecker companies around here and they don't do offroad recoveries unless the client is just off a graded dirt road. So the niche market of offroad recoveries that the m816 is built for exists here plus there is the Forest service and BLM. Bear in mind I'm at least 1 year away from doing anything commercial.

Is there any licensing tied into work like that; or if you got the equipment can you just have at it?

 

[red]

Is there any licensing tied into work like that; or if you got the equipment can you just have at it?

There is. Using the wrecker for offroad only recoveries helps keep the cost down with insurance. Then the typical LLC, commercial registration/inspection. My plans to have different bed platforms for the truck (wrecker, 5th wheel, dump, etc) will actually save me some money in that regard as long as the wrecker bed is only used for offroad recoveries. Touch the pavement with a vehicle on the hook and the costs go up alot.

I'll have more details/discussions on the bed swap plans in the 'rescued m816' thread.

 

[zebedee]